13:08:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
13:08:17 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-irc
13:08:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:08:22 <trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
13:08:22 <trackbot> Date: 21 March 2022
13:08:33 <snidersd> agenda?
13:08:54 <snidersd> zakim, clear agenda
13:08:54 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:10:20 <sharon> chair: sharon
13:11:32 <sharon> agenda?
13:11:37 <sharon> agenda+ Naming progress, status of EO effort
13:11:59 <sharon> agenda+ Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144)
13:12:22 <sharon> agenda+ CSUN feedback
13:12:41 <sharon> agenda+ Issue 202 regarding Visible Indicators on 2.2
13:12:56 <sharon> agenda+ Planning future COGA meetings on Our Other Two Modules
13:13:00 <sharon> agenda?
13:36:10 <Roy> Roy has joined #personalization
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13:56:55 <janina> janina has joined #personalization
13:57:04 <janina> agenda?
13:57:11 <janina> present+
13:59:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:01:52 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #personalization
14:03:28 <becky> becky has joined #personalization
14:03:30 <CharlesL> present+
14:04:03 <Matthew_Atkinson> Matthew_Atkinson has joined #personalization
14:04:33 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
14:04:39 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, who's here?
14:04:39 <Zakim> Present: janina, CharlesL, mike_beganyi, Matthew_Atkinson, Roy, Brent, lisas, Lionel_Wolberger, BrianE, shawn, sharon, kevin, CarlosD, MarkPalmer, krisanne, Sylvie, Estella, LauraK
14:04:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot
14:04:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda?
14:05:46 <janina> zakim, next item?
14:05:46 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, janina.
14:05:52 <janina> zakim, next item?
14:05:52 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, janina.
14:06:02 <janina> zakim, next item
14:06:02 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from sharon]
14:06:10 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:06:10 <Zakim> Present: janina, CharlesL, mike_beganyi, Matthew_Atkinson, Roy, Brent, lisas, Lionel_Wolberger, BrianE, shawn, sharon, kevin, CarlosD, MarkPalmer, krisanne, Sylvie, Estella, LauraK
14:06:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot
14:06:29 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:06:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Roy
14:06:56 <Roy> RRSAgent, make log public
14:07:01 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:07:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Roy
14:07:33 <CharlesL> Present: CharlesL
14:07:44 <CharlesL> zakim, who's here?
14:07:44 <Zakim> Present: CharlesL
14:07:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot
14:07:50 <janina> present+
14:07:55 <becky> present+
14:07:55 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
14:07:58 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:07:58 <Zakim> Present: CharlesL, janina, becky, Matthew_Atkinson
14:08:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see Matthew_Atkinson, becky, CharlesL, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, Roy, RRSAgent, Joshue108, jamesn, hadleybeeman, Zakim, trackbot
14:09:40 <becky> scribe: becky
14:10:52 <Lionel> Lionel has joined #personalization
14:11:04 <Lionel> agenda?
14:11:05 <becky> topic: CSUN debrief
14:11:22 <becky> topic: ERF
14:11:59 <becky> s/ERB/eBRF
14:12:10 <becky> topic: eBRF
14:15:21 <janina> q+
14:15:32 <becky> CharlesL : American printing house (APH) proposing a new standard for BRF (preformatted braille format). It isn't a formal standard but has been well adopted. Used similar to a PDF - preformatted. eBRG is an electronic format
14:16:15 <becky> CharlesL: eBRF is new standard, looks like an ePUB - zip file with mulitiple files with different types of content
14:17:02 <becky> CharlesL: proposal is a word document - pointed out it should be in github so people can comment;
14:17:48 <becky> CharlesL : looking at XHTML - probably shouldn't limit themselves and use HTML; Charles had concerns for some other missing pieces - no bulleted lists, no table of contents, etc
14:18:38 <Lionel> q?
14:18:47 <Lionel> present?
14:18:50 <becky> CharlesL: current owning group, APH,  doesn't want to own - thinking maybe W3C or Daisy to take this over
14:19:05 <Lionel> q?
14:19:18 <Lionel> ack shawn
14:19:18 <becky> CharlesL : others agree with additions I suggested
14:19:31 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:19:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Roy
14:20:32 <becky> janina: I would welcome this in APA, it is within scope, agree it needs to be more organized; Daisy seems like just another avenue into W3C since Daisy is engaged in ePUB
14:21:43 <Lionel> q?
14:23:02 <becky> Lionel : to clarify a comment about ARIA not being good for braille - how does that affect personalization as I explain personalization as ARIA for personalizing the page
14:23:35 <becky> janina: believe we need a more generic technology - ARIA is narrowly defined to work with Text to speech
14:25:21 <becky> s/generic technology/generic technology for accessibility
14:26:45 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:26:52 <becky> lionel: will wait for additional investigation by APA chairs before pursuing eBRF under APA
14:29:08 <becky> lionel: asked for relevance of braille given increase in TTS usage; Braille vendors indicated it is a literacy issue - some people are better at learning via written words vs. spoken word
14:29:33 <becky> janina: also have issues with mis-pronunciation issues with TTS
14:30:11 <becky> CharlesL : eBRF meeting was good - 30+ people from industry in attendance
14:30:19 <becky> topic: CSUN debrief
14:30:31 <Lionel> q?
14:30:35 <Lionel> ack janina
14:30:38 <Lionel> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:31:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, next item
14:31:43 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144) -- taken up [from sharon]
14:32:04 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, close this item
14:32:05 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
14:32:05 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:32:05 <Zakim> 3. CSUN feedback [from sharon]
14:32:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> zakim, take up item 3
14:32:10 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- CSUN feedback -- taken up [from sharon]
14:33:58 <becky> Lionel : my first CSUN, happy that I went; evangelized personalization and got positive response. spoke with Phill Jenkins from IBM and he was interested in working on an implementation
14:35:38 <becky> Lionel : Kit W from Salesforce was also interested in an implementation; Chuck and someone else from Oracle also expressed interest
14:36:39 <becky> lionel: Chuck Adams is person from Oracle. great presentation from Matthew
14:37:49 <Lionel> Lionel adds to the minutes: Trailhead salesforce (where Kit thinks he can do an implementation)
14:38:04 <becky> Matthew_Atkinson : lots of great conversations with AGWG chairs and others
14:39:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> https://www.easyreading.eu/
14:39:49 <becky> Matthew_Atkinson : Claus has a similar technology to personalization including AAC support; Easy reading EU project
14:40:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> s/Claus/Klaus/
14:40:34 <sharon> sharon has joined #personalization
14:40:48 <sharon> agenda?
14:41:09 <sharon> chair: sharon
14:41:28 <Matthew_Atkinson> Interim report from CSUN: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2022Mar/0020.html
14:41:39 <Matthew_Atkinson> rrsagent, make minutes
14:41:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
14:41:49 <becky> Matthew_Atkinson: rrsagent, make minutes
14:41:55 <becky> rrsagent, make minutes
14:41:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html becky
14:43:24 <becky> Lionel : will work with group to write up an "ask" from various folks about implementing personalization
14:45:30 <becky> sharon: will make sure folks at IBM are working together rather than silos
14:47:00 <becky> Matthew_Atkinson: sent an email to the list. it references implementation. people are asking that isn't there already a mechanism for implementing personalization - for example, rdf item props works now.
14:47:38 <becky> Lionel : RDF is not normative and that causes problems
14:48:30 <becky> Matthew_Atkinson : we get this by developer focused people; Lionel's answer is good but we need to be able to explain further
14:50:41 <becky> Matthew_Atkinson : Klaus W is interested in another broad discussion about the burden of responsibility between guideline, content authors, and AT.  People feel it is a burden on content authors and is extra work. one way to approach is to have a common framework for all a11y additions. Obviously that is a big discussion larger than this group
14:51:20 <becky> lionel: authoring load came up at the CSUN presentation and also in private conversations
14:51:37 <becky> Janina: we also heard this at TPAC
14:53:11 <becky> lionel: continual innovation everywhere - more Text to speech; magnification, etc. very exciting
14:53:34 <Matthew_Atkinson> agenda?
14:53:37 <becky> zakim, take up item 1
14:53:37 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from sharon]
14:54:04 <becky> zakim, take up item 2
14:54:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Content Module Implementations Status (Follow-up on i18n issue #144) -- taken up [from sharon]
14:54:17 <Roy> q+
14:54:25 <becky> janina: no response yet, I will take this up with APA chairs
14:54:26 <sharon> ack Roy
14:54:47 <becky> Roy: I spoke with I18N contact and he promised to bring that up with the group for feedback
14:57:07 <becky> zakim, take up  item 1
14:57:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Naming progress, status of EO effort -- taken up [from sharon]
14:58:20 <Matthew_Atkinson> https://github.com/w3c/wai-personalization-standards/issues/7
14:59:49 <becky> lionel: EO did have a formal process and made an official suggestion, ADAPT. We need to respond to that before throwing out other terms; I liked ADAPT; happy to hear other comments
15:00:35 <becky> rrsagent, make minutes
15:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html becky
15:00:56 <becky> zakim, bye
15:00:56 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been CharlesL, janina, becky, Matthew_Atkinson
15:00:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #personalization
15:01:48 <sharon> present+
15:02:09 <becky> becky: another suggestion for naming: APT - Adaptable Personalization Techniques
15:02:16 <becky> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/21-personalization-minutes.html becky
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