13:04:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #a11y-functional
13:04:03 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/05/03-a11y-functional-irc
13:04:04 <JakeAbma> JakeAbma has joined #a11y-functional
13:08:34 <MichaelC> topic: FAST restructure
13:08:41 <Todd> Todd has joined #a11y-functional
13:08:49 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/fast/pull/3
13:08:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #a11y-functional
13:08:49 <Todd> present+
13:08:58 <MichaelC> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/fast/restructure-functional-and-user-needs/index.html
13:09:26 <Joshue108> TOPIC: New FAST update
13:09:36 <Joshue108> MC: I've got a new branch
13:09:39 <Joshue108> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/fast/restructure-functional-and-user-needs/index.html
13:09:48 <Joshue108> MC:<gives overview of new FAST>
13:09:59 <Joshue108> MC: It would be great if we could agree to merge this
13:11:20 <Joshue108> MC: Here is a list of what I've done in the PR https://github.com/w3c/fast/pull/3
13:11:52 <Joshue108> MC: I'd like to get the Matrix into this doc in some form
13:12:09 <Joshue108> MC: Even a screenshot etc to identify how we are working
13:12:15 <Joshue108> MC: I put the terms inline
13:12:44 <Joshue108> Definitions here https://raw.githack.com/w3c/fast/restructure-functional-and-user-needs/index.html#functional-needs
13:12:45 <Joshue108> q?
13:12:57 <Joshue108> MEETING: Functional Needs
13:13:14 <Joshue108> MC: Discusses various layers
13:13:31 <Joshue108> MC: I'd like input on what should be changed before merging?
13:13:44 <Joshue108> JOC: Really happy to see this progress.
13:13:57 <Joshue108> Todd: Also happy
13:14:03 <Joshue108> Jake: Happy to merge
13:14:28 <Joshue108> RESOLUTION: Merging of MC branch approved
13:14:39 <Joshue108> MC: We can work on this in the future
13:15:03 <Joshue108> If this doc is a source of truth now, anything from the Google docs will have to be reflected or we work from this.
13:15:25 <Joshue108> JOC: Would this be people logging PRs etc?
13:15:29 <Joshue108> MC: Yeah, or issues
13:16:00 <Joshue108> Editing via PRs etc - that can be forced in the repository
13:17:10 <Joshue108> JOC: The Google sheet bit has worked ok, what do you think?
13:17:41 <Joshue108> JA: Is the question if we have a sketch version somewhere, then its not scattered around.
13:18:38 <Joshue108> JA: To experiement on the matrix we will work further on the Google Sheet document
13:18:56 <Joshue108> MC: We need to manage change tracking.
13:19:17 <Joshue108> JA: AFAIK, tracking of changes in spreadsheets is available.
13:20:06 <Joshue108> <Discussion on tools formats>
13:20:42 <Joshue108> MC: We could establish a convention where we use an asterisk to show when content is ready to migrate
13:20:56 <Joshue108> We could great a working sheet for mappings that is less of a matrix
13:21:06 <Joshue108> MC:<Discusses ideas>
13:21:20 <Joshue108> Columns for user need, functional needs etc
13:21:45 <Joshue108> They can be dynamically linked - flat list of outcomes that say how they relate and we generate the matrix from that
13:21:54 <Joshue108> Don't know how to do that the opposite way
13:22:04 <Joshue108> Each outcome needs to be its own cell.
13:22:30 <Joshue108> JOC: Could we get it as CSV?
13:22:34 <Joshue108> MC: Yeah
13:22:56 <Joshue108> JOC: We can stick with Sheets for now.
13:23:08 <Joshue108> MC: We need an editing environment that works
13:23:11 <Joshue108> JOC: And is accessible
13:24:06 <Joshue108> MC: Sheets can be our scratchpad - asterisks can keep us in sync.
13:24:13 <Joshue108> MC: Thats all I've done
13:24:16 <Joshue108> JOC: Good stuff
13:25:05 <Joshue108> MC: Regarding the functioning of the group - we are now on APA
13:25:12 <Joshue108> Todd has approval
13:25:28 <MichaelC> topic: work mode
13:25:33 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Functional_Needs_sub-group
13:25:36 <Joshue108> MC: We are all in APA
13:28:37 <Joshue108> MC: DIscusses leadership, COGA and A11y for Children
13:29:00 <Joshue108> Topic: Deceptive Patterns
13:29:17 <Todd> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WKGPMiDL8CKcXWr0md09ZLwZEPdoxeNTNQsf8IuszqQ/edit#heading=h.6flbja9pmm8c
13:29:51 <Joshue108> JOC: Lets continue from To be categorised
13:31:02 <Joshue108> JOC: We are discussing Price comparison prevention
13:31:57 <Joshue108> TL: I had in annoying unwanted and wording
13:33:28 <Joshue108> Discuss Misdirection that moves focus
13:34:15 <Joshue108> Where form focus is jumping around
13:34:46 <Joshue108> JA: If covered by an SC did we not say it should be removed?
13:36:26 <Joshue108> JOC: Hard to tell the different between this an just poor focus management
13:36:57 <Joshue108> Discuss Bait and switch
13:37:12 <Joshue108> TL: Unsure of this, needs example
13:37:56 <Joshue108> JOC: Sounds like clickbait issue?
13:38:21 <Joshue108> TL: When buying something for price x, you get extra stuff added
13:38:49 <Joshue108> And pay more for a product they didn't want to spend on.
13:39:04 <Joshue108> JOC: Like an upsell by stealth
13:40:58 <Joshue108> Discuss Twitter tweets of people you have blocked
13:42:06 <Joshue108> TL: The user has to interact consciously - the user can ignore it and move on.
13:42:17 <Joshue108> They need to interact to see the blocked account
13:42:20 <Joshue108> Remove?
13:43:31 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: Functional needs sub-group https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Functional_Needs_sub-group
13:46:32 <Joshue108> Discuss Pop up text boxes on websites
13:46:40 <Joshue108> <Remove>
13:46:54 <Joshue108> Discuss Subscription-based services that make you log in via a web browser
13:47:06 <Joshue108> JOC: Is this not an acceptable pattern
13:48:03 <Joshue108> JA: In banking you can go from the app to the website to change etc
13:48:10 <Joshue108> This is a company choice.
13:48:23 <Joshue108> All options cannot just be made available in the app.
13:48:38 <Joshue108> JOC: Yeah, I've seen this in banking also
13:51:51 <Joshue108> Discuss Close buttons which are obscured by size or colour choice
13:52:46 <Joshue108> JA: Dont get it
13:52:55 <Joshue108> JOC: Is this where a button is made very small
13:53:22 <Joshue108> TL: Like mobile ads that are videos and they are obscured
13:53:28 <Joshue108> JA: They are behind something
13:53:37 <Joshue108> JOC: Thats done deliberately
13:54:19 <Joshue108> JA: DIscusses example
13:59:34 <Joshue108> JOC: Let come back to this - next.
13:59:43 <Joshue108> Topic: Agenda next week
13:59:50 <Joshue108> TL: Go thru the rest of this list
14:00:13 <Joshue108> JOC: COGA upcoming Michael?
14:00:22 <Joshue108> MC: Yes  - will look into this?
14:00:39 <Joshue108> JOC: Planning
14:00:50 <Joshue108> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:00:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/03-a11y-functional-minutes.html Joshue108
15:30:21 <Zakim> Zakim has left #a11y-functional
17:33:31 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
17:33:38 <MichaelC> meeting: A11Y Functional Needs
17:33:47 <MichaelC> chair: Joshue
17:34:01 <MichaelC> scribe: Joshue108
17:34:21 <MichaelC> present: Jake, Michael, Todd, Joshue
17:34:25 <MichaelC> scribeOptions: -final
17:34:29 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:34:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/05/03-a11y-functional-minutes.html MichaelC
17:34:47 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
17:34:47 <RRSAgent> I see no action items