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13:16:26 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-irc
13:16:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:16:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
13:16:31 <trackbot> Date: 28 March 2022
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13:16:52 <sharon> zakim, clear agenda
13:16:52 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:17:04 <sharon> chair: sharon
13:17:34 <sharon> agenda+  Naming progress, status of EO effort - https://github.com/w3c/wai-personalization-standards/issues/9
13:17:51 <sharon> agenda+ Follow-up on i18n issue #144 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144
13:18:32 <sharon> agenda+ Issue 202 regarding Visible Indicators on 2.2 - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/202
13:19:03 <sharon> agenda+ Follow-up with potential implementers
13:19:21 <sharon> agenda+ Planning future COGA meetings on Our Other Two Modules
13:26:09 <sharon> agenda?
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13:58:18 <sharon> agenda?
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14:06:02 <mike_beganyi> present+
14:06:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
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14:07:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:08:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:09:07 <Matthew_Atkinson> scribe: Matthew_Atkinson
14:09:22 <janina> present+
14:09:23 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:09:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:09:24 <sharon> present+
14:09:24 <Roy> present+
14:10:26 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
14:10:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 --  Naming progress, status of EO effort - https://github.com/w3c/wai-personalization-standards/issues/9 -- taken up [from sharon]
14:11:28 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: Any further comments? Becky added hers.
14:12:22 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Propose that we have an official name including the 'WAI-' prefix.
14:12:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: I like Becky's suggestion.
14:12:34 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: +1
14:13:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: It's a little smaller in scope than 'adapt' which is very general. We are one way to adapt, but not the only way. Plus in the US there is a well-known group working on transportation barriers called 'Adapt'.
14:14:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: Adaptable Personalization Techniques
14:14:14 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: What else would fit as a T?
14:14:18 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:14:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Could also be 'Technology'
14:14:27 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: +1
14:14:39 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: It wouldn't restrict us; has a meaning in WCAG space.
14:15:58 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:16:51 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: I think we should solicit Lisa's opinion.
14:17:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Also +1 to something other than 'Techiques' for the T (thinking, in addition to the above, it would get confused with things like authoring practices).
14:17:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> Adaptive Personalizeable Technologies
14:18:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Propose 'Personalizable' as this, as EO pointed out, is the correct, adjective, form.
14:19:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
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14:19:33 <CharlesL> present+
14:19:36 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:21:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: It seems rather generic. Thinking on 'adaptable' vs 'adaptive'—is it a tautology?
14:21:35 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Need to check discussion again for reasoning behind both.
14:21:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: I love 'adapt' becuase it says what it is.
14:22:16 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Agree it says it's very broad and ACK the concern.
14:22:52 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... ACK is a known public advocacy group.
14:22:56 <CharlesL> q+
14:23:21 <Matthew_Atkinson> ... This standard is called ADAPT because it's powerful and we want to get it out there. The association with the other organization would likely only be made by insiders.
14:23:36 <sharon> ack CharlesL
14:23:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: +1 to Lionel_Wolberger
14:24:46 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: Nobody will remember what APT stands for, but people will remember what ADAPT stands for. It means something and is easily recognizable. Not perfect but so much better than trying to come up with an acronym as Matthew_Atkinson mentioned.
14:25:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: I understand both viewpoints; shall we consult on list?
14:25:18 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: I propose we should include 'WAI-' regardless. [ sharon and Lionel_Wolberger agree ]
14:25:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to WAI-ADAPT
14:25:27 <Matthew_Atkinson> +1
14:25:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: +1
14:26:17 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We should canvas for WAI-ADAPT and WAI-APT. We should run this up to management. Not ready for CfC until we have a decision from our TF. We should consult staff contacts, EO and WAI.
14:26:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Meanwhile, yes please canvas the group.
14:27:15 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: This is a call for consensus (CfC)
14:27:26 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/consensus (CfC)/consensus (CfC)?/
14:27:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Yes, within the TF.
14:27:41 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: Is the question about prefering one or both.
14:27:54 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: The question, per W3C process, is can you live with the alternative?
14:28:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: (I can)
14:28:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> DRAFTING Dear Personalization Task Force Member,
14:28:19 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We want people to weigh in between the two, but say if you can live with the alternative—and if not, why not?
14:28:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> This is a Call for consensus regarding our Task Force stand regarding the name for our standard.
14:28:51 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: We want to make sure we hear from Lisa. [ scribe note: ensuring John is included was already discussed; I didn't catch up ]
14:29:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: Should we also get COGA's approval? This started with them.
14:29:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please reply with you position: (A) WAI-ADAPT, (B) WAI-APT, (C) I can live with either one
14:29:47 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We'll consider this. Some COGA members are active APA members too, and can weigh in.
14:29:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> Note that this name will be the prefix for the modules.
14:30:06 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:30:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> WAI-ADAPT: Content Module, WAI-ADAPT: Help Module, WAI-ADAPT Tools Module
14:30:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> WAI-APT: Content Module, WAI-APT: Help Module, WAI-APT Tools Module
14:30:51 <CharlesL> q+
14:30:54 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina:  We need to make sure this is all clear, and tested (with the group).
14:31:03 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:31:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> And the name of the task force will also follow on this decision: Either W3C WAI-ADAPT Task Force or W3C WAI-APT Task Force
14:32:28 <sharon> q?
14:32:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please reply with you position: (A) WAI-ADAPT, (B) WAI-APT   and also reply with your position regarding this decision (X) I only consent to my choice or (Y) I can live with either one
14:32:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: The question needs to be one or the other, plus whether you can live with the other if it's chosen, and why.
14:33:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Think we should spell them out (might need regexes...)
14:33:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please reply with your choice of A or B, (A) WAI-ADAPT, (B) WAI-APT   and also reply with your position regarding this decision X or Y  (X) I only consent to my choice or (Y) I can live with either one
14:33:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We can say "such as" re the expansions.
14:34:08 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: Wording needs to ask for reasons.
14:34:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please reply with your choice of A or B, (A) WAI-ADAPT, (B) WAI-APT. If your preference is not the majority decision, can you live with the other option? Yes/No
14:35:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: As CharlesL says, there should be a 'because' in there.
14:35:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please reply with your choice of A or B, (A) WAI-ADAPT, (B) WAI-APT. If your preference is not the majority decision, can you live with the other option? Yes/No.  If you answer "No" please explain.
14:35:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: +1
14:35:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: We need to give possible expansion(s).
14:35:58 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: +1 but for ADAPT there doesn't need to be one.
14:37:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: I thought the T stood for 'transformable'
14:37:12 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We need a noun.
14:37:27 <sharon> ack CharlesL
14:38:06 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: When we send this out, should it go to the public or private list? [scribe note: 'private' probably refers to admin; public but members only can post]
14:38:21 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Lists are always world-readable. Some are only writeable by members.
14:38:30 <Matthew_Atkinson> ack CharlesL
14:38:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
14:39:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> ================================
14:39:20 <sharon> ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:39:27 <Lionel_Wolberger> This is a Call for consensus regarding our Task Force stand regarding the name for our standard.
14:39:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> This is a Call for consensus regarding our Task Force stand regarding the name for our standard.
14:39:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> Two names have made it to this final decision. Below please find each name, and how it will read as a suffix:module.
14:40:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> WAI-ADAPT.  WAI-ADAPT: Content Module, WAI-ADAPT: Help Module, WAI-ADAPT Tools Module
14:40:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> WAI-APT. WAI-APT: Content Module, WAI-APT: Help Module, WAI-APT Tools Module APT possible expansion, "Adaptable Personalizeable Technologies"
14:40:35 <CharlesL> s/suffix/prefix
14:40:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please reply with your choice of A or B, (A) WAI-ADAPT, (B) WAI-APT. If your preference is not the majority decision, can you live with the other option? Yes/No.  If you answer "No" please explain.
14:40:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> ================
14:40:52 <Matthew_Atkinson> Lionel_Wolberger: any objections to this?
14:41:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We should say that we're not expanding ADAPT.
14:41:05 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:41:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:41:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> (No expansion necessary for ADAPT -- it is just "ADAPT")
14:41:31 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:42:49 <sharon> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:42:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> Still digressing, look at this book cover (saw it today on a shelf) https://www.amazon.com/Hummus-Route-Journey-Between-Cities-ebook/dp/B08GV45HV6/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=124OW3D21FCO3&keywords=hummus+book&qid=1648478539&sprefix=hummus+book%2Caps%2C190&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySjlCNFdUOEhXWVlVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODg3OTE2Mlg5SlNTUDNNWkE5MCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTI2MDI3Mk03M0tSTVlWQTNIMyZ3aWRnZXR[CUT]
14:44:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Something to think about: how would we intro this at conferences, and maintain the Personalization connection? Is ADAPT 'ADAptive Personalization Technologies' when expanded?
14:44:25 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We should point this out in the CfC.
14:45:07 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Not suggesting we use the mixed case when writing; just thinking about how to introduce the Personalization connection.
14:46:29 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: This is for the first slide in conference talks. We can say the expansion works for either one.
14:48:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ===============================
14:48:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> Please note that these are not both abbreviations that need to be expanded. No expansion necessary for ADAPT -- it is just "ADAPT".
14:48:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> We propose this candidate possible expansion of APT: "Adaptable Personalizeable Technologies". Note that this expansion can also be used with "ADAPT": 'ADAptable Personalizeable Technologies.'
14:48:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> ==============================
14:48:28 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson: Have we decided what will be in the <h1> in the spec?
14:48:37 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: We haven't, and we aren't now. We can do another CfC later, and run by EO.
14:48:42 <Matthew_Atkinson> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:50:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ===========================
14:50:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> We propose this potential possible expansion for either of the above: "Adaptable Personalizeable Technologies". This expansion can be applied to "APT" or "ADAPT": 'ADAptable Personalizeable Technologies.'
14:50:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> ===================
14:50:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> We propose this potential possible expansion for either of the above: "Adaptable Personalizeable Technologies".
14:50:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> =======================
14:52:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
14:52:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Follow-up on i18n issue #144 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/144 -- taken up [from sharon]
14:53:04 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: Any updates?
14:53:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: Roy any updates?
14:53:13 <Matthew_Atkinson> Roy: None yet.
14:53:44 <Matthew_Atkinson> Roy: Heard from i18n's team contact that this issue is atop their queue.
14:53:51 <Matthew_Atkinson> Roy: Suggest we wait one more week.
14:54:01 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: When do they meet?
14:54:09 <Matthew_Atkinson> Roy: Will confirm.
14:54:21 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:54:32 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: The group is really good when they get together; we (APA) have a good relationship with them.
14:54:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:56:02 <Matthew_Atkinson> janina: OK to wait a week? Need to finalize name (and expansion) before CR (this is something Shawn finds important and I agree).
14:56:41 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda?
14:57:24 <CharlesL> q+
14:57:51 <sharon> ack CharlesL
14:58:00 <Matthew_Atkinson> topic: TPAC
14:58:20 <Matthew_Atkinson> CharlesL: I am planning to attend.
14:58:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/I am planning to attend./I am planning to attend, barring further outbreaks etc./
14:58:54 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:59:24 <Matthew_Atkinson> topic: Implementations
14:59:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> sharon: Work ongoing to discuss with potential implementors.
14:59:40 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
15:00:07 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, bye
15:00:07 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been mike_beganyi, Matthew_Atkinson, Lionel_Wolberger, janina, sharon, Roy, CharlesL
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15:00:09 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/28-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
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