Meeting minutes
<Ralph> previous 1 March
Liz: Let's get started then
Inclusion fund discussion
Liz: Inclusion fund discussion
… call out for anyone interested in participating this year
… we have last year's documentation
… we should put it in a more permanent place, and revise it
… I think we're assuming it will be an in-person event this year
… or hybrid, what will that look like
… three people from this group do a shortlist of the submissions, send to W3C for selection
sheila: I'll do it!
wendyreid: I'll do it
sheila: Is there something you're looking for in particular?
Liz: Anyone
… couple of responsibilities
… revise the documents
… move them to GitHub
… write some comms for announcements
… work with W3M Comms to make a better announcement
… then shortlisting and recommending people to fund
… last year almost all the submissions were lacking
… the legitimate ones were approved
… I wonder if there is a way to help filter the submissions better
… are you both on ET?
sheila: Yes
wendyreid: Yes
Ralph: For getting better proposal requests
… useful to document
… you're always going to get "spam"
… but we can tweak the language
… one question
… separate action to create the ask for sponsors for next year
… to be added to the ask
Liz: That's more W3M, we just reused the previous ones, but we can structure it a bit better problem
… looking at it from a content design perspective, it's a bit all over the place
Ombuds budget
sheila: We presented this a while back
… funding needed to build an ombuds program
… full team training plus ombuds stipend
… compensating ombuds
… $26k / year
… for training, 2 trainings twice annually, 4hrs at $1500/hour
… annual total of $12k
<Ralph> 15-Feb discussion of Ombuds training
sheila: stipends, 4 ombuds at 70hrs per year
… $50/hour
… reasonable and managable budget
… $14k
… the next thing we discussed was putting together a pitch
… to present to W3M or to find a sponsor
… I was waiting to take that next step, and I'm read y to do it whenever
Liz: Any thoughts?
… can we combine it with the ask for investigators
… case management workers
… would increase it
… we've not looked into that yet
sheila: Sounds good to me
… does that feel like the right breakdown of costs?
… we're estimating
… it really is a stipend
Liz: We assume most things will be related to virtual
sheila: We might need to pad it
… all costs in USD
cwilso: This sounds really well put together
… on travel
… I might mention that in future
… we'd want to make sure there is some support at TPAC
… it's probably naturally accomplishable
… this feels cheap, I might make sure we're accounting for growth in the future it
… let's take it to W3M
sheila: Once we take it to W3M we could add a travel budget
Liz: Possibly have an expenses line
… for documents and such
sheila: Agreed, I think the thing people will be most resistant to is the ombuds
… easier pitch for mediators and investigators
… anything we can do as a budget across roles might help
… but I understand
wendyreid: Travel for ombuds should be considered, since we'd want at least one present at TPAC
Ralph: Agreed with cwilso's thanks for putting this together, look at other orgs
… what do they do in terms of stipends or compensation
sheila: I can find some corrolaries
Liz: Add those items to the budget, and I'll look at investigators and mediators
… try and find some US based ones
… anything else on that?
ombuds vs mediator vs investigation vs escalation of criminal activity - how should W3C approach these?
Liz: Next thing, my attempt at refining the roles
… four levels
… ombudsperson, entry level
… a union rep of sorts, give advice, help with CEPC, provide support
… signpost other areas of information or service
… they themselves don't resolve issues
Ralph: That's an interesting distinction
… between ombud and mediator
… I think they are currently combined in our current process
… the waypost role
… is consistent with the stipend discussed
Liz: I think it would be
… in my experience, as a union rep, the caseload was consistently 20+ people
Ralph: And no mediation
Liz: Yes, I just attended meetings, and supported
… it would also require more training
… would the training we're considering include mediation?
Ralph: I wonder if the budget is sufficient if we're considering this as separate from the mediator role
sheila: I thought of it as separate
… I don't know of any circumstances where an ombud would also serve as mediator
… I think mediation transcends the ombud role
… some of these points are qualifications
… are these expectations?
Liz: Yes this would be part of the roles
cwilso: In the past, systems I've been a part of haven't had this disctinction
… I think the union rep analogy is helpful
… I think there's a line you cross when you try to resolve an issue
… you would need more training
… I wonder how much of what you put with ombuds
… would be innate to other roles
… I'm not sure if we offer too many roles to people if they'll know how to interact with the system
Liz: It's definitely a risk
… there's a number of options in my department
… and it confuses people
… the difference is
… where you can have an internal volunteer vs needing a paid professional
… where they are trained to resolve issues
… in other orgs, we have a top layer to help interpret or understand
… ombuds serve there
… in terms of conflict, you don't want to have people who are involved
… depending on the issue, people will not trust an internal view of the issue
… they'll assume bad faith
… perceived history
… to get around it, you bring in someone external
… bring someone in who doesn't care about the context or relationships
… hopefully, 90% of the cases are handled by ombuds, and the remaining 10% go on to mediation
cwilso: I think it makes sense, udnerstanding how frequently certain roles are brought in
… in some cases a chair could take a role
… I sent a mail about this to the list last week
… the role we're taking on with ombuds is understanding and applying CEPC
… if it's not the chair, within the group, we'll need someone outside with experience
<Ralph> [Chris's document "Improving Standards of Behavior in Standards Discussions" ]
cwilso: providing impartial advice is a challenge
… I'm just trying to think through how you easily explain this process to someone who has a problem
… basically, go get an ombud
… they can steer you through the process
Liz: These are just definitions for now
… there's no context
sheila: Complicating factor here, most of the time it's a progression
… part of the value in an ombud, is giving someone more than one option of someone to turn to when they have an issue
… it would be ok for someone to leapfrog the ombud if they feel they need someone else
… we want to include language explaining it's ok, but here is the process
<tzviya> +1 to sheila
sheila: from the DEI lens, you want people to have options
<cwilso> +1
Liz: Exactly how it works in our org
<Ralph> +1 to Sheila's points
Liz: you can start with your manager, but if it's your manager that is the issue, you can go to other places
… it's never one or the other
… here are the optiosn
… I think we'd emphasize talking to an ombuds first
… because investigation and mediation will have a cost
Ralph: Thanks Liz
… this is a useful distinction between the roles
… I value your experience
… ombuds as a union rep, not an unreasonable analogy
… but it breaks down for me, because our community doesn't have the same employee/employer relationship
… this does help, we have to distinguish those who are expected to provide advice
… you approach the people you know who have this knowledge
… my concern, in Feb, when we first discussed the budget, the number of hours
… included mediation in the estimate
… they are combined currently in W3C
… I'm worried about the estimate
Liz: I think it'll be slightly impossible to project time since we don't have previous data
… we won't know until this is in place
… I don't necessarily think it's bad to combine the roles
… it does limit the pool of candidates
Ralph: Not disagreeing, but the time estimates might need to change
Liz: Maybe having a combined budget can help with this breakdown
… Mediator, chairs can serve this role but require training
<cwilso> strong +1 that chairs should have mediator training
Liz: Investigator, this is a serious allegation, require a professional
… empowered to investigate
… interviewing, gathering evidence
… within the procedure we've written, their report goes to W3M for disciplinary action
… how this is handled can be done different ways
… you would likely want an external party to do this
… final one, if there is a crime, you report to police
… where do you report it?
… if its online, and they are from a different country, complicated
sheila: Is there a world where we can explore alternatives
… to the police? Or assuming a solution
… international nature makes this complex
… alternatives to the police
Liz: Just initial impressions
… most extreme cases
… but there could be alternatives
sheila: I wonder if there is a world where we can find someone to help guide someone to find the solution for this
tzviya: I had envisioned this, especially for certain crimes
… it can be unclear where the point going to law enforcement is needed
… mediators and other roles can be trained to know when reporting needs to occur
… someone serving as a victims advocate or directing to one
… international, it can be more difficult and can be traumatic
… asking someone to help you can help, but should be able to provide advice and guidance
… and there's some cases when reporting is mandatory
Liz: As part of ombuds training, include something like knowing when law enforcement is required
tzviya: I don't think we can have mediators be exclusively chairs
… One of the things we could attempt to determine
… if the role of ombud and mediator should be distinct roles
… are we intentionally merging them
… what does the training look like
… are we offering more training to alternate roles
Liz: We had some of this discussion, we are leaning towards separate
… we'd need to make more revisions and adjust the budget
… other thought, looking at all of these roles as a total package in a budget proposal
Ralph: Liz convinced me that the roles should be separate
… in our multinational organization, illegal acts can happen in person and virtually
… in our international meetings, it's really important we provide information to the non-locals on what the appropriate resources are
… their expectations of LE in the place of the meeting may not be the same as their home
… one of our requirements for hosted meetings, ombuds are present
… and know what the local resources are and how best to advise on them
Liz: We should also remember, some of the things involved in the place may not have anything to do with W3C
… it would not be subject to any of our internal processes
… we'd still want to support them with advice or resources
… there are a number of nuances
Ralph: And we should be equipped to provide that advice
… there may be things that are unsafe to do even if they sound right
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask if we should write a mediator job description
tzviya: I wonder if we should next write a mediator job description
… and someone to put together a mediator budget
Liz: I can take some of it, if someone could look up mediation services in the US
sheila: I think there's a point at which, if you wish to seek legal recourse, we can connect you to a legal resource
… I'd be nervous about training people to directly deal with the law
… as Ralph said, depending on the country, race of the person, other factors, it can be very complex
… it's not included in the training plan
… we figure out internally within the W3C how to deal with those instead of leaving for the ombuds
Liz: I think most people as members would be on their own, separate from W3C. I do think we need to be clear about the boundaries
… we need W3C to fill in the remainder for what they are willing to do
… I do like at events like TPAC for the ombuds to be aware of what the options are
… that's an appropriate level of information to provide
… we need to write it out
sheila: We also need to be clear on what the bounds are
… what to do if a member is assaulted or something
… has that been discussed
tzviya: I'm on the queue about doing some kind of special training before events
… emergency services
… in terms of what is currently done today
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about special training for in-person events
tzviya: current ombuds, there is little formal information
… we formed a rapid response, but all that is local emergency services and an email
Ralph: In truth, I'm not aware of anything
tzviya: We have a lot of work to do
Liz: Immediate actions to write the descriptions and revise the budget
… reconvene when we have that and some place specifics figured out
tzviya: Can we discuss the month of april
… the meeting on 26th overlaps with the AC meeting
… we'd not be meeting at all this month
… we could schedule something on the 19th
wendyreid: We have tasks, we could work on our tasks and reconvene
tzviya: Ok, next meeting in May
… we can all keep in touch!