IRC log of wot on 2022-02-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:00:11 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wot
- 13:00:11 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-irc
- 13:00:13 [McCool]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#23_February_2022
- 13:00:19 [kaz]
- meeting: WoT-IG/WG
- 13:00:26 [kaz]
- chair: McCool/Sebastian
- 13:00:35 [kaz]
- presnt+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool
- 13:01:55 [ktoumura]
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- 13:02:00 [kaz]
- present+ Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally
- 13:02:48 [zkis]
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- 13:02:58 [McCool]
- topic: minutes
- 13:03:00 [McCool]
- https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html
- 13:05:30 [dape]
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- 13:05:30 [kaz]
- s/https/-> https/
- 13:05:35 [kaz]
- s/html/html Feb-16/
- 13:05:55 [kaz]
- present+ Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Zoltan_Kis
- 13:06:08 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:06:11 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:06:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:06:27 [zkis]
- present+ Zoltan_Kis
- 13:06:33 [zkis]
- scribenick:zkis
- 13:06:57 [zkis]
- Topic: past minutes
- 13:07:49 [kaz]
- present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima, Sebastian_Kaebisch
- 13:08:11 [zkis]
- MM: small typo s/late/wait
- 13:08:30 [zkis]
- no objections
- 13:08:40 [zkis]
- MM: minutes can be published
- 13:08:50 [zkis]
- Topic: quick updates
- 13:09:20 [zkis]
- ML: architecture meeting canceled this week
- 13:09:39 [zkis]
- MM: no editors' call this week
- 13:10:13 [zkis]
- MM: consistency check between the documents still ongoing
- 13:10:21 [dape]
- q+
- 13:10:33 [zkis]
- ML: indeed, no recent discussions about this
- 13:10:53 [zkis]
- ML: terminology has been discussed
- 13:10:57 [kaz]
- q?
- 13:11:06 [zkis]
- ML: editors of Scripting and Discovery should take a look
- 13:11:35 [zkis]
- MM: we will discuss in the editors' meeting with the task forces
- 13:11:51 [zkis]
- DP: from Scripting parts, small changes needed, already agreed
- 13:11:59 [dape]
- ack dape
- 13:12:07 [zkis]
- ML: PRs would be preferable, otherwise issues
- 13:12:11 [McCool]
- MM: also probably a PR from discovery
- 13:12:36 [zkis]
- Subtopic: WoT Japanese CG
- 13:13:21 [zkis]
- TM: some discussions, including web API
- 13:13:39 [zkis]
- Subtopic: conformance statements
- 13:13:42 [dape]
- q+
- 13:13:51 [zkis]
- MM: we have a resolution to proceed with this
- 13:14:06 [zkis]
- MM: KA, MM and SK discussed the process
- 13:14:30 [kaz]
- s/some discussions, including web API/planning to hold an open event about ECHONET liaison. the agenda is being finalized and should include the relationship between WoT and ECHONET Lite Web API based on concrete use cases./
- 13:14:37 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:14:39 [cris]
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- 13:14:47 [zkis]
- ... we can have normative statements in Notes, but it's the WG terms not the W3C terms, therefore compliance will be handled by the WG
- 13:14:52 [dape]
- ack dape
- 13:15:26 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:15:32 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:15:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:15:39 [zkis]
- MM: today we can have a resolution and notify the AC reps from the WG
- 13:15:56 [mlagally_]
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- 13:16:06 [mlagally_]
- q+
- 13:16:07 [dape]
- q+
- 13:16:12 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:16:23 [zkis]
- KA: this is not required by the W3C process, but the Notes are not covered by the IPR statement, so indeed the AC reps should be consulted
- 13:16:32 [kaz]
- q?
- 13:16:37 [McCool]
- proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objects
- 13:16:45 [zkis]
- s/IPR statement/IPR policy
- 13:17:18 [McCool]
- proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objects; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
- 13:17:27 [zkis]
- ML: not clear what is going on and why are we doing something like a REC spec but which is not a REC spec
- 13:17:45 [zkis]
- q+
- 13:17:51 [zkis]
- ack mla
- 13:18:13 [zkis]
- KA: the spec could say it is not covered by the W3C patent policy
- 13:18:35 [zkis]
- MM: OK, we should quote the exact text and let people have feedback on it
- 13:19:02 [zkis]
- KA: the text is the same as for WoT Use Cases, but the content of Scripting is different
- 13:19:12 [zkis]
- MM: if any AC rep objects, we need to re-discuss it
- 13:19:18 [kaz]
- [[
- 13:19:18 [kaz]
- This document was published by the Web of Things Interest Group as a Group Note using the Note track.
- 13:19:18 [kaz]
- Group Notes are not endorsed by W3C nor its Members.
- 13:19:18 [kaz]
- The W3C Patent Policy does not carry any licensing requirements or commitments on this document.
- 13:19:19 [kaz]
- This document is governed by the 2 November 2021 W3C Process Document.
- 13:19:19 [kaz]
- ]]
- 13:19:20 [zkis]
- ... or make it on the REC track
- 13:19:30 [kaz]
- s/... or/MM: or/
- 13:20:01 [zkis]
- ML: I would support the REC track, since it's more clear
- 13:20:23 [zkis]
- MM: there are also problems with that - we need a non-normative draft that may use normative languages
- 13:20:25 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:20:45 [zkis]
- ML: what is the publication schedule, is it aligned with the other specs?
- 13:20:56 [kaz]
- present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Michael_Koster
- 13:21:01 [zkis]
- DP: usually a bit lagging behind the other specs (TD, Discovery etc)
- 13:21:02 [kaz]
- ack d
- 13:21:17 [zkis]
- DP: the Note track also exists for CGs, so it is not new
- 13:21:36 [zkis]
- ... the Note track doesn't mean we cannot switch back to the REC track
- 13:21:55 [zkis]
- ... we should allow clear statements in the spec
- 13:22:13 [zkis]
- DP: what does it mean to ask the AC reps, what scenarios might happen?
- 13:22:23 [dezell]
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- 13:22:37 [zkis]
- MM: we are asking the members if they accept liabilities, since it is outside the W3C patent policy
- 13:22:37 [dezell]
- present+ David_Ezell
- 13:22:54 [zkis]
- ML: liabilities mean violations of the W3C patent policy?
- 13:22:56 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:22:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:23:16 [zkis]
- MM: technically yes, Notes are more complicated
- 13:23:20 [McCool]
- proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
- 13:23:40 [kaz]
- s/presnt+/present+/
- 13:24:01 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:24:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:24:04 [zkis]
- MM: if we go through the IPR exclusion process, it would add a lot of overhead
- 13:24:25 [zkis]
- ... but if the spec says it is using normative language, but it is not normative, that should be fine
- 13:24:29 [zkis]
- q?
- 13:24:30 [mlagally_]
- q+
- 13:24:42 [kaz]
- ack z
- 13:26:20 [zkis]
- ZK: Scripting uses conformance classes that are needed, so being able to use normative language should be possible, with the big switch making sure they are not actually normative
- 13:26:44 [zkis]
- KA: there can also be a normative Note, but then the WG should handle the context
- 13:27:14 [zkis]
- MM: will draft an email with KA and SK
- 13:27:25 [zkis]
- ... make it clear that this is only a language construct
- 13:27:35 [zkis]
- q?
- 13:27:38 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:28:24 [zkis]
- ML: I support clarity, email, review by AC reps
- 13:28:56 [kaz]
- s/ then the WG should handle the context/ in that case the WoT WG is responsible (not W3C as a whole) about the potential patent issues, so McCool and Sebastian wanted to talk with the group participants during this call./
- 13:28:57 [zkis]
- ... otherwise multiple companies might question this practice, and might become complicated
- 13:29:01 [McCool]
- proposal: strike committee to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
- 13:29:21 [zkis]
- s/... otherwise/ML: otherwise
- 13:29:51 [zkis]
- MM: if any AC rep objects, we need to discuss what to do
- 13:30:02 [zkis]
- MM: I suggest we discuss this in the next editors' call
- 13:30:09 [McCool]
- proposal: strike committee consisting of editors to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
- 13:30:24 [zkis]
- MM: any objections?
- 13:30:48 [zkis]
- ML: to discuss the email?
- 13:31:04 [zkis]
- MM: yes, and md file with content of email and process
- 13:31:24 [McCool]
- suggest we strike committee consisting of editors to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
- 13:31:43 [zkis]
- Topic: chair's survey
- 13:32:14 [zkis]
- scribenick: kaz
- 13:32:34 [kaz]
- mm: kaz has created another questionnaire about TPAC 2022 attendance
- 13:32:55 [kaz]
- ... his message sent to the wot Members list
- 13:33:09 [kaz]
- topic: WG Charter
- 13:33:32 [kaz]
- s/Charter/Charter extension/
- 13:33:35 [kaz]
- mm: horizontal review ongoing
- 13:33:55 [kaz]
- i|ho|-> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298 strategy issue 298 for horizontal review|
- 13:34:14 [kaz]
- ... got a comment about accessibility
- 13:34:21 [kaz]
- ... I'm OK with that
- 13:34:39 [McCool]
- proposal: adopt change suggested in https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298#issuecomment-1048148248 to our draft WG extension charter
- 13:35:18 [McCool]
- resolution: adopt change suggested in https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298#issuecomment-1048148248 to our draft WG extension charter
- 13:35:38 [kaz]
- i|topic: WG|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Feb/0009.html Kaz's message sent to the group list|
- 13:35:48 [kaz]
- topic: Publication
- 13:36:03 [kaz]
- mm: kaz is working on the pubrules checker
- 13:36:13 [kaz]
- ... have some issues to be resolved
- 13:36:24 [kaz]
- ml: think we should use the latest template
- 13:36:26 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:36:29 [kaz]
- ack ml
- 13:38:10 [kaz]
- kaz: ReSpec automatically generates the template, so we could simply specify "NOTE" as the type instead of "ED"
- 13:38:32 [kaz]
- ... but we still need to modify the document in addition to the issues caused by the type mismatch
- 13:38:37 [kaz]
- mm: ok
- 13:38:40 [kaz]
- ... what about TD?
- 13:38:50 [mlagally_]
- q+
- 13:38:55 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:39:13 [kaz]
- ... would clarify some issues during the TD call today
- 13:39:25 [kaz]
- ... Discovery to be finalized next week
- 13:39:32 [kaz]
- ack ml
- 13:39:39 [kaz]
- ml: discussion about event handling
- 13:39:51 [kaz]
- ... would ask keep the door open for that
- 13:40:03 [kaz]
- mm: depends on what "keep the door open" means here
- 13:40:33 [kaz]
- ... we still have one more round before CR transition
- 13:40:48 [kaz]
- ... spec freeze this time is mainly for the Plugrest/Testfest
- 13:40:52 [kaz]
- ml: ok
- 13:41:02 [kaz]
- topic: Wide review
- 13:41:06 [kaz]
- mm: some progress
- 13:41:15 [kaz]
- ... security tf finished first request
- 13:41:25 [kaz]
- ... one questionnaire should work for all the specs
- 13:41:47 [kaz]
- ... one answer for everything
- 13:42:05 [McCool]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1382
- 13:42:21 [kaz]
- mm: this is a branch in the wot-thing-description repo
- 13:42:35 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:43:23 [kaz]
- mm: please look at the PR 1382 above
- 13:43:55 [kaz]
- ... still have to write up tests
- 13:44:05 [kaz]
- ... to be discussed during the test call today
- 13:44:19 [kaz]
- ... could apply one explainer for everything
- 13:44:32 [kaz]
- sk: had look at the explainer
- 13:44:46 [kaz]
- ... probably need more practical explainer
- 13:44:51 [kaz]
- ... with practical examples
- 13:44:58 [kaz]
- ... should improve it
- 13:45:36 [kaz]
- s/https/-> https/
- 13:45:58 [kaz]
- s|pull/1382|pull/1382 wot-thing-description PR 1382 - Create Security and Privacy Questionnaire Answers for Ver 1.1 CR Process|
- 13:46:07 [kaz]
- mm: would assign that to Sebastian :)
- 13:46:27 [kaz]
- sk: need explainers for the other specs too
- 13:47:08 [kaz]
- mm: let's finish the text first for TD, then think about others after that
- 13:47:17 [kaz]
- q?
- 13:47:40 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:48:04 [kaz]
- kaz: so we'll use this one for TD as a template for the other specs?
- 13:48:22 [kaz]
- mm: rather one explainer document with multiple sections for the other specs
- 13:48:33 [kaz]
- kaz: ok
- 13:48:43 [kaz]
- ... that's also fine
- 13:49:11 [kaz]
- q?
- 13:49:15 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:49:39 [kaz]
- ... in that case, we should talk about this as well during the next Editors call
- 13:49:44 [kaz]
- mm: think so
- 13:49:46 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:50:17 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1396 wot-thing-description PR 1396 - Complete TAG/Security Wide Review Request
- 13:50:45 [kaz]
- s/use this one/this (Explainer and Review Request)/
- 13:51:12 [kaz]
- topic: WoT CG
- 13:51:41 [kaz]
- kaz: the Call for new Chairs was made last Wednesday, and lasts for 2 weeks
- 13:51:52 [kaz]
- ... so will see the results next Wednesday
- 13:51:54 [kaz]
- mm: ok
- 13:51:58 [kaz]
- topic: Testing
- 13:52:08 [kaz]
- mm: need to organize the tests
- 13:52:13 [kaz]
- topic: Liaisons
- 13:52:23 [kaz]
- subtopic: ITU-T SG20
- 13:52:32 [kaz]
- mm: will contact them
- 13:52:36 [kaz]
- subtopic: ECHONET
- 13:52:40 [kaz]
- mm: continue discussion
- 13:52:47 [kaz]
- subtopic: OPC-UA
- 13:52:54 [kaz]
- sk: invited to their meeting 2 weeks ago
- 13:53:19 [kaz]
- ... they're open and happy to work on collaboration
- 13:53:30 [kaz]
- ... additional round discussion to be done
- 13:53:43 [kaz]
- ... happy to work on official OPC-UA binding
- 13:53:57 [kaz]
- ... mirror to the WoT Binding document on the OPC-UA side
- 13:54:21 [kaz]
- mm: coordinated activity?
- 13:54:25 [kaz]
- sk: right
- 13:54:29 [kaz]
- q?
- 13:54:30 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:54:53 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:55:13 [kaz]
- kaz: need to clarify the expected deliverable for that "collaboration"
- 13:55:17 [kaz]
- ... let's continue the discussion
- 13:55:24 [kaz]
- subtopic: T2TRG
- 13:55:27 [McCool]
- mm: propose using this summary pres, updated, for T2TRG https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2022-02-WoT-ITU-T-McCool.pdf
- 13:55:40 [kaz]
- i/propose/scribenick: McCool/
- 13:55:51 [kaz]
- scribenick: kaz
- 13:56:03 [kaz]
- mm: send me an email if you have any idea
- 13:56:21 [kaz]
- ... continue the discussion during the Marketing call probably
- 13:56:52 [kaz]
- ... FYI, discussion on IETF Anima for Security too
- 13:57:03 [kaz]
- subtopic: ASHRAE
- 13:57:27 [kaz]
- mjk: will have discussion during the TD call today
- 13:57:32 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:57:38 [kaz]
- mm: own protocol?
- 13:58:04 [kaz]
- mjk: an organization including BACnet committee
- 13:58:46 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:58:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:58:52 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:59:07 [kaz]
- topic: TF reports
- 13:59:16 [kaz]
- mm: any major reports?
- 13:59:23 [Ege]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/246
- 13:59:42 [Ege]
- q+
- 13:59:44 [kaz]
- ... terminology to be clarified for Discovery
- 14:00:23 [kaz]
- ... trying to finalize by Feb-28
- 14:00:51 [kaz]
- ek: we have a table of the meeting time
- 14:00:53 [sebastian]
- sebastian has joined #wot
- 14:00:56 [kaz]
- ... both on the wiki and the web page
- 14:01:02 [ryuichi]
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- 14:01:03 [kaz]
- ack e
- 14:01:13 [kaz]
- ... would go only for the web page
- 14:01:21 [kaz]
- @@@ issue here
- 14:02:09 [McCool]
- proposal: delete calendar table from main wiki page, use one on WoT web site instead
- 14:02:26 [McCool]
- resolution: delete calendar table from main wiki page, use one on WoT web site instead
- 14:02:57 [kaz]
- -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_Page Main wiki page
- 14:03:15 [kaz]
- kaz: note that we need to update the links from each TF wiki to the main wiki page
- 14:03:26 [kaz]
- mm: ok
- 14:03:32 [kaz]
- [adjourned]
- 14:03:34 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:03:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
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- q?
- 14:18:47 [mlagally__]
- present?
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