13:31:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #epub
13:31:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/04/22-epub-irc
13:31:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:31:14 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
13:31:36 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2022-04-22: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2022Apr/0013.html
13:31:37 <ivan> Chair: wendy
13:31:37 <ivan> Date: 2022-04-22
13:31:37 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2022Apr/0013.html
13:31:37 <ivan> Meeting: EPUB 3 Working Group Telco
13:31:37 <ivan> Regrets+ dauwhe, tzviya
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13:59:13 <MasakazuKitahara> present+
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13:59:31 <ivan> present+
13:59:32 <toshiakikoike> present+
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13:59:37 <ivan> present+ avneesh
13:59:42 <BenSchroeter> present+
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13:59:53 <duga> present+
14:00:03 <wendyreid> present+
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14:00:09 <gpellegrino> present+
14:00:18 <ivan> present+ ben, wendy, brady
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14:00:42 <MattChan> present+
14:00:43 <ivan> present+ matthew
14:01:16 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:01:32 <MattChan> scribe+
14:01:58 <ivan> regrets+ matt
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14:02:09 <dlazin> present+
14:03:38 <ivan> present+ george
14:03:38 <MattChan> wendyreid: the topic for today is how to run tests
14:03:50 <MattChan> ... if everything goes well, we'll be in CR soon, so we'll want to start running tests
14:03:57 <MattChan> ... what will that actually look like?
14:04:05 <ivan> q+
14:04:17 <MattChan> ... if everyone is okay with recording the part of the meeting where dlazin explains this, we'll go ahead with that
14:04:20 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:04:29 <MattChan> ivan: can we add an agenda item?
14:04:44 <MattChan> ... i have sent a mail to the group a few days ago, but i wanted it recorded here too
14:04:54 <MattChan> ... there is a CG on webviews now
14:05:00 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:05:06 <MattChan> ... i was there for the opening call, but I don't have the technical expertise to participate
14:05:19 <GeorgeK> present+
14:05:20 <MattChan> ... yet, the epub RS community is one of the major users of webviews
14:05:30 <MattChan> ... any work in that CG might affect RS developers in the future
14:05:39 <MattChan> ... there is a list of issues that has been raised already
14:05:40 <ivan> -> webviews issues https://github.com/WebView-CG/usage-and-challenges/issues
14:06:02 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:06:06 <MattChan> ... the goal of the group is to write a use-case and requirements document, to be done shortly after TPAC
14:06:22 <MattChan> ... they will try to identify where webview implementations might converge, additional features, etc.
14:06:56 <MattChan> ... i could be the go-between, but probably better for RS implementors with the necessary background to participate in that CG to make sure that what is around in the long term will make your lives easier
14:07:22 <MattChan> wendyreid: okay, please comment now if you have an issue recording?
14:07:41 <MattChan> s/an issue recording/an issue with me recording
14:08:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:08:07 <MattChan> ivan: i've started the recording
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14:08:45 <ivan> present+ charles
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14:09:03 <MattChan> dlazin: hello everyone, let's first refamiliarize you with where the tests are at, and how RS can determine whether they are in compliance with the spec/whether we have 2 independent implementors of each feature
14:09:04 <dlazin> https://w3c.github.io/epub-tests/
14:09:16 <MattChan> dlazin: here is the test repo for our spec
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14:09:56 <MattChan> ... i will attempt to share screen now
14:09:57 <Jen_G> Present+
14:11:08 <MattChan> ivan: i'll pause recording temporarily
14:12:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:12:27 <MattChan> duga: i joined the webview CG, but it would be great to have some non-Google people representing there
14:14:00 <MattChan> ivan: i've restarted the recording
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14:14:51 <MattChan> dlazin: most of what we talked about previously are the tests themselves, in /tests repo
14:15:12 <MattChan> ... for each test there is a folder of uncompressed stuff, and further down the zipped epub test itself
14:15:21 <MattChan> ... today we talk about running the tests themselves
14:15:37 <MattChan> ... we store the results as json, which gets used to populate the tests results page
14:15:58 <MattChan> ... there are two main documents, the contribution guidelines and the implementation report
14:16:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:16:24 <MattChan> ... the implementation reports page shows the test results for each RS that supplies implementation results
14:16:47 <MattChan> ... we have tables of consolidated results, as well as implementation results
14:17:18 <dlazin__> https://w3c.github.io/epub-tests/contributing
14:17:28 <MattChan> ... using Wysebee as example, it has 4 separate implementations. Google Play would similarly record its implementation specific results in different columns
14:17:29 <dlazin__> https://w3c.github.io/epub-tests/results
14:17:48 <MattChan> ... we're going to do an example assuming we are Apple Books
14:18:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:18:17 <MattChan> ... opening github app, and switching to repo for epub-tests, fetch to make sure I am up-to-date
14:18:46 <MattChan> ... in /epub-tests/reports you can see submitted test results
14:19:29 <MattChan> ... the xx-template.json contains a rest results template with everything set to false
14:19:45 <MattChan> ... create a duplicate of this for each implementation
14:19:57 <MattChan> ... update name
14:20:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:21:11 <MattChan> ... each test result is currently a boolean value set to false, I would comment out/remove all tests I have not yet run to distinguish a test failure from 'test not yet run'
14:21:33 <MattChan> ... get a test epub from the repo, and open it in your RS
14:22:01 <MattChan> ... view the epub to determine whether your RS has passed the test
14:22:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:22:18 <MattChan> ... if you need more context, you can view the unzipped test epub
14:23:21 <MattChan> ... update the test result value for the test you just performed (true/false)
14:23:41 <MattChan> ... create a branch on your fork, and submit a PR with your test result
14:23:50 <duga> q+
14:23:54 <MattChan> ... that's the idea -- go through the tests and run as many as you can
14:24:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:24:24 <MattChan> ... note that the list of tests is still being added to, so keep track of which ones you've done/which you still need to run
14:24:54 <MattChan> ... in the github version of the spec, respec will show an inline tests notice when there are tests for a given assertion
14:25:27 <MattChan> ... if you contributing to writing tests, you can use this to determine where more tests are needed
14:25:31 <wendyreid> ask duga
14:25:39 <wendyreid> ack duga
14:25:55 <MattChan> duga: from a work standpoint, can we use null to signify when a test has not been run on a given implementation yet?
14:25:59 <ivan> q+
14:26:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:26:36 <MattChan> ... when we complete new tests, will we populate the existing test result json files? Or will testers have to go back and compare their test result json again the updated template?
14:26:55 <MattChan> dlazin__: for now we aren't going back and updating existing test result files
14:26:57 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:27:17 <MattChan> ... yes to changing template test result file to use null instead of false for tests yet to be run
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14:28:16 <MattChan> ivan: re. updating test results template and updating existing test results files with new tests, i feel uneasy about changing RS dev's test results files
14:28:56 <MattChan> duga: could we make it so that testers have an option to run a script to say 'yes, add new tests to my test results file'?
14:29:35 <MattChan> ivan: no
14:29:49 <duga> q+
14:29:52 <MattChan> duga: okay, so testers will just add new tests to their test results file manually for now
14:29:53 <wendyreid> ack duga
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14:30:10 <ivan> q+
14:30:43 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:30:53 <MattChan> duga: re. visibility of tests, one of the easiest ways for me to test is to make the tests public, can we do that?
14:30:58 <ivan> q-
14:31:09 <ivan> q+
14:31:20 <MattChan> dlazin__: all the tests currently contain copyright information, and if you are happy to have the tests in your ebook store, we are happy for you to do that
14:31:48 <MattChan> ivan: i think the current copyright statement is a cc with attribution to w3c
14:31:56 <MattChan> dlazin__: no, we don't use cc, we use w3c license
14:32:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:32:21 <MattChan> ivan: oh, right, yes, we checked with with w3c Wendy (in legal) and it was okay
14:32:23 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:32:38 <MattChan> wendyreid: any other questions?
14:32:44 <ivan> q-
14:33:05 <MattChan> ... alright, so, we still need tests to be written, and we want tests to be performed
14:33:17 <MattChan> ... don't feel the need to start testing right away, as we are not yet in CR
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14:33:35 <MattChan> ... we are waiting for feedback from i18n and ping, as the Director has asked us to check with them
14:33:54 <MattChan> ... once we are in CR we'll start testing in earnest
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14:34:20 <MattChan> ivan: i'll stop recording now
14:34:30 <MattChan> wendyreid: okay, i'll edit the video down
14:34:42 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:34:45 <ivan> q+
14:34:50 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:34:54 <MattChan> ... if you can contribute tests, please do. If you have questions about contributing tests, you can come to me or dlazin__
14:35:18 <MattChan> ivan: another big area of testing that these tests will not cover is the content documents
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14:35:29 <MattChan> ... i.e. the MUSTs in the Core that are not executable
14:36:13 <MattChan> ... we had a long discussion about using epubcheck as a basis for testing
14:36:45 <MattChan> ... the epubcheck team is busy producing a version for epub 3.3, as part of which they will be creating tests for themselves
14:37:04 <MattChan> ... not all will be relevant for us (i.e. where they test HTML features)
14:37:40 <MattChan> ... we will extract the tests that are relevant for us, and I will script something that will use those tests to create a sort of test results table
14:38:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:38:38 <MattChan> ... most likely what we will have is an inline pulldown menu at the section level of the spec, listing the tests performed by epubcheck
14:39:03 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:39:05 <MattChan> ... so things are evolving on that side of testing
14:39:10 <MattChan> wendyreid: AOB?
14:39:42 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:39:44 <MattChan> wendyreid: i sent an email to the group on behalf of locators group, re. assistive test and locators
14:39:53 <MattChan> ... please reply to the email if you have input, some people already have
14:40:09 <MattChan> s/assistive test/assistive tech
14:40:22 <GeorgeK> GeorgeK has joined #epub
14:40:40 <MattChan> wendyreid: okay, thanks all, bye!
14:41:14 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:41:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/22-epub-minutes.html ivan
14:41:57 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
14:41:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MasakazuKitahara, ivan, toshiakikoike, avneesh, BenSchroeter, duga, wendyreid, gpellegrino, brady, MattChan, matthew, AvneeshSingh, dlazin,
14:41:59 <Zakim> ... george, GeorgeK, charles, Jen_G
14:41:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:41:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/22-epub-minutes.html Zakim
14:42:02 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:42:04 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
14:42:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items