19:59:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
19:59:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/10-aria-at-irc
19:59:56 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria-at
20:00:20 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA And Assistive Technologies Community Group
20:00:33 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
20:00:36 <Matt_King> present+
20:00:42 <Sam> Sam has joined #aria-at
20:00:44 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
20:00:54 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
20:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/10-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
20:01:32 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-at
20:01:55 <jongund> present+ jongund
20:02:00 <Sam> present+
20:07:37 <jongund> scribe: jongund
20:07:51 <Matt_King> TOPIC: AT Version Collection Experience
20:07:55 <Rich_Noah> Rich_Noah has joined #aria-at
20:08:07 <Rich_Noah> present+
20:08:13 <jongund> MK: Two things to talk about
20:08:40 <jongund> MK: We are expected to start building the experience in the next spirit on March 21st
20:08:46 <jongund> MK: Rich?
20:09:16 <jongund> RN: One issue is having a good design by the 17th
20:10:16 <jongund> MK: This is a blocking feature for getting SR companies on board, ASYNC review
20:11:13 <jongund> ST: Isaac has been working on a design based on discussions in this group, there are some edge cases that need to be worked out
20:11:28 <jongund> ST: There are a few issues we could discuss here
20:11:38 <jongund> MK: Issues would be availabel early next week
20:11:48 <jongund> ST: That is the plan
20:12:21 <jongund> MK: We might not have a qourm next week
20:12:47 <jongund> ST: Hopefully get to a good place next week
20:13:01 <jongund> MK: We will encourage participation next week
20:13:12 <jongund> MK: Open issues we can discuss?
20:13:30 <jongund> ST: Publishing the results on the ARIA AT reports page
20:13:47 <jongund> ST: We need to be on the same on browser versions
20:14:26 <jongund> ST: We don't want an Admin manual updating the list, and there are issues with people using a difference browser to input content
20:14:41 <JoeHumbert> JoeHumbert has joined #aria-at
20:15:07 <jongund> MK: The second requirement, we should not use as a blocking issue, we can get it out there with other this issue
20:15:22 <jongund> ST: I don't think it will save us much time now
20:16:04 <jongund> ST: The admins browser making edits it could be different of the test, so automating getting it has some issues
20:16:16 <jongund> MK: We talked about have a prompt
20:16:20 <JoeHumbert> present+
20:16:47 <jongund> ST: In the current prompt would be leave the current value or switch to what I am doing now
20:17:33 <jongund> ST: So if we want to show a drop down, we could get an API on browser versions, maybe we care only about major versions
20:18:25 <jongund> MK: There maybe near and long term questions about the detail of the version
20:19:18 <jongund> MK: From a screen reader perspective will probably not need as much detail, where as browser developers will want more information
20:19:50 <jongund> ST: We cannot open up the field to random edits
20:20:02 <jongund> MK: We do not want manual editing at all
20:21:11 <jongund> MK: If the other option is recording ..
20:21:42 <jongund> ST: The user does not do anything about the browser and AT because that is part of the test
20:22:48 <jongund> ST: We have two ways of showing how may test pass, there are more than on person running a test and some people might change their browser version half way through a test
20:23:21 <jongund> MK: I have been thinking about these things, go to the ARIA-AT page ...
20:24:47 <jongund> MK: I am going to disclose menu, so I see from JAWS latest ..., choosing "complete results
20:25:03 <jongund> MK: There are headings for ever single test
20:26:11 <jongund> MK: These results are the same for every tester
20:27:45 <jongund> MK: For every one of these 30 test, we have like a run history collapasable section, with submission date information with browser and screen reader
20:28:18 <jongund> MK: We would have a place to see each test, when and who ran it, so a history of the page
20:29:03 <jongund> ST: Our goal is make the summary page as simple as possible
20:30:14 <jongund> ST: I agree knowing where the data comes from is useful, but the bigger issue is how to look the dependencies right now and in future test
20:30:37 <jongund> MK: You could make the run history to show prior tests
20:31:30 <jongund> ST: We can punt on it right now, but this is an important longer term issues on looking at time history, let's look at it sooner rather than later
20:32:14 <jongund> MK: When we are working with SR companies they will want information in a certain way
20:33:40 <jongund> ST: Already we are using latest for the reports, we are not losing data, a report might not include from same  screen reader
20:34:18 <jongund> MK: SR developers want to make sure the data is from the most recent version, they care about recency
20:34:46 <jongund> ST: It will be complicated with auto results, we will need some charts
20:35:24 <jongund> MK: We are mostly focusing getting screen reader companies in action
20:37:03 <jongund> ST: What do you need for reviewing the design, is it screen design or work flow, we need this for Issac to be able to provide the information needed
20:37:47 <jongund> ST: There is a very verbose way to do this, .....
20:37:54 <jongund> MK: That is good
20:38:14 <jongund> MK: We will have 3-4 people who cannot see the wireframes
20:39:00 <jongund> MK: Triaging remaining agenda items
20:39:09 <jongund> TOPIC: Updates
20:39:51 <jongund> MK: The sandbox will be changing through Tuesday next week, we need feedback by next Thursday
20:40:07 <jongund> RN: Just put the changes in =, no review from MK
20:40:45 <jongund> MK: I will look at the sandbox after the changes
20:41:00 <jongund> RN: We are tracking for the 16th, and we can send out a message
20:41:22 <jongund> MK: We might be able to deploy it quickly
20:42:00 <jongund> SS: I day for review is pretty short, we should have at least 2-4 days
20:42:28 <jongund> MK: Let's keep in mind that MK and JS are the primary people
20:42:42 <jongund> RN: I did see a merge I will check on timing
20:43:07 <jongund> TOPIC: When can report data be deleted?
20:43:21 <jongund> MK: 637, how big of an issue is it
20:43:51 <jongund> ST: It is pretty important, the issue is still relevant
20:44:06 <jongund> MK: Let's not discuss 637 right now
20:45:08 <jongund> TOPIC: Issue 638
20:45:15 <Matt_King> issue 638: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/638
20:45:55 <jongund> MK: This is related to opening a select only combobox
20:46:47 <jongund> MK: In a standard HTML select, NVDA announces it as a combobox, may not hear size and position information
20:47:46 <jongund> MK: A standard SELECT doesn't have a separate list
20:48:13 <jongund> JH: I said it failed since it did not say combobox
20:48:22 <jongund> MF: List is close
20:48:34 <jongund> JH: There is a difference between a list and comobox
20:48:46 <jongund> MK: There is a technical difference
20:49:25 <jongund> JH: If list is acceptable, then I can change my result
20:50:12 <jongund> MK: This kind of flexibility, it conveys the concept of combobox, JAWS may say listbox and then NVDA says list, that is confusing
20:51:54 <jongund> JH: I pose a question, is list fine?
20:52:33 <jongund> MF: I am fine for this one, since it is consistent within NVDA for other similar situation
20:53:01 <jongund> MF: But is this good in general for SR to usefdifferent terms for the same content
20:53:25 <jongund> MK: If we feel like it could lead to user confusion
20:53:40 <jongund> MK: ARIA has a 140 semantics
20:54:49 <jongund> MK: They should not have to distinguish between all them, so SR are trying to simplified, since the announcements are describing the visual ..
20:56:05 <jongund> JG: Developers also have expectations on what should be spoken
20:56:20 <jongund> MK: We should be telling developers when things are good
20:56:38 <jongund> JH: The consensus is that list is fine
20:56:52 <jongund> MK: NVDA is being consistent with its self too
20:58:09 <jongund> MK: This is going to happen alot, how does the issue title explain the issue
20:58:54 <jongund> MK: I wonder if we need a record or a table of equivalence so people can see these issues
21:01:25 <jongund> Discussion of why edited test are still failing
21:13:12 <jongund> Discussion of the "selected" assertion in single select lists
21:13:26 <jongund> MK: We need to make sure they can find out the state
21:13:38 <jongund> rrasgent, make minutes
21:13:45 <jongund> rrsagent, make minutes
21:13:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/10-aria-at-minutes.html jongund
22:25:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-at