14:08:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
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14:08:58 <sebastian> scribenick: cristiano
14:09:02 <cris__> scribenik: cris
14:09:18 <cris__> topic: Agenda
14:09:43 <cris__> seb: couple of PRs and decide if we are ready for CR
14:09:46 <dape> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html dape
14:09:56 <mlagally__> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Paintner, Jan_Romann, Michael_McCool, Michael_Lagally
14:10:16 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
14:10:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:10:23 <cris__> ... maybe we'll not have time to check the issues
14:10:38 <cris__> ... aob ?
14:10:39 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please make log public
14:10:42 <cris__> ... ok
14:10:51 <cris__> topic: minutes review
14:11:41 <JKRhb> chair: Sebastian
14:11:47 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
14:11:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:11:54 <cris__> seb: we talked about internationalization review
14:12:12 <JKRhb> s/scribenik: cris/scribenick: cris/
14:12:18 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
14:12:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:13:33 <JKRhb> Meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:13:35 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
14:13:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:13:40 <cris__> s/scribenick: cris/scribenick: cris__/
14:14:10 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
14:14:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:14:13 <cris__> seb: then we talked about directories
14:14:23 <cris__> ... and languages
14:14:36 <cris__> ... but the issue was forwarded to the Discovery TF
14:14:53 <JKRhb> s/scribenick: cristiano//
14:14:57 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
14:14:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
14:15:44 <cris__> ... regarding accessibility there were no specif issues for TD
14:16:21 <cris__> ... TAG review was positive
14:16:46 <cris__> ... IANA registration should be covered, we had a PR that is now merged
14:17:17 <cris__> ... there's a problem in the topics
14:17:27 <cris__> ... 6 and 7 sections can be merged in one
14:17:34 <cris__> ... then we had some PRs
14:17:52 <cris__> ... mostly related to semantics and context issues
14:19:49 <cris__> ... we fixed also read/writeOnly defaults in affordances
14:20:18 <cris__> ... do the minutes look good?
14:20:36 <cris__> jan: at the bottom there's some issues related to the scribe
14:20:57 <cris__> seb: yes probably kaz can fix it
14:21:31 <cris__> ... content-wise minutes approved
14:21:41 <cris__> topic: Wide review
14:22:17 <cris__> seb: I updated the questoinare, but no feedback
14:22:31 <cris__> mc: we exchanged some emails
14:22:48 <cris__> ... we should discuss it in the github issue no emails
14:23:37 <cris__> seb: internationalization is done
14:23:50 <cris__> ... TAG also almost done
14:23:54 <cris__> ... architecture is missing
14:24:27 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-td
14:24:40 <cris__> ... regarding IANA we now have also an entry about Thing Model
14:25:38 <cris__> ... added a ref to json pointers
14:25:45 <cris__> mc: also to TD registratoin?
14:25:54 <cris__> seb: no, we would need another PR
14:27:49 <dape> q+
14:28:25 <dape> ack dape
14:28:29 <cris__> dape: about contact field we should use maybe team-wot
14:28:34 <cris__> ... not too specific
14:29:03 <cris__> mc: +1 for team-wot as long as it stays stable
14:29:33 <cris__> seb: regarding privacy
14:29:43 <cris__> ... we recieved comments
14:29:50 <cris__> mc: I updated architecture
14:30:01 <cris__> ... but it also applies to discovery
14:30:35 <cris__> ... TLS applies to everything that's why it has been added in architecture
14:30:43 <cris__> ... TLS is required for public URLs
14:30:52 <cris__> ... is optional for private networks
14:31:42 <cris__> ml: should we recommend a certain version of TLS ?
14:31:56 <cris__> mc: it is a minor update but we can do it later
14:32:48 <cris__> ml: do we mention tls in TD spec?
14:33:00 <cris__> mc: I think we should cite architecture
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14:38:11 <cris__> seb: about identifiers
14:38:29 <cris__> mc: we should probably add an assertion about id rotation
14:38:54 <cris__> ... immutable IDs might be property affordances
14:39:23 <cris__> ... id can be used to track location
14:39:36 <cris__> ... or activity
14:40:13 <cris__> seb: I like the overview made by Michael
14:40:41 <cris__> ml: tracking devices is inside monitoring use cases
14:40:56 <cris__> ... by definition
14:41:36 <cris__> ... probably we should distingish users and devices when it comes to tracking
14:41:53 <cris__> mc: yeah but it is tricky: devices can be used to track users
14:42:18 <cris__> seb: so you might to discuss a little more?
14:42:43 <Ege> q+
14:43:33 <cris__> mc: there's no standard way to rotate ids
14:43:59 <cris__> ... for discovery 2.0 we might include a notification system for id rotation
14:45:08 <Ege> mic is not working
14:45:20 <Ege> I just wanted to say that for me, this is an issue for discovery and not TD
14:45:38 <cris__> mc: well maybe
14:45:45 <dape> s/mic is not working//
14:46:04 <cris__> ... it is a good place to discuss the problem
14:46:33 <cris__> ... the rotation right now is "manual"
14:47:52 <cris__> cris: don't we have update events in TDDs?
14:48:21 <cris__> mc: yeah but you break the URL, but we can discuss futher next monday
14:48:49 <cris__> seb: ok moving on with reviews, no reaction on security
14:49:06 <cris__> ... but it seems they have a lot of requests
14:49:12 <cris__> ... let's wait
14:49:25 <cris__> ... maybe we can ask kaz
14:49:38 <cris__> ... discovery is WIP
14:49:51 <cris__> mc: it is because the explainer is still to be done
14:49:56 <cris__> topic: PRs
14:50:08 <cris__> seb: a lot in the pipeline
14:50:32 <cris__> ml: I reviewed specific PRs
14:50:42 <cris__> ... mostly those related to normative changes
14:50:52 <cris__> ... it is very difficutl to review those
14:51:00 <cris__> ... they contain unrelated chages
14:51:22 <cris__> ... for example 1491 contains random changes
14:51:36 <cris__> mc: it happens mostly with index.html
14:51:53 <cris__> ... it is automatically generated
14:52:07 <cris__> ... that's why sometimes it changes
14:52:35 <cris__> seb: you should review the template.html
14:52:56 <cris__> ml: I would like to focus just on the document
14:53:08 <cris__> ... I'm not interested in the low level details
14:53:16 <cris__> seb: what about using the preview?
14:53:28 <cris__> ml: it hard to find normative keywords changes
14:53:59 <cris__> ... previews are not reliable
14:54:14 <McCool> q?
14:54:29 <cris__> q+
14:54:42 <cris__> seb: sadly we know about this issues
14:55:28 <cris__> ml: but sometimes there might be content changes not just blank spaces
14:55:48 <cris__> ege: for example PR 1493
14:56:09 <cris__> ... this change keeps popping up
14:56:13 <cris__> ... added and removed
14:56:40 <cris__> mc: probably is the renderer that it gets confused
14:56:56 <cris__> ... with order of statement
14:57:25 <cris__> ... it might be a bug in the ontology
14:57:26 <JKRhb> q+
14:58:32 <Ege> q-
14:59:12 <cris__> ml: why do we add the index.hmtl to PR?
14:59:18 <cris__> seb: to see the render version
14:59:27 <dape> q+
14:59:44 <JKRhb> q-
15:00:19 <dape> q-
15:00:39 <dape> ack cris__
15:01:34 <cris__> cris: the problem is well-known a lot of small details that need to be fixed...
15:02:08 <cris__> ... but likely the editors and me got used to the workflow and we can understand the changes
15:02:22 <cris__> ... still I agree that we should simplify
15:02:44 <JKRhb> q+
15:02:58 <cris__> seb: of course having an automatic buidling process helps to keep the ontology alligned
15:03:00 <JKRhb> q-
15:03:29 <cris__> ... we should talk about this when we set up a new document
15:03:33 <kaz> kaz has joined #wot-td
15:03:50 <McCool> q?
15:03:52 <McCool> q+
15:04:10 <JKRhb> ack McCool
15:04:12 <McCool> ack m
15:04:38 <cris__> subtopic: issue 1487
15:05:10 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1487
15:05:41 <cris__> ege: it removes the json schema inside the body of the main document
15:06:00 <cris__> ... it also caused merge conflicts
15:06:05 <McCool> q+
15:06:25 <cris__> ... it is an informative change
15:06:39 <cris__> ... also I'm removing the format keyword
15:06:46 <cris__> ... they all have problems
15:07:04 <cris__> ... not every jsonschema implement those
15:07:46 <cris__> ... added also an ed note
15:08:04 <cris__> ... we will need a link to teh static file
15:08:09 <cris__> mc: that was my comment
15:08:18 <cris__> ... not sure we should host in github
15:08:28 <cris__> ... the best place should be on w3c
15:08:37 <cris__> cris: agree
15:08:41 <cris__> ege: +1
15:08:50 <McCool> ack m
15:08:58 <cris__> seb: yeah it should be done for all the other files
15:09:25 <cris__> ... e.g. ontology and context
15:09:45 <cris__> ... other standards used to have the schema in the body of the document
15:09:54 <cris__> ... but they were ment to be printed
15:10:00 <cris__> ... on paper
15:10:07 <JKRhb> q+
15:10:36 <cris__> jan: maybe the tm schema should go under the same treatment
15:10:41 <cris__> ege: I'm doing it
15:11:04 <cris__> ... probably we should have a table with links to all this documents
15:11:30 <cris__> seb: looks good to me
15:17:16 <cris__> subtopic: PR 1489
15:17:31 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1489
15:17:40 <cris__> dape: minor fix about respec
15:17:44 <cris__> seb: ok merged
15:17:56 <cris__> subtopic 1491
15:18:15 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1491
15:18:32 <cris__> seb: from ege, is about stating sync or async action in the TD body
15:19:20 <cris__> ... we have support for async actions in profile
15:19:43 <cris__> q+
15:19:55 <cris__> seb: any other changes?
15:20:11 <cris__> mc: what is the default?
15:20:17 <cris__> ege: no default
15:21:11 <cris__> ... no using a default we force people to use it
15:21:36 <cris__> mc: that clear the ambiguity
15:21:44 <cris__> s/clear/clears/
15:21:54 <dape> q+ to naming
15:21:54 <cris__> ... but in 2.0 we should fix it
15:22:03 <cris__> ... in profile we should require it
15:22:04 <Ege> q?
15:22:20 <JKRhb> ack j
15:23:37 <cris__> cris: what happen if I use sync false but I don't have a queryaction form?
15:23:49 <cris__> ege: you might expose the status in a property
15:24:09 <cris__> ... or you don't have a way to query what is happening
15:25:09 <cris__> cris: I'm not convinced about the name
15:25:26 <cris__> dape: why are we shorting the name?
15:25:37 <cris__> ... what about synchronous?
15:25:53 <dape> ack dape
15:25:53 <Zakim> dape, you wanted to naming
15:26:39 <cris__> cris: plus sync and async might be confusing for developers
15:27:01 <cris__> ege: yeah, maybe we can do an open call for better name
15:30:39 <cris__> subtopic: PR 1493
15:31:01 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1493
15:32:55 <cris__> ege: move a statment to the right place
15:33:29 <dape> q?
15:33:32 <dape> ack cris__
15:33:56 <cris__> ... and also put a new section with a explanation about the connection between data schema and operation
15:34:16 <cris__> ... this can be marked as informative
15:34:35 <cris__> ... no way to describe queryaction dataschema
15:35:22 <cris__> ... I also named the section
15:35:32 <cris__> ... previously was a big chunk of text
15:36:02 <cris__> seb: one section is missplaced
15:37:03 <cris__> ... I think it is nice to have this explainer
15:37:15 <cris__> ege: I marked the section as non-normative
15:37:40 <cris__> seb: I'm ok keeping it non-normative
15:37:48 <cris__> cris: +1
15:37:52 <cris__> q?
15:38:44 <cris__> seb: ok then PR accepted
15:41:04 <cris__> ... merged
15:41:22 <cris__> subtopic: PR 1494
15:41:44 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1494
15:42:25 <JKRhb> q+
15:42:42 <cris__> seb: introducing a requirement for TMs to have @context
15:42:54 <cris__> jan: was arlready in the json schema?
15:42:57 <cris__> ege: yes
15:43:10 <JKRhb> ack j
15:44:01 <cris__> seb: ok PR accepted
15:44:49 <cris__> subtopic: PR 1498
15:45:05 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1498
15:45:26 <cris__> ege: didn't see Michael's comment, I'll update later
15:45:44 <cris__> jan: also ipr issues
15:46:22 <cris__> mc: it is updating a folder that was removed by me because it was confusing
15:46:53 <cris__> subtopic: PR 1499
15:47:04 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1499
15:47:39 <cris__> seb: it removes a kind of process about how to evaluate the text direction
15:47:48 <cris__> ... it was there from 1.0
15:48:09 <cris__> ... but the internationalization review pinpointed a better approach
15:48:19 <cris__> ... now it links another document
15:48:30 <cris__> ... from w3c
15:48:30 <McCool> q+
15:49:02 <cris__> mc: I'm not seeing any assertions in the new document
15:49:22 <cris__> seb: the reason why is that I'm linking a note
15:49:35 <cris__> mc: that's why we copy it over
15:49:51 <cris__> seb: but it won't be normative
15:50:06 <cris__> mc: can we cite a non-normative document using an assertion?
15:50:17 <cris__> seb: we have to ask kaz
15:50:37 <cris__> mc: I would make it an assertion
15:52:52 <cris__> seb: PR not merged, let's continue the discussion
15:53:26 <cris__> subtopic: PR 1500
15:53:35 <cris__> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1500
15:54:24 <cris__> seb: it adds a note
15:54:47 <cris__> ... basically tm:fef might contains non-ASCII characters
15:55:03 <cris__> mc: json uses bit compatiiblity not ASCII
15:55:21 <cris__> seb: it was proposed
15:55:40 <cris__> mc: maybe URLs are more restrictive
15:56:28 <cris__> seb: ok PR approved
15:57:54 <cris__> ... merged
15:59:56 <cris__> ... ok we couldn't get all the PR merged
16:00:02 <cris__> ... we should postpone PR transition
16:00:14 <cris__> ... next week
16:00:21 <cris__> ... we are getting closer
16:00:33 <cris__> mc: still a lot of PRs
16:00:44 <cris__> seb: but we are not accepting new one
16:01:18 <cris__> ege: updated PR 1491
16:01:26 <cris__> seb: ok let's merge this
16:02:34 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:02:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
16:03:17 <JKRhb> [adjourned]
16:03:22 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:03:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
16:03:29 <cris__> [adjourned]
16:03:37 <cris__> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:03:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html cris__
16:07:31 <JKRhb> s/[adjourned]/[adjourned2]/
16:07:33 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:07:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
16:07:56 <JKRhb> s/[adjourned]//
16:08:03 <JKRhb> s/[adjourned2]/[adjourned]/
16:08:05 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
16:08:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/18-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
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