IRC log of wot-script on 2022-03-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:01:35 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-wot-script-irc

11:01:45 [kaz]

meeting: WoT Scripting API

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present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Jan_Romann

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present+ Daniel_Peintner

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present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima

11:06:48 [JKRhb]

scribenick: JKRhb

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TOPIC: Previous minutes

11:07:05 [dape]

-> https://www.w3.org/2022/03/07-wot-script-minutes.html

11:07:16 [kaz]

s/html/html March-7/

11:07:27 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

11:07:28 [JKRhb]

dp: (Reviews the minutes)

11:07:33 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:07:33 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-wot-script-minutes.html kaz

11:07:38 [JKRhb]

... Minutes look good to me

11:07:54 [JKRhb]

... didn't see any issues to correct

11:08:04 [JKRhb]

... propose making them public

11:08:18 [JKRhb]

There are no objections

11:08:27 [JKRhb]

topic: Quick Updates

11:08:41 [JKRhb]

dp: I would like to summarize the testfest/plugfest

11:08:48 [JKRhb]

... there is still some cleanup to be done

11:09:07 [JKRhb]

... unfortunately, we didn't test the Scripting API in its entirety

11:09:37 [JKRhb]

... I have the online things running, though, and updated them with the latest node-wot version

11:09:54 [JKRhb]

... did anyone else notice anything?

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11:10:27 [JKRhb]

ca: I didn't have time, unfortunately. I was thinking about stress testing node-wot in the context of MQTT

11:11:51 [JKRhb]

https://pub.dev/packages/dart_wot

11:13:03 [JKRhb]

jr: I have a scripting API implementation written in Dart that could be tested and be added to the list of implementations

11:15:37 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:15:37 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-wot-script-minutes.html kaz

11:15:48 [JKRhb]

topic: PRs

11:15:57 [kaz]

present+ Zoltan_Kis

11:15:59 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

11:15:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-wot-script-minutes.html kaz

11:16:24 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 381

11:16:35 [kaz]

chair: Daniel

11:16:40 [JKRhb]

dp: PR is still stalled

11:17:24 [kaz]

i|PR is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-scripting-api/pull/381 PR 381 - feat: reintroduce "local" discovery method|

11:17:46 [JKRhb]

ca: We need to check the current status of the Discovery Specification and look into if "local" should be used

11:18:12 [JKRhb]

dp: We could also discuss moving discovery to the ConsumedThing class

11:18:42 [JKRhb]

... currently we are mostly a wrapper around the Thing

11:18:51 [JKRhb]

ca: You mean the Directory API, right?

11:20:05 [JKRhb]

dp: Correct. There were points made by Zoltan if we should base the directory discovery solely on the TD

11:20:33 [zkis]

q+

11:21:13 [JKRhb]

ca: We should have another look into the Discovery Specification. Maybe we are a bit too late and can't do anything about it anymore

11:22:00 [JKRhb]

zk: Discover method is not a complete match for the Discovery Specification

11:23:42 [JKRhb]

... currently we only support Directory. You are right that we could get rid of the directory method if we use the TD. For the sake of convenience we could keep it. We need to make clear what is what.

11:24:12 [JKRhb]

... our Discovery API is not addressing the introduction phase, therefore we might need a different operational mode

11:24:49 [JKRhb]

... we can currently only use the operational mode, i. e. the environment is already set up

11:25:38 [JKRhb]

... in order to support local discovery, you need different hooks

11:26:23 [kaz]

q?

11:26:25 [kaz]

ack z

11:26:26 [JKRhb]

... interactions with the local hardware are problem in cases like bluetooth

11:27:25 [JKRhb]

... for bluetooth, for example, you would need some kind of binding or bridge

11:27:55 [cris]

q+

11:28:46 [JKRhb]

... the Group needs to decide whether we want to support local discovery or if we should call what we already have "provisioning", for example

11:30:02 [JKRhb]

dp: If we don't have the local discovery and we only have the Directory then we could get rid of the discover method

11:30:42 [JKRhb]

ca: I am okay with saying that Discovery methods are out of scope of Discovery API

11:31:55 [JKRhb]

... however, how do you let the introduction layer talk to the Scripting layer?

11:33:38 [JKRhb]

zk: If we have two runtimes, one running in provisioning and one running in operational mode. After the introduction phase you would have an URL that could be passed to the Scripting API. This URL might result in a URL

11:35:02 [JKRhb]

... for security reasons we cannot simply query all URLs. We need to formulate use cases for discovery.

11:35:19 [JKRhb]

ca: Directory is more or less the trivial scenario, real world is more complex

11:36:17 [JKRhb]

zk: We could have a well known entry point that could map to initializing the Discovery process

11:36:42 [JKRhb]

... we should avoid side effects

11:37:07 [JKRhb]

dp: Let's assume we have the runtimes: Even with the API I am unsure how to describe this

11:37:48 [JKRhb]

... how do transfer information from one to the other?

11:38:15 [JKRhb]

ca: That is what Zoltan was referring to. We currently lack implementations

11:38:55 [zkis]

q?

11:39:06 [JKRhb]

... there is an implementation by Ben Francis' (Web Things) that uses multicast DNS

11:39:32 [JKRhb]

dp: In node-wot we never made it to implementing the discovery methods

11:39:38 [cris]

q+

11:39:51 [JKRhb]

zk: I think the reason was that it was ambigious.

11:40:29 [JKRhb]

... current approach is good enough in my opinion, Discovery Object can jumpstart discovery

11:40:33 [dape]

q+

11:40:56 [JKRhb]

... if we make the Discovery object a Promise than we can jumpstart it

11:42:52 [JKRhb]

jr: I implemented direct and multicast methods

11:43:23 [cris]

ack c

11:43:45 [JKRhb]

zk: Means we can implement it, we should look into how to integrate it in the API

11:44:13 [JKRhb]

... we should see how Web Things uses Multicast DNS

11:44:57 [JKRhb]

... maybe we can have a convenience method (in node-wot)

11:45:39 [JKRhb]

ca: Maybe we can use a approach like dependency injection

11:46:15 [kaz]

q?

11:46:34 [JKRhb]

zk: If we have local we could define what kind of "local" we mean.

11:46:51 [JKRhb]

... is very privacy critical, though

11:47:33 [JKRhb]

dp: Well-known concept might not work out if you have multiple instances of TDs, for example

11:48:48 [JKRhb]

zk: I think we should take it from a implementation point of view

11:49:36 [JKRhb]

... we have direct and multicast, we should see how local can be supported

11:50:27 [JKRhb]

... we can include a note in the specification that it is a experimental API

11:50:50 [JKRhb]

jr: I will try to integrate my discovery approaches in node-wot experimentally

11:51:03 [cris]

q+

11:51:08 [dape]

ack dape

11:53:12 [JKRhb]

topic: Consumer cleanup behavior

11:53:21 [JKRhb]

ca: We have a problem in node-wot that CoAP clients are not being closed which causes hanging

11:53:43 [JKRhb]

... should we add something like a destroy method to the ConsumedThing?

11:55:12 [JKRhb]

... socket is currently not being closed. Problem is not limited to CoAP, however, also relevant for WebSockets, for example

11:57:11 [JKRhb]

zk: We discussed adding a destroy method to the ConsumedThing a few years ago

11:57:37 [JKRhb]

ca: If we add a close/destroy method then we would introduce a state

11:59:01 [JKRhb]

zk: We could specify an InteractionOption that a Consumer should keep connections open.

11:59:36 [JKRhb]

ca: In the case of HTTP connections are always closed after a request

11:59:57 [JKRhb]

zk: We can define a default value

12:01:00 [JKRhb]

dp: In the case of CoAP it might be a library issue. For WebSockets keeping connections open might be useful. For CoAP or HTTP is should not be used.

12:01:46 [kaz]

q+

12:01:48 [kaz]

ack c

12:01:58 [JKRhb]

zk: A destructor is useful. The interaction option might actually expose too much procotol-specific information

12:02:17 [kaz]

ack k

12:02:27 [JKRhb]

... caching connections in the case of WebSockets etc. will be useful

12:02:49 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Scripting_API_WebConf#28_March_2022

12:02:53 [kaz]

[adjourned]

12:02:57 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

12:02:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-wot-script-minutes.html kaz

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