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13:52:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
13:52:27 <trackbot> Date: 13 April 2022
13:52:32 <janina> agenda?
13:52:36 <janina> Chair:  Janina
13:52:36 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:52:36 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:52:39 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:52:42 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:52:44 <janina> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
13:52:47 <janina> agenda+ FAST and Maturity Model Deliverables Update
13:52:50 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:52:52 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:52:55 <janina> agenda+ TPAC (12-16 September) Planning
13:52:58 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
13:53:00 <janina> agenda+ be done
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14:00:00 <Fredrik> present+
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14:00:26 <iali> present+
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14:01:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
14:01:30 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
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14:02:52 <Fazio> present+
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14:03:50 <Fredrik> zakim, take up item 1
14:03:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:03:58 <becky> present+
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14:04:19 <Fredrik> janina: Basically our standard agenda.
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14:04:46 <Fredrik> zakim, take up item 2
14:04:46 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
14:04:58 <mike_beganyi> present+
14:04:58 <janina>  present+
14:05:09 <MichaelC> present+
14:05:29 <MichaelC> https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg-charter/
14:06:04 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Verifiable Credentials. Seem to be finally rechartering. Verifiable Credentials Data Model 2 and Verifiable Credentials 1.0 is what they will be working on. No liaison statement to APA.
14:06:55 <Fredrik> janina: We do have a very strong need this tiem around to coordinate, not only to the updated CAPTCHA document but what they will be contributing to it (including a new name fo rthe document).
14:07:50 <Fredrik> janina: We are already talking to several people in different groups concerning CAPTCHA activities.
14:08:12 <Fredrik> janina: We want to explore a liaison.
14:08:28 <Fredrik> MichaelC: I am drafting a response to them concerning liaison.
14:08:59 <MichaelC> APA would like a liaison documentation, worded something like "Coordinate on accessibility use cases for verifiable credentials, and work jointly on a successor technology to inaccessible CAPTCHAs."
14:10:14 <Fredrik> MichaelC: That was the only thing on charter review.
14:10:20 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:10:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:10:35 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
14:10:35 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:10:36 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:10:36 <Zakim> 3. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
14:10:38 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:10:38 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
14:11:11 <Fredrik> MichaelC: SVG native a11y api. They are definitely for things like icons. They don't have animations and so forth.
14:11:22 <Fredrik> MichaelC: The inability to use ARIA should not be an issue.
14:11:34 <Fredrik> janina: qI propose we can sign off.
14:11:41 <Fredrik> (Crickets.)
14:12:12 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: It's very god to have their intent clarified as to what they want it to do.
14:12:43 <Fredrik> janina: Does it need an a11y consideratiosn section saying just because this spec doesn't specifically address a11y doesn't mean you as an author are excused from your a11y responsibilities.
14:15:04 <Fredrik> MichaelC: The SVG Native turns off so much that the a11y consideratiosn are almost the same as for PNG files.
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14:17:18 <Fredrik> janina: We seem to be pretty well covered in teh parent SVG spec.
14:19:07 <Fredrik> MichaelC: this is what would be considered a "delta spec" and only wants to focus on the changes from the parent spec.
14:20:10 <Fredrik> PaulG: It's taking a strictly better image format and reducing it to no better than any other image format. We should protect some level of text so that it is accessible to some a11y APIs and make it better than a PNG.
14:21:11 <Fredrik> PaulG: There is no way to interface with a11y APIs even though it is XML and should be readable by a machine. It is nothing more than bitmap.
14:21:55 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:22:02 <Fredrik> MichaelC: The introduction says why they did so much reduction.
14:22:42 <Fredrik> PaulG: I strongly disagree that text as suchsi a web feature, though. Text is core to the OS.
14:23:58 <janina> ack ma
14:24:32 <Fredrik> janina: I don't think we're ready to sign off on this.
14:24:42 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Who will volunteer to do a note to them?
14:25:34 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:25:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
14:26:03 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/reporting-1/
14:26:13 <Fredrik> [For the last item, Matthew wil write the note for SVG Native.]
14:26:51 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Probably very low level.
14:28:03 <Fredrik> PaulG: They should have opened it up so that someone's AT could report probelsm with teh page.
14:28:26 <Fredrik> janina: Lionel: Think of a unique page, they are collecting metrics arguably at the Edge. If the metrics are good...
14:29:20 <Fredrik> PaulG: In the same vein as collecting certificate issues or performance prolems generated by a web app or site content, the browser, the user agent or additional addons and/or AT could interface int eh same manner with a11y related issues so that a site owner could be notified of problems bgenerated by their systems.
14:30:07 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/TR/reporting-1/
14:30:07 <Fredrik> MichaelC: This is a WD, no timeline known.
14:30:30 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger_: You want to add the fact that a11y reporting would be valuable as well?
14:31:22 <Fredrik> Lionel_Wolberger_: I'm very interested in this.
14:31:44 <Fredrik> janina: Assign this to Paul, Lionel and me and we will make sure to get a hold of them to say that there is an a11y interest here.
14:32:44 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Web  of Things Thing description. They pinged us in January. We had previously reviewed this (or Josh had).
14:32:59 <Fredrik> janina: I want to take another look.
14:33:08 <Fredrik> janina: We'll take another week.
14:33:35 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:33:35 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from janina]
14:33:52 <Fredrik> MichaelC: The main thing I wanted to cover was the WOT thing.
14:34:11 <Fredrik> janina: We want to make sure that the middleware information is expoed ina programmatical way.
14:34:41 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:34:41 <Fredrik> MichaelC: Just ot mention as spec review cleanup. WebXR thing that Josh has a comment for, cover that next week.
14:36:02 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: Janina and I are looking at Media Source Extensions(tm). There are defeinitely some a11y issues with the spec itself. I have some draft comments, and give me another week.
14:36:56 <Fredrik> janina: Let me amplify that. There are two kinds of comments. One is substantive comments with what the spec tries to do (see above concerning Reporting). Taht's substance of waht the spec covers. Tehn there is also the way the spec is presented. We want alt text for graphics, we want summery details for infographics and so forth.
14:37:31 <Fredrik> janina: That's all missingi in this spec. This is a beginning point to introduce them to us. You, Matthew, don't have to cite every instance, but tell them that there are multiple instances of not doing the proper thing here.
14:38:24 <Fredrik> janina: I am for sending that up to them rather soon. Multiple instances of these things missing is a problem.
14:38:43 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Lionel having connectivity issue. Will reconnect
14:39:10 <Fredrik> zakim, take up item 4
14:39:10 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
14:39:46 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: It's a thougth experiment kind of thing. Say we have an SVG that has alt text inside it. The assumption is that when it gets presented in a native context, that would disappear because it would be stripped out.
14:40:19 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: The platforms, however, have a11y APIs that could expose that on an image. I can't think of a platform that doesn't expose a11y information.
14:40:29 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: Why not allow the platform to do this as an optional thing?
14:40:40 <Fredrik> janina: Wouldn't it be simpler to support it an dallow it?
14:41:15 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: The content author will ahve to provide the image file and a separate alt text conveyed somehow. Why not just expose what is in the file if there is an alt text? If your system can't, that's fine, but if your system can, it should.
14:42:10 <Fredrik> janina: Are you saying that the web a11y information should be used through the native OS a11y APIs?
14:43:01 <PaulG> (also this: https://www.w3.org/TR/PNG/#11textinfo)
14:43:03 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: It's not that the OS can't dop it, but what renders the image is probably something that is from a 3rd party library like libsvg. They probably want to say that the existing renderers that have been around since time out of memory shouldn't suddenly be noncompliant.
14:44:25 <Fredrik> PaulG: By taking text support out of SVG, we are making it less than PNG (which has text support built in). Nobody's taking out the text chunks of PNG, but atht seems liek a bad idea as well.
14:44:39 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: That's brilliant, Paul.
14:45:48 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: It's Paul's idea and he put it beautifully. If you, paul, perfer to and want to take it, you're welcome to do so.
14:46:00 <Fredrik> PaulG: Happy to collaborate on that.
14:46:57 <Fredrik> zakim, take up item 5
14:46:57 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from janina]
14:47:06 <Fredrik> zakim, take up item 6
14:47:06 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- FAST and Maturity Model Deliverables Update -- taken up [from janina]
14:47:16 <Fredrik> close item 5
14:47:27 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
14:47:27 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Fredrik
14:47:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> ack me
14:48:02 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
14:48:02 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, Fredrik
14:48:13 <Fredrik> zakim, clos ethis item
14:48:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'clos ethis item', Fredrik
14:48:22 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
14:48:22 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
14:48:23 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:48:23 <Zakim> 7. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from janina]
14:48:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim take up item 7
14:48:52 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, take up item 7
14:48:52 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
14:48:55 <Fredrik> subtopic: RQTF
14:49:12 <Fredrik> janina: Last call on reviews!
14:49:39 <janina> https://www.w3.org/TR/saur/ <https://www.w3.org/TR/saur/
14:50:22 <Fredrik> janina: We have gotten good comments. We didn't want to finalize the note. We suggest a month is adequate. Due date on comments is 13th May.
14:50:50 <Fredrik> janina: After that we go to note status after a CFC. Tehn we'll see if we can go to W3C statement status.
14:51:40 <Fredrik> janina: REmtoe Meetings was almost ready to go but then we pulled it back because we were all actively collaboratively editing a document in real time during a Zoom meeting. We did bump into lots of a11y issues.
14:52:20 <Fredrik> janina: That has opened up issues which may result inour upcoming document. In organizing a meeting, it mibht be said in RM, one must be aware that there are a11y considerations and you should take these into account.
14:52:56 <Fredrik> janina: We are looking at an eend of month publication for RM. Another wide review before we finalize it and a prospect that one of the next documents might be an overall review of the status of collaborative, browser-bsed or even inan app, documents.
14:53:09 <Fredrik> janina: What are the challenges, what are the AURs that might need to get satisfied on that.
14:53:54 <Fredrik> janina: That's the current RQTF status.
14:54:10 <Fredrik> janina: Work on CAPTCHA goes on.
14:54:37 <Fredrik> subtopic: Personalization
14:54:54 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: We're still working on addressing our i18n issues.
14:55:08 <Matthew_Atkinson> WAI-Adapt
14:55:13 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: We have decided on a new name: WAI-Adapt.
14:55:34 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: So, WAI-Adapt: <something> Module.
14:56:04 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: We do have a couple of issues needing resolving, hte long standign i18n issue and another one that illustrated the need for clarification around the symbol attribute and so on.
14:56:11 <Fredrik> Matthew_Atkinson: That is about it.
14:56:25 <Fredrik> subtopic: Pronunciation
14:56:36 <Fredrik> PaulG: I missed last week, have to catch up.
14:57:05 <Fredrik> janina: We are meetingm the Silver group looking at the issues with web for children (see last week's notes).
14:57:30 <Fredrik> janina: We might be able to end there.
14:57:37 <Fredrik> subtopic: COGA
14:58:28 <Fredrik> Fazio: We were seekign participation from an AAC user. Working onit.
14:58:50 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:58:50 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
14:59:04 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/04/13-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
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18:37:02 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: APA Weekly Teleconference; Wednesday 20 April at 1400Z