16:45:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:45:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-aria-irc
16:45:36 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:45:37 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:46:37 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:46:53 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:46:53 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:46:53 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20220505T130000
16:46:53 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:46:53 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3OUzUvZ
16:46:54 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3KH3ceh
16:46:56 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates  - Dialog this week! (before this meeting)
16:46:59 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Logging process https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/new/choose
16:47:02 <agendabot> agenda+  -> associationlist and related roles have tediously long names https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1662
16:47:05 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Prohibit presentation / none on where it causes conflict resolution https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1494
16:47:08 <agendabot> agenda+  -> HTML-AAM - Change mapping for generic https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/112
16:47:11 <agendabot> agenda+  -> 1.3 triage https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc
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17:03:11 <StefanS> present+
17:03:16 <jamesn> present+
17:03:19 <melsumner> present+
17:04:17 <pkra> present+
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17:04:51 <pkra> scribe: pkra
17:04:57 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:04:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3OUzUvZ -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:05:11 <spectranaut> present+
17:05:49 <pkra> jnurthen: accname#158. editors, what's the plan?
17:06:10 <pkra> melsumner: didn't we want to go evergreen?
17:06:22 <aaronlev> present+
17:06:35 <pkra> jnurthen: yes, but would need WD
17:07:01 <pkra> melsumner: ok then.
17:07:15 <pkra> michaelC: I was waiting to set up auto-publishing.
17:07:28 <pkra> melsumner: great. we've been going through backlog.
17:07:32 <pkra> ... so now is a good time.
17:07:41 <pkra> jnurthen: how is the branching?
17:08:03 <pkra> ... WD usually comes from stable.
17:08:08 <pkra> ... so cherry pick from main to stable.
17:08:21 <pkra> ... editor's draft off main, WD off stable
17:08:26 <pkra> melsumner: ok I'll respond on issue.
17:08:41 <pkra> jnurthen: ok. doesn't have to stay open.
17:09:10 <pkra> melsumner:  core-aam#116 just placeholder. accname soon, too. Needed for evergreen.
17:09:36 <pkra> ... nothing for right now
17:10:02 <pkra> michaelc: we did a wide review a few years back. I'm working out if we need to do that again.
17:10:28 <pkra> jnurthen: html-aam 399.
17:10:49 <pkra> scotto: waiting for firefox to agree.
17:11:06 <pkra> ... maybe agenda soon. I will track.
17:11:20 <pkra> jnurthen: aria 1734. need discussion?
17:11:36 <pkra> scotto: maybe. might come up today
17:11:42 <siri> present +
17:11:45 <pkra> jnurthen: aria#1732
17:12:37 <pkra> pkra: continuation. I had merged PR, thus closed old issue. They opened a new one.
17:12:59 <pkra> jnurthen: I'll assing myself to make comment.
17:13:18 <pkra> jnurthen: aria#1731
17:13:48 <pkra> ... assign to valerie?
17:13:51 <pkra> valerie: ok.
17:13:59 <pkra> jnurthen: maybe we need a label "process"
17:14:34 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:14:34 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3KH3ceh -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:14:54 <pkra> jnurthen: html-aam#402 output element
17:15:20 <pkra> scotto: removes idea output is named by subtree. Adds label. Removes uia control type.
17:16:20 <pkra> ... question: worth adding note or normative that how to announce as part of live region.
17:16:39 <pkra> jnurthen: yeah, sounds bogus. Who should review?
17:16:44 <pkra> cynthia: I'll review.
17:17:40 <pkra> mattking: how does this play into live region?
17:17:54 <pkra> scotto: implicit to role=status. name from author.
17:18:01 <pkra> jnurthen: not clearly specificed yet, right?
17:18:11 <pkra> scotto: yes, that's what this is trying to fix.
17:18:45 <pkra> ... but browsers are doing this right now so calling it out seems like a good way to start fixing some of these issues.
17:19:11 <pkra> mattking: should we not raise a bug?
17:19:20 <pkra> jnurthen: mattking, maybe review or comment?
17:19:26 <pkra> mattking: ok
17:19:38 <pkra> jnurthen: html-aam#401 meter fallback.
17:19:52 <pkra> scotto: review by implementors please.
17:20:15 <pkra> jnurthen: ok. anyone else?
17:20:37 <pkra> jnurthen: aria#1733
17:21:08 <pkra> ... I'll review. editorial.
17:21:18 <pkra> jnurthen: aria#398. waiting for me.
17:21:38 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:21:38 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates  - Dialog this week! (before this meeting) -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:21:48 <pkra> jnurthen: deep dive planning. Any suggestions?
17:21:54 <pkra> ... next two weeks are open
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17:22:37 <pkra> melsumner: should we just do dialog until we hash it out?
17:22:47 <pkra> scotto: but please first let's read current proposals.
17:23:05 <pkra> ... we cannot have another meeting just rehashing the conversations.
17:23:19 <pkra> mattking: can I edit the wiki and add issues?
17:23:33 <pkra> scotto: not sure about access. but ping me I'll edit.
17:23:43 <CurtBellew> present+
17:23:54 <MarkMcCarthy> presente+
17:24:00 <pkra> jnurthen: ok, no deep dive next week
17:24:01 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:24:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> New Issue Logging process https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/new/choose -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:24:10 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
17:24:15 <MarkMcCarthy> s/presente+/
17:24:28 <pkra> jnurthen: valerie got improvements going with options + templates for issues
17:24:58 <pkra> ... editorial, feature, question/concern, authoring
17:25:19 <pkra> ... templates are asking for info as needed.
17:25:31 <pkra> ... not all needed but meant to be left for later.
17:25:39 <pkra> ... e.g., APG, accname, etc
17:26:07 <pkra> ... authoring redirects to authoring practices.
17:26:20 <pkra> ... comments, concerns etc?
17:26:34 <MarkMcCarthy> Looks awesome!
17:26:35 <pkra> scotto: looks great!
17:26:37 <pkra> pkra: seconded.
17:27:02 <siri> +1
17:27:13 <pkra> valerie: I think it's good to have normative changes clearly tracked. Then we know if we can publish something.
17:27:20 <pkra> ... that is a good goal.
17:27:34 <pkra> jnurthen: depending on the quality of the new issue, open a new one ;-)
17:27:54 <pkra> ... feel free to suggest more ideas like it.
17:28:22 <pkra> mattking: for tracking downstream, do we get a label?
17:28:34 <pkra> jnurthen: yes, we will create labels when we have a first one.
17:28:55 <pkra> mattking: already 1.3 ?
17:29:03 <pkra> jnurthen: maybe. but 1.4 for sure.
17:30:13 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:30:13 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> associationlist and related roles have tediously long names https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1662 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:31:04 <pkra> valerie: I think this was just leftover as last meeting came to close.
17:31:32 <pkra> jnurthen: I think I said I made them intentionally long so they don't use them.
17:32:20 <pkra> mattking: what's the proposed solution?
17:32:34 <pkra> jnurthen: just list for DL, listitemkey, listemvalue.
17:32:49 <pkra> ... for DT DD
17:33:56 <pkra> mattking: can you have a list item ... [I didn't track]
17:34:05 <pkra> jnurthen: jcraig had suggested not to forbid it.
17:34:12 <pkra> ... but current mapping is bad.
17:34:30 <pkra> .. I'll assign myself.
17:35:44 <chlane> lol I use them too but I didn't know about the missing mappings ugh
17:35:54 <melsumner> I use DLs for API docs when I need to write them, what should I use instead?
17:35:59 <pkra> pkra: for the record I use them and would like better mappings.
17:36:05 <pkra> mattking: there's just nothing to map them to.
17:36:07 <pkra> zakim, next item.
17:36:07 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Prohibit presentation / none on where it causes conflict resolution https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1494 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:38:01 <pkra> jnurthen: old PR, originally simple. Joanie suggested adding it to associated state/property/role, also suggested prohibit use of property on role.
17:38:21 <pkra> ... not sure. I don't like the example but what does the group think?
17:38:25 <pkra> scotto: I like it.
17:39:19 <pkra> jnurthen: I think every single implementation would have to change. They'll have to prevent the property. Right now they ignore the role. Would change content.
17:40:03 <pkra> mattking: right now, we're enabling accessibility when we think there's an author error -- role=none is the error, the global prop is the "real" intent.
17:40:44 <pkra> ... that's my understanding at least.
17:41:11 <pkra> cynthia: mine as well.
17:41:43 <pkra> melsumner: we do that trying to provide a good user experience. but if someone writes rules for testing or linting, the opposite is true.
17:41:58 <pkra> mattking: could do it the other way around.
17:42:01 <pkra> melsumner: yes.
17:42:06 <pkra> scotto: we do this in html-aam.
17:42:23 <pkra> ... e.g., role=none and focusable elements
17:42:40 <pkra> ... but don't see we can state this generally
17:42:46 <pkra> ... we need to maintain that.
17:43:13 <pkra> ... we allow the property on the role but then tell them the role will be removed.
17:43:26 <pkra> mattking: we don't have the concept in the spec.
17:43:39 <pkra> melsumner: the role takes precedence, right?
17:43:44 <pkra> mattking: yes except here
17:44:11 <pkra> jnurthen: how do we resolve this?
17:46:08 <pkra> aaron: if we were to change as Joanie suggests: I don't want to have to check the role whenever I look at a property.
17:46:16 <pkra> ... right now it's easy.
17:46:24 <pkra> ... change would be harder than it's worth.
17:46:30 <pkra> jnurthen: so maybe just do the simple approach.
17:46:37 <pkra> ... as the original PR
17:47:22 <chlane> it sounds like the only approach we can take without breaking things
17:47:26 <pkra> aaron: I'm ok as long as implementation stays
17:47:29 <pkra> scotto: I agree.
17:47:32 <pkra> mattking: agreed.
17:47:44 <pkra> jnurthen: then let's just merge the PR?
17:47:46 <pkra> scotto: I'll review
17:48:20 <pkra> pkra: the other point about having to read the section?
17:48:36 <pkra> jnurthen: yeah, not sure.
17:48:51 <pkra> scotto: I'll look through it, check if anything to add.
17:49:07 <pkra> ... but he'll probably not be back to make changes.
17:49:41 <pkra> ... so we should make edits ourselves.
17:50:42 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:50:42 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- -> HTML-AAM - Change mapping for generic https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/112 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:51:05 <pkra> scotto: discussed it with jcraig, he'll start working on it.
17:51:09 <pkra> ... then reach out for review.
17:51:26 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:51:26 <Zakim> agendum 7 was just opened, pkra
17:51:38 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:51:38 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
17:51:39 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:51:39 <Zakim> 8. -> 1.3 triage https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc [from agendabot]
17:51:49 <pkra> zakim, next item
17:51:49 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- -> 1.3 triage https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+no%3Aproject+sort%3Acreated-asc -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:52:37 <pkra> aria #1008
17:52:45 <pkra> jnurthen: joanie says no.
17:52:57 <pkra> ... but tpac note says yes.
17:53:58 <pkra> valerie: let's assign and move on?
17:54:35 <chlane> Ill give it a try
17:54:49 <pkra> valerie: I'll take a look
17:55:25 <pkra> jnurthen: aria#1048. Has PR from me. I'll assign myself.
17:55:52 <pkra> aaron: aria-relevant is horrible and inconsistent. the idea we originally had didn't pan out.
17:56:26 <pkra> jnurthen: aria#1084
17:56:55 <pkra> ... sounds like a good first issue.
17:57:08 <pkra> ... prose to explain concepts. editorial.
17:57:08 <chlane> I'll do it
17:57:16 <chlane> 1084
17:58:00 <pkra> ... assign to chlane.
17:58:33 <pkra> ... aria#1101
17:59:06 <pkra> ... follow up to changes to global
17:59:53 <pkra> scotto: comment in spec warns of this change.
18:00:03 <pkra> mattking: trying to imagine a disabled row.
18:00:18 <pkra> aaron: disabled tree item is ok?
18:01:08 <pkra> mattking: my comment was assuming it's needed. but I'm not sure about that.
18:01:10 <pkra> ... 1.4
18:01:28 <pkra> RRS agent, make minutes
18:01:33 <pkra> RRSagent, make minutes
18:01:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/05-aria-minutes.html pkra
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18:02:06 <pkra> Hapy to.
18:02:10 <pkra> Happy to.
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