13:00:11 RRSAgent has joined #wot 13:00:11 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-irc 13:00:13 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#23_February_2022 13:00:19 meeting: WoT-IG/WG 13:00:26 chair: McCool/Sebastian 13:00:35 presnt+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool 13:01:55 ktoumura has joined #wot 13:02:00 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally 13:02:48 zkis has joined #wot 13:02:58 topic: minutes 13:03:00 https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html 13:05:30 dape has joined #wot 13:05:30 s/https/-> https/ 13:05:35 s/html/html Feb-16/ 13:05:55 present+ Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Zoltan_Kis 13:06:08 rrsagent, make log public 13:06:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:06:27 present+ Zoltan_Kis 13:06:33 scribenick:zkis 13:06:57 Topic: past minutes 13:07:49 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima, Sebastian_Kaebisch 13:08:11 MM: small typo s/late/wait 13:08:30 no objections 13:08:40 MM: minutes can be published 13:08:50 Topic: quick updates 13:09:20 ML: architecture meeting canceled this week 13:09:39 MM: no editors' call this week 13:10:13 MM: consistency check between the documents still ongoing 13:10:21 q+ 13:10:33 ML: indeed, no recent discussions about this 13:10:53 ML: terminology has been discussed 13:10:57 q? 13:11:06 ML: editors of Scripting and Discovery should take a look 13:11:35 MM: we will discuss in the editors' meeting with the task forces 13:11:51 DP: from Scripting parts, small changes needed, already agreed 13:11:59 ack dape 13:12:07 ML: PRs would be preferable, otherwise issues 13:12:11 MM: also probably a PR from discovery 13:12:36 Subtopic: WoT Japanese CG 13:13:21 TM: some discussions, including web API 13:13:39 Subtopic: conformance statements 13:13:42 q+ 13:13:51 MM: we have a resolution to proceed with this 13:14:06 MM: KA, MM and SK discussed the process 13:14:30 s/some discussions, including web API/planning to hold an open event about ECHONET liaison. the agenda is being finalized and should include the relationship between WoT and ECHONET Lite Web API based on concrete use cases./ 13:14:37 q+ 13:14:39 cris has joined #wot 13:14:47 ... we can have normative statements in Notes, but it's the WG terms not the W3C terms, therefore compliance will be handled by the WG 13:14:52 ack dape 13:15:26 rrsagent, make log public 13:15:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:15:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:15:39 MM: today we can have a resolution and notify the AC reps from the WG 13:15:56 mlagally_ has joined #wot 13:16:06 q+ 13:16:07 q+ 13:16:12 ack k 13:16:23 KA: this is not required by the W3C process, but the Notes are not covered by the IPR statement, so indeed the AC reps should be consulted 13:16:32 q? 13:16:37 proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objects 13:16:45 s/IPR statement/IPR policy 13:17:18 proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objects; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html 13:17:27 ML: not clear what is going on and why are we doing something like a REC spec but which is not a REC spec 13:17:45 q+ 13:17:51 ack mla 13:18:13 KA: the spec could say it is not covered by the W3C patent policy 13:18:35 MM: OK, we should quote the exact text and let people have feedback on it 13:19:02 KA: the text is the same as for WoT Use Cases, but the content of Scripting is different 13:19:12 MM: if any AC rep objects, we need to re-discuss it 13:19:18 [[ 13:19:18 This document was published by the Web of Things Interest Group as a Group Note using the Note track. 13:19:18 Group Notes are not endorsed by W3C nor its Members. 13:19:18 The W3C Patent Policy does not carry any licensing requirements or commitments on this document. 13:19:19 This document is governed by the 2 November 2021 W3C Process Document. 13:19:19 ]] 13:19:20 ... or make it on the REC track 13:19:30 s/... or/MM: or/ 13:20:01 ML: I would support the REC track, since it's more clear 13:20:23 MM: there are also problems with that - we need a non-normative draft that may use normative languages 13:20:25 q+ 13:20:45 ML: what is the publication schedule, is it aligned with the other specs? 13:20:56 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Michael_Koster 13:21:01 DP: usually a bit lagging behind the other specs (TD, Discovery etc) 13:21:02 ack d 13:21:17 DP: the Note track also exists for CGs, so it is not new 13:21:36 ... the Note track doesn't mean we cannot switch back to the REC track 13:21:55 ... we should allow clear statements in the spec 13:22:13 DP: what does it mean to ask the AC reps, what scenarios might happen? 13:22:23 dezell has joined #wot 13:22:37 MM: we are asking the members if they accept liabilities, since it is outside the W3C patent policy 13:22:37 present+ David_Ezell 13:22:54 ML: liabilities mean violations of the W3C patent policy? 13:22:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:22:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:23:16 MM: technically yes, Notes are more complicated 13:23:20 proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html 13:23:40 s/presnt+/present+/ 13:24:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:24:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:24:04 MM: if we go through the IPR exclusion process, it would add a lot of overhead 13:24:25 ... but if the spec says it is using normative language, but it is not normative, that should be fine 13:24:29 q? 13:24:30 q+ 13:24:42 ack z 13:26:20 ZK: Scripting uses conformance classes that are needed, so being able to use normative language should be possible, with the big switch making sure they are not actually normative 13:26:44 KA: there can also be a normative Note, but then the WG should handle the context 13:27:14 MM: will draft an email with KA and SK 13:27:25 ... make it clear that this is only a language construct 13:27:35 q? 13:27:38 ack k 13:28:24 ML: I support clarity, email, review by AC reps 13:28:56 s/ then the WG should handle the context/ in that case the WoT WG is responsible (not W3C as a whole) about the potential patent issues, so McCool and Sebastian wanted to talk with the group participants during this call./ 13:28:57 ... otherwise multiple companies might question this practice, and might become complicated 13:29:01 proposal: strike committee to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html 13:29:21 s/... otherwise/ML: otherwise 13:29:51 MM: if any AC rep objects, we need to discuss what to do 13:30:02 MM: I suggest we discuss this in the next editors' call 13:30:09 proposal: strike committee consisting of editors to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html 13:30:24 MM: any objections? 13:30:48 ML: to discuss the email? 13:31:04 MM: yes, and md file with content of email and process 13:31:24 suggest we strike committee consisting of editors to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html 13:31:43 Topic: chair's survey 13:32:14 scribenick: kaz 13:32:34 mm: kaz has created another questionnaire about TPAC 2022 attendance 13:32:55 ... his message sent to the wot Members list 13:33:09 topic: WG Charter 13:33:32 s/Charter/Charter extension/ 13:33:35 mm: horizontal review ongoing 13:33:55 i|ho|-> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298 strategy issue 298 for horizontal review| 13:34:14 ... got a comment about accessibility 13:34:21 ... I'm OK with that 13:34:39 proposal: adopt change suggested in https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298#issuecomment-1048148248 to our draft WG extension charter 13:35:18 resolution: adopt change suggested in https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298#issuecomment-1048148248 to our draft WG extension charter 13:35:38 i|topic: WG|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Feb/0009.html Kaz's message sent to the group list| 13:35:48 topic: Publication 13:36:03 mm: kaz is working on the pubrules checker 13:36:13 ... have some issues to be resolved 13:36:24 ml: think we should use the latest template 13:36:26 q+ 13:36:29 ack ml 13:38:10 kaz: ReSpec automatically generates the template, so we could simply specify "NOTE" as the type instead of "ED" 13:38:32 ... but we still need to modify the document in addition to the issues caused by the type mismatch 13:38:37 mm: ok 13:38:40 ... what about TD? 13:38:50 q+ 13:38:55 ack k 13:39:13 ... would clarify some issues during the TD call today 13:39:25 ... Discovery to be finalized next week 13:39:32 ack ml 13:39:39 ml: discussion about event handling 13:39:51 ... would ask keep the door open for that 13:40:03 mm: depends on what "keep the door open" means here 13:40:33 ... we still have one more round before CR transition 13:40:48 ... spec freeze this time is mainly for the Plugrest/Testfest 13:40:52 ml: ok 13:41:02 topic: Wide review 13:41:06 mm: some progress 13:41:15 ... security tf finished first request 13:41:25 ... one questionnaire should work for all the specs 13:41:47 ... one answer for everything 13:42:05 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1382 13:42:21 mm: this is a branch in the wot-thing-description repo 13:42:35 q+ 13:43:23 mm: please look at the PR 1382 above 13:43:55 ... still have to write up tests 13:44:05 ... to be discussed during the test call today 13:44:19 ... could apply one explainer for everything 13:44:32 sk: had look at the explainer 13:44:46 ... probably need more practical explainer 13:44:51 ... with practical examples 13:44:58 ... should improve it 13:45:36 s/https/-> https/ 13:45:58 s|pull/1382|pull/1382 wot-thing-description PR 1382 - Create Security and Privacy Questionnaire Answers for Ver 1.1 CR Process| 13:46:07 mm: would assign that to Sebastian :) 13:46:27 sk: need explainers for the other specs too 13:47:08 mm: let's finish the text first for TD, then think about others after that 13:47:17 q? 13:47:40 ack k 13:48:04 kaz: so we'll use this one for TD as a template for the other specs? 13:48:22 mm: rather one explainer document with multiple sections for the other specs 13:48:33 kaz: ok 13:48:43 ... that's also fine 13:49:11 q? 13:49:15 q+ 13:49:39 ... in that case, we should talk about this as well during the next Editors call 13:49:44 mm: think so 13:49:46 ack k 13:50:17 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1396 wot-thing-description PR 1396 - Complete TAG/Security Wide Review Request 13:50:45 s/use this one/this (Explainer and Review Request)/ 13:51:12 topic: WoT CG 13:51:41 kaz: the Call for new Chairs was made last Wednesday, and lasts for 2 weeks 13:51:52 ... so will see the results next Wednesday 13:51:54 mm: ok 13:51:58 topic: Testing 13:52:08 mm: need to organize the tests 13:52:13 topic: Liaisons 13:52:23 subtopic: ITU-T SG20 13:52:32 mm: will contact them 13:52:36 subtopic: ECHONET 13:52:40 mm: continue discussion 13:52:47 subtopic: OPC-UA 13:52:54 sk: invited to their meeting 2 weeks ago 13:53:19 ... they're open and happy to work on collaboration 13:53:30 ... additional round discussion to be done 13:53:43 ... happy to work on official OPC-UA binding 13:53:57 ... mirror to the WoT Binding document on the OPC-UA side 13:54:21 mm: coordinated activity? 13:54:25 sk: right 13:54:29 q? 13:54:30 q+ 13:54:53 ack k 13:55:13 kaz: need to clarify the expected deliverable for that "collaboration" 13:55:17 ... let's continue the discussion 13:55:24 subtopic: T2TRG 13:55:27 mm: propose using this summary pres, updated, for T2TRG https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2022-02-WoT-ITU-T-McCool.pdf 13:55:40 i/propose/scribenick: McCool/ 13:55:51 scribenick: kaz 13:56:03 mm: send me an email if you have any idea 13:56:21 ... continue the discussion during the Marketing call probably 13:56:52 ... FYI, discussion on IETF Anima for Security too 13:57:03 subtopic: ASHRAE 13:57:27 mjk: will have discussion during the TD call today 13:57:32 q+ 13:57:38 mm: own protocol? 13:58:04 mjk: an organization including BACnet committee 13:58:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:58:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:58:52 ack k 13:59:07 topic: TF reports 13:59:16 mm: any major reports? 13:59:23 https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/246 13:59:42 q+ 13:59:44 ... terminology to be clarified for Discovery 14:00:23 ... trying to finalize by Feb-28 14:00:51 ek: we have a table of the meeting time 14:00:53 sebastian has joined #wot 14:00:56 ... both on the wiki and the web page 14:01:02 ryuichi has joined #wot 14:01:03 ack e 14:01:13 ... would go only for the web page 14:01:21 @@@ issue here 14:02:09 proposal: delete calendar table from main wiki page, use one on WoT web site instead 14:02:26 resolution: delete calendar table from main wiki page, use one on WoT web site instead 14:02:57 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_Page Main wiki page 14:03:15 kaz: note that we need to update the links from each TF wiki to the main wiki page 14:03:26 mm: ok 14:03:32 [adjourned] 14:03:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:03:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:13:23 Mizushima has left #wot 14:18:36 mlagally__ has joined #wot 14:18:41 q? 14:18:47 present? 14:19:30 ktoumura has left #wot 15:04:47 dsr_ has joined #wot 16:38:35 Zakim has left #wot 17:04:51 bkardell_ has joined #wot 17:33:07 dsr_ has joined #wot 18:06:00 dsr_ has joined #wot 18:36:58 dsr_ has joined #wot 19:07:37 dsr_ has joined #wot 19:38:38 dsr_ has joined #wot 20:10:44 dsr_ has joined #wot 20:41:57 dsr_ has joined #wot 22:00:45 dsr_ has joined #wot 23:05:51 dsr_ has joined #wot