18:01:36 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:01:36 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/24-aria-apg-irc 18:01:38 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:01:40 present+ 18:01:47 Zakim has joined #aria-apg 18:01:56 rrsagent, make log public 18:02:19 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 18:03:27 CHAIR: Matt King 18:03:27 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-24,-2022-Agenda 18:03:30 present+ 18:03:36 rrsagent, make log public 18:03:41 Rich_Noah has joined #aria-apg 18:03:47 rrsagent, make minutes 18:03:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/24-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 18:04:01 present+ 18:04:27 agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-24%2C-2022-Agenda 18:05:42 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:08:06 TOPIC: Trage 18:08:13 TOPIC: Triage 18:08:32 Matt_King: wow there's a lot! 18:08:34 scribe: MarkMcCarthy 18:09:59 jamesn has joined #aria-apg 18:10:00 TOPIC: Guidance on usage of Authoring Practices Guide vs. editor’s drafts 18:10:03 present+ 18:10:23 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2356 18:10:34 jongunderson has joined #aria-apg 18:11:05 Matt_King: 2 issues in this, one on the intro and one on the editor's draft 18:11:23 present+ jongund 18:11:34 Matt_King: editor's draft part of this should be straightforward, eventually. 18:12:34 https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices 18:13:05 Matt_King: the rendering of the main branch (the current "editor's draft") will be replaced by our site here - when we update the main branch, it'll get pushed to the site by the W3C 18:13:14 jongunderson: how do we preview things? 18:13:20 Matt_King: PRs will have a netlify preview now 18:13:41 Matt_King: there's also a netlify preview for the main branch 18:14:03 Matt_King: not useful to point people to that though, it's only good for a day or two at atime 18:14:44 Matt_King: approximately this will all happen towards the end of june, but here's still planning to do 18:15:13 MarkMcCarthy: what about their introduction comment? 18:15:30 MarkMcCarthy: part of the plan is to create a TOC, separate the intro out, and make things a little more independent 18:15:42 s/MarkMcCarthy: part/Matt_King: part 18:17:34 TOPIC: carousel pattern should use localized "aria-roledescription"s for its elements 18:18:10 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2355 18:19:11 jongunderson: is that just saying the documentation should make mention of being localized? 18:19:18 Matt_King: isn't that the same as aria-label? 18:19:50 jamesn: aria-labels are usually announced in the PAGE's language, but roles etc. are annouced in the USER's language 18:20:18 jamesn: for roledescription, it can't be automagically translated. it's an ongoing problem with roledescription 18:21:00 Matt_King: i always thought it was localized the same way the page was 18:21:06 jamesn: yes AND it's the best we can do, really 18:21:27 jongunderson: does the roledescription replace the original name? 18:21:32 jamesn: it's supposed to 18:21:44 jamesn: but depends on the implementation 18:22:02 jamesn: many AT speak both languages 18:22:16 s/languages/roledescription and name 18:22:23 Matt_King: which kind of defeats the purpose 18:22:45 Matt_King: should we do something different with roledescription vs label? 18:22:59 jamesn: i think we're doing things right, but we could be clearer on dev's instructions 18:23:07 Matt_King: so maybe a note about that somewhere? 18:23:09 jamesn: yeah 18:23:11 jongunderson: i can do that 18:24:57 jongunderson: is there an issue changing index to examples in the menubar? 18:25:17 jongunderson: seems like people are having some trouble finding examples 18:25:53 jamesn: going through the patterns section is the way to go right? 18:26:04 jongunderson: yeah, but when looking for certain things (like date picker) there's no pattern 18:26:30 TOPIC: Improve readability - Keep line lengths optimal 18:26:39 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2354 18:26:57 jamesn: i kind of agree 18:27:07 MarkMcCarthy: it's very wall-of-text-y 18:27:12 jamesn: easily solved with CSS 18:27:16 jamesn: font could be bigger too 18:27:19 +1 18:27:27 s3ththompson: this might be from a page without a sidebar 18:27:46 s3ththompson: maybe needs a more consistent column, irrespective of the sidebar 18:27:54 Matt_King: i'll transfer this to the other repo 18:28:15 s3ththompson: this is probably part of the WAI template itself 18:28:47 Rich_Noah: it's not as apparent when there is a sidebar, but it's very noticable otherwise 18:28:57 jamesn: so we can file a bug vs. WAI template then? 18:29:00 group: ohyes 18:29:05 s/ohyes/oh yes 18:29:37 Matt_King: now issue 108 in the other repo 18:29:46 Matt_King: i'll ask Shawn about it in the issue 18:30:13 Matt_King: assign to Shawn? 18:30:15 jamesn: yep 18:30:37 TOPIC: Pattern page - add navigation for other patterns on the same level 18:30:56 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2353 18:30:59 Matt_King: i love this suggestion 18:31:09 Matt_King: belongs in the other repo, solved on template level 18:32:31 github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-aria-practices/issues/109 18:33:45 group: seems like a good plan 18:34:51 Matt_King: seems like a straightforward design enhancement 18:35:06 Matt_King: there's something similar in the WAI template, previous forward with a select box as well 18:35:29 love having select drop down 18:35:32 Matt_King: can Isaac work on this? 18:35:42 Rich_Noah: we'll get the issue into the backlog and schedule it 18:36:04 Matt_King: not urgent! 18:36:20 Matt_King: could be a Q3 change 18:37:36 TOPIC: Home page- The arialabel for the footer element is not descriptive. 18:37:48 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2349 18:38:09 Matt_King: this is also a template issue 18:38:42 jamesn: does it really need an aria-label? 18:38:51 Matt_King: there's multiple contentinfos 18:38:59 jamesn: and they're both landmarks? 18:39:01 Matt_King: yes 18:39:34 Matt_King: page content info has last changed, updated by, etc. it COULD be complimentary, but it is content info, in my opinion 18:40:22 jamesn: i'd almost prefer a single footer with two regions inside it - two footers seems wrong 18:40:42 jongunderson: i think so too, there should be one footer, one banner, etc. if they have subsections, use regions 18:41:05 jongunderson: two contentinfos seems odd - it's against our landmark guidance, too 18:41:24 Matt_King: it says if there's multiple, label them, not sure it's broken. 18:41:42 Matt_King: it's not super easy to combine them 18:41:48 jamesn: i get that - i just don't think it's optimal 18:41:57 jongunderson: +1 18:42:17 Matt_King: from an SR user, it's nice to know the page contentinfo has last update ddate, the site one has general info, etc 18:42:36 jongunderson: why not call it a "last updated" Region? 18:43:13 jamesn: right - you generally ignore contentinfo landmarks because they're generally useless. how often is there anything other than a site level one? if you didn't write the site, would you expect another one? 18:43:55 Matt_King: the rest of the WAI site has page contentinfo that contains last updated, by who, and acknowledgements 18:45:02 Matt_King: that info gets mixed up with really important info on our pages, like last updated and changelogs 18:45:11 jamesn: generally, this sounds like a template issue. can we punt to them? 18:45:44 Matt_King: this hyperspecific thing is a template issue 18:46:05 s/thing is/label thing is 18:46:27 Matt_King: i'm okay with the current label, but the site label could be enhanced. we could drive it 18:47:23 TOPIC: Homepage- The header element is nested inside the main element. 18:47:36 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2348 18:48:36 Matt_King: oh there's a header around an H1, which isn't needed. and yes, header inside a main element doesn't seem right 18:49:29 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria-apg 18:49:34 scribe: MarkMcCarthy 18:49:50 jongunderson: back in the XHTML days, the header element defined the heading structure itself 18:50:02 jongunderson: i think it's odd it's not being used to create a banner landmark though 18:50:16 jongunderson: i'd say move the header element to the top, leave the H1 alone 18:50:26 Matt_King: i think this belongs in the other repo too 18:51:02 jamesn: so what's the bug, then? 18:51:39 Matt_King: the H1 is wrapped in a header; exposed as a banner 18:51:56 jamesn: that's a firefox bug, it's scoped to main vs generic so it's not getting exposed right 18:52:23 A header element is intended to usually contain the section's heading (an h1–h6 element or an hgroup element), but this is not required. The header element can also be used to wrap a section's table of contents, a search form, or any relevant logos. 18:52:32 jongunderson: if they're using the headers this way, they're making banner landmarks 18:52:51 Matt_King: with voiceover and safari 18:53:08 s/Matt_King: with/jongunderson: with 18:53:16 Matt_King: chromium does not 18:53:21 Matt_King: so it's a gecko and webkit bug 18:54:24 jamesn: it's correct and allowed 18:54:30 jongunderson: it's allowed, but i don't think it's correct 18:54:50 jamesn: it contains the section' 18:54:58 s/section'/section's heading right? 18:55:04 Matt_King: main is a sectioning element right? 18:55:18 Matt_King: it conforms with the spec - Siri, what do you say? 18:55:54 siri: even though it conforms, but if it's not required i'd suggest removing it 18:55:56 jongunderson: +1 18:56:26 jamesn: i think we should also file bugs vs. the browsers, don't disagree about removing it 18:56:50 Matt_King: so could someone flag this with firefox and safari? 18:57:07 jamesn: browsers don't seem to expose it in the accessibility info - maybe it's NVDA and VoiceOver then? 18:57:35 Matt_King: maybe the accessibility tree itself has a bug then? 18:58:01 jamesn: remember - we're triaging :) 18:58:23 TOPIC: Meeting wrapup 18:58:54 jamesn: might not be as simple as filing bugs with the browsers 18:59:02 siri: i'll do some investigation 18:59:05 jongunderson: i cannot 18:59:17 Matt_King: sounds good - i'll move this to the other issue 18:59:52 zakim, who is here? 18:59:52 Present: Matt_King, Rich_Noah, siri, jongund 18:59:54 On IRC I see MarkMcCarthy, jongunderson, jamesn, siri, Rich_Noah, Zakim, RRSAgent, Matt_King, github-bot, s3ththompson, zcorpan, MichaelC, ZoeBijl, trackbot 18:59:59 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:59:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/24-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:01:48 present+ s3ththompson 19:01:50 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:01:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/24-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:02:00 present+ 19:02:01 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:02:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/24-aria-apg-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy 19:58:16 github-bot, reboot 19:58:16 jamesn, Sorry, I can't reboot right now because I have buffered topics in #aria-apg. 19:58:39 github-bot, help 19:58:39 jamesn, The commands I understand are: 19:58:39 help - Send this message. 19:58:39 intro - Send a message describing what I do. 19:58:40 status - Send a message with current bot status. 19:58:40 bye - Leave the channel. (You can /invite me back.) 19:58:40 end topic - End the current topic without starting a new one. 19:58:41 reboot - Make me leave the server and exit. If properly configured, I will then update myself and return. 19:59:01 github-bot end topic 19:59:29 github-bot, end topic 19:59:41 github-bot, bye 19:59:42 github-bot has left #aria-apg 19:59:49 github-bot has joined #aria-apg 19:59:57 github-bot, reboot 19:59:57 jamesn, OK, I'll reboot now. 20:00:46 github-bot has joined #aria-apg 21:49:08 Zakim has left #aria-apg