IRC log of wot on 2022-02-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:11 [RRSAgent]
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13:00:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-irc
13:00:13 [McCool]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#23_February_2022
13:00:19 [kaz]
meeting: WoT-IG/WG
13:00:26 [kaz]
chair: McCool/Sebastian
13:00:35 [kaz]
presnt+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool
13:01:55 [ktoumura]
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13:02:00 [kaz]
present+ Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally
13:02:48 [zkis]
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13:02:58 [McCool]
topic: minutes
13:03:00 [McCool]
https://www.w3.org/2022/02/16-wot-minutes.html
13:05:30 [dape]
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13:05:30 [kaz]
s/https/-> https/
13:05:35 [kaz]
s/html/html Feb-16/
13:05:55 [kaz]
present+ Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Zoltan_Kis
13:06:08 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:06:11 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:06:27 [zkis]
present+ Zoltan_Kis
13:06:33 [zkis]
scribenick:zkis
13:06:57 [zkis]
Topic: past minutes
13:07:49 [kaz]
present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima, Sebastian_Kaebisch
13:08:11 [zkis]
MM: small typo s/late/wait
13:08:30 [zkis]
no objections
13:08:40 [zkis]
MM: minutes can be published
13:08:50 [zkis]
Topic: quick updates
13:09:20 [zkis]
ML: architecture meeting canceled this week
13:09:39 [zkis]
MM: no editors' call this week
13:10:13 [zkis]
MM: consistency check between the documents still ongoing
13:10:21 [dape]
q+
13:10:33 [zkis]
ML: indeed, no recent discussions about this
13:10:53 [zkis]
ML: terminology has been discussed
13:10:57 [kaz]
q?
13:11:06 [zkis]
ML: editors of Scripting and Discovery should take a look
13:11:35 [zkis]
MM: we will discuss in the editors' meeting with the task forces
13:11:51 [zkis]
DP: from Scripting parts, small changes needed, already agreed
13:11:59 [dape]
ack dape
13:12:07 [zkis]
ML: PRs would be preferable, otherwise issues
13:12:11 [McCool]
MM: also probably a PR from discovery
13:12:36 [zkis]
Subtopic: WoT Japanese CG
13:13:21 [zkis]
TM: some discussions, including web API
13:13:39 [zkis]
Subtopic: conformance statements
13:13:42 [dape]
q+
13:13:51 [zkis]
MM: we have a resolution to proceed with this
13:14:06 [zkis]
MM: KA, MM and SK discussed the process
13:14:30 [kaz]
s/some discussions, including web API/planning to hold an open event about ECHONET liaison. the agenda is being finalized and should include the relationship between WoT and ECHONET Lite Web API based on concrete use cases./
13:14:37 [kaz]
q+
13:14:39 [cris]
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13:14:47 [zkis]
... we can have normative statements in Notes, but it's the WG terms not the W3C terms, therefore compliance will be handled by the WG
13:14:52 [dape]
ack dape
13:15:26 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:15:32 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:15:39 [zkis]
MM: today we can have a resolution and notify the AC reps from the WG
13:15:56 [mlagally_]
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13:16:06 [mlagally_]
q+
13:16:07 [dape]
q+
13:16:12 [kaz]
ack k
13:16:23 [zkis]
KA: this is not required by the W3C process, but the Notes are not covered by the IPR statement, so indeed the AC reps should be consulted
13:16:32 [kaz]
q?
13:16:37 [McCool]
proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objects
13:16:45 [zkis]
s/IPR statement/IPR policy
13:17:18 [McCool]
proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objects; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
13:17:27 [zkis]
ML: not clear what is going on and why are we doing something like a REC spec but which is not a REC spec
13:17:45 [zkis]
q+
13:17:51 [zkis]
ack mla
13:18:13 [zkis]
KA: the spec could say it is not covered by the W3C patent policy
13:18:35 [zkis]
MM: OK, we should quote the exact text and let people have feedback on it
13:19:02 [zkis]
KA: the text is the same as for WoT Use Cases, but the content of Scripting is different
13:19:12 [zkis]
MM: if any AC rep objects, we need to re-discuss it
13:19:18 [kaz]
[[
13:19:18 [kaz]
This document was published by the Web of Things Interest Group as a Group Note using the Note track.
13:19:18 [kaz]
Group Notes are not endorsed by W3C nor its Members.
13:19:18 [kaz]
The W3C Patent Policy does not carry any licensing requirements or commitments on this document.
13:19:19 [kaz]
This document is governed by the 2 November 2021 W3C Process Document.
13:19:19 [kaz]
]]
13:19:20 [zkis]
... or make it on the REC track
13:19:30 [kaz]
s/... or/MM: or/
13:20:01 [zkis]
ML: I would support the REC track, since it's more clear
13:20:23 [zkis]
MM: there are also problems with that - we need a non-normative draft that may use normative languages
13:20:25 [kaz]
q+
13:20:45 [zkis]
ML: what is the publication schedule, is it aligned with the other specs?
13:20:56 [kaz]
present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Michael_Koster
13:21:01 [zkis]
DP: usually a bit lagging behind the other specs (TD, Discovery etc)
13:21:02 [kaz]
ack d
13:21:17 [zkis]
DP: the Note track also exists for CGs, so it is not new
13:21:36 [zkis]
... the Note track doesn't mean we cannot switch back to the REC track
13:21:55 [zkis]
... we should allow clear statements in the spec
13:22:13 [zkis]
DP: what does it mean to ask the AC reps, what scenarios might happen?
13:22:23 [dezell]
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13:22:37 [zkis]
MM: we are asking the members if they accept liabilities, since it is outside the W3C patent policy
13:22:37 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
13:22:54 [zkis]
ML: liabilities mean violations of the W3C patent policy?
13:22:56 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:22:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:23:16 [zkis]
MM: technically yes, Notes are more complicated
13:23:20 [McCool]
proposal: proceed with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, after notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
13:23:40 [kaz]
s/presnt+/present+/
13:24:01 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:24:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:24:04 [zkis]
MM: if we go through the IPR exclusion process, it would add a lot of overhead
13:24:25 [zkis]
... but if the spec says it is using normative language, but it is not normative, that should be fine
13:24:29 [zkis]
q?
13:24:30 [mlagally_]
q+
13:24:42 [kaz]
ack z
13:26:20 [zkis]
ZK: Scripting uses conformance classes that are needed, so being able to use normative language should be possible, with the big switch making sure they are not actually normative
13:26:44 [zkis]
KA: there can also be a normative Note, but then the WG should handle the context
13:27:14 [zkis]
MM: will draft an email with KA and SK
13:27:25 [zkis]
... make it clear that this is only a language construct
13:27:35 [zkis]
q?
13:27:38 [kaz]
ack k
13:28:24 [zkis]
ML: I support clarity, email, review by AC reps
13:28:56 [kaz]
s/ then the WG should handle the context/ in that case the WoT WG is responsible (not W3C as a whole) about the potential patent issues, so McCool and Sebastian wanted to talk with the group participants during this call./
13:28:57 [zkis]
... otherwise multiple companies might question this practice, and might become complicated
13:29:01 [McCool]
proposal: strike committee to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
13:29:21 [zkis]
s/... otherwise/ML: otherwise
13:29:51 [zkis]
MM: if any AC rep objects, we need to discuss what to do
13:30:02 [zkis]
MM: I suggest we discuss this in the next editors' call
13:30:09 [McCool]
proposal: strike committee consisting of editors to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
13:30:24 [zkis]
MM: any objections?
13:30:48 [zkis]
ML: to discuss the email?
13:31:04 [zkis]
MM: yes, and md file with content of email and process
13:31:24 [McCool]
suggest we strike committee consisting of editors to develop an email with precise details on implications of proceeding with adopting conformance statements in the Scripting API Notes, and define a process including notifying the AC reps of the WG and asking if there are any objections; see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Jan/0022.html
13:31:43 [zkis]
Topic: chair's survey
13:32:14 [zkis]
scribenick: kaz
13:32:34 [kaz]
mm: kaz has created another questionnaire about TPAC 2022 attendance
13:32:55 [kaz]
... his message sent to the wot Members list
13:33:09 [kaz]
topic: WG Charter
13:33:32 [kaz]
s/Charter/Charter extension/
13:33:35 [kaz]
mm: horizontal review ongoing
13:33:55 [kaz]
i|ho|-> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298 strategy issue 298 for horizontal review|
13:34:14 [kaz]
... got a comment about accessibility
13:34:21 [kaz]
... I'm OK with that
13:34:39 [McCool]
proposal: adopt change suggested in https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298#issuecomment-1048148248 to our draft WG extension charter
13:35:18 [McCool]
resolution: adopt change suggested in https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/298#issuecomment-1048148248 to our draft WG extension charter
13:35:38 [kaz]
i|topic: WG|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2022Feb/0009.html Kaz's message sent to the group list|
13:35:48 [kaz]
topic: Publication
13:36:03 [kaz]
mm: kaz is working on the pubrules checker
13:36:13 [kaz]
... have some issues to be resolved
13:36:24 [kaz]
ml: think we should use the latest template
13:36:26 [kaz]
q+
13:36:29 [kaz]
ack ml
13:38:10 [kaz]
kaz: ReSpec automatically generates the template, so we could simply specify "NOTE" as the type instead of "ED"
13:38:32 [kaz]
... but we still need to modify the document in addition to the issues caused by the type mismatch
13:38:37 [kaz]
mm: ok
13:38:40 [kaz]
... what about TD?
13:38:50 [mlagally_]
q+
13:38:55 [kaz]
ack k
13:39:13 [kaz]
... would clarify some issues during the TD call today
13:39:25 [kaz]
... Discovery to be finalized next week
13:39:32 [kaz]
ack ml
13:39:39 [kaz]
ml: discussion about event handling
13:39:51 [kaz]
... would ask keep the door open for that
13:40:03 [kaz]
mm: depends on what "keep the door open" means here
13:40:33 [kaz]
... we still have one more round before CR transition
13:40:48 [kaz]
... spec freeze this time is mainly for the Plugrest/Testfest
13:40:52 [kaz]
ml: ok
13:41:02 [kaz]
topic: Wide review
13:41:06 [kaz]
mm: some progress
13:41:15 [kaz]
... security tf finished first request
13:41:25 [kaz]
... one questionnaire should work for all the specs
13:41:47 [kaz]
... one answer for everything
13:42:05 [McCool]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1382
13:42:21 [kaz]
mm: this is a branch in the wot-thing-description repo
13:42:35 [kaz]
q+
13:43:23 [kaz]
mm: please look at the PR 1382 above
13:43:55 [kaz]
... still have to write up tests
13:44:05 [kaz]
... to be discussed during the test call today
13:44:19 [kaz]
... could apply one explainer for everything
13:44:32 [kaz]
sk: had look at the explainer
13:44:46 [kaz]
... probably need more practical explainer
13:44:51 [kaz]
... with practical examples
13:44:58 [kaz]
... should improve it
13:45:36 [kaz]
s/https/-> https/
13:45:58 [kaz]
s|pull/1382|pull/1382 wot-thing-description PR 1382 - Create Security and Privacy Questionnaire Answers for Ver 1.1 CR Process|
13:46:07 [kaz]
mm: would assign that to Sebastian :)
13:46:27 [kaz]
sk: need explainers for the other specs too
13:47:08 [kaz]
mm: let's finish the text first for TD, then think about others after that
13:47:17 [kaz]
q?
13:47:40 [kaz]
ack k
13:48:04 [kaz]
kaz: so we'll use this one for TD as a template for the other specs?
13:48:22 [kaz]
mm: rather one explainer document with multiple sections for the other specs
13:48:33 [kaz]
kaz: ok
13:48:43 [kaz]
... that's also fine
13:49:11 [kaz]
q?
13:49:15 [kaz]
q+
13:49:39 [kaz]
... in that case, we should talk about this as well during the next Editors call
13:49:44 [kaz]
mm: think so
13:49:46 [kaz]
ack k
13:50:17 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1396 wot-thing-description PR 1396 - Complete TAG/Security Wide Review Request
13:50:45 [kaz]
s/use this one/this (Explainer and Review Request)/
13:51:12 [kaz]
topic: WoT CG
13:51:41 [kaz]
kaz: the Call for new Chairs was made last Wednesday, and lasts for 2 weeks
13:51:52 [kaz]
... so will see the results next Wednesday
13:51:54 [kaz]
mm: ok
13:51:58 [kaz]
topic: Testing
13:52:08 [kaz]
mm: need to organize the tests
13:52:13 [kaz]
topic: Liaisons
13:52:23 [kaz]
subtopic: ITU-T SG20
13:52:32 [kaz]
mm: will contact them
13:52:36 [kaz]
subtopic: ECHONET
13:52:40 [kaz]
mm: continue discussion
13:52:47 [kaz]
subtopic: OPC-UA
13:52:54 [kaz]
sk: invited to their meeting 2 weeks ago
13:53:19 [kaz]
... they're open and happy to work on collaboration
13:53:30 [kaz]
... additional round discussion to be done
13:53:43 [kaz]
... happy to work on official OPC-UA binding
13:53:57 [kaz]
... mirror to the WoT Binding document on the OPC-UA side
13:54:21 [kaz]
mm: coordinated activity?
13:54:25 [kaz]
sk: right
13:54:29 [kaz]
q?
13:54:30 [kaz]
q+
13:54:53 [kaz]
ack k
13:55:13 [kaz]
kaz: need to clarify the expected deliverable for that "collaboration"
13:55:17 [kaz]
... let's continue the discussion
13:55:24 [kaz]
subtopic: T2TRG
13:55:27 [McCool]
mm: propose using this summary pres, updated, for T2TRG https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2022-02-WoT-ITU-T-McCool.pdf
13:55:40 [kaz]
i/propose/scribenick: McCool/
13:55:51 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
13:56:03 [kaz]
mm: send me an email if you have any idea
13:56:21 [kaz]
... continue the discussion during the Marketing call probably
13:56:52 [kaz]
... FYI, discussion on IETF Anima for Security too
13:57:03 [kaz]
subtopic: ASHRAE
13:57:27 [kaz]
mjk: will have discussion during the TD call today
13:57:32 [kaz]
q+
13:57:38 [kaz]
mm: own protocol?
13:58:04 [kaz]
mjk: an organization including BACnet committee
13:58:46 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:58:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:58:52 [kaz]
ack k
13:59:07 [kaz]
topic: TF reports
13:59:16 [kaz]
mm: any major reports?
13:59:23 [Ege]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/246
13:59:42 [Ege]
q+
13:59:44 [kaz]
... terminology to be clarified for Discovery
14:00:23 [kaz]
... trying to finalize by Feb-28
14:00:51 [kaz]
ek: we have a table of the meeting time
14:00:53 [sebastian]
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14:00:56 [kaz]
... both on the wiki and the web page
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14:01:03 [kaz]
ack e
14:01:13 [kaz]
... would go only for the web page
14:01:21 [kaz]
@@@ issue here
14:02:09 [McCool]
proposal: delete calendar table from main wiki page, use one on WoT web site instead
14:02:26 [McCool]
resolution: delete calendar table from main wiki page, use one on WoT web site instead
14:02:57 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_Page Main wiki page
14:03:15 [kaz]
kaz: note that we need to update the links from each TF wiki to the main wiki page
14:03:26 [kaz]
mm: ok
14:03:32 [kaz]
[adjourned]
14:03:34 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
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q?
14:18:47 [mlagally__]
present?
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