W3C

– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

17 February 2022

Attendees

Present
addison, Atsushi, Bert, David, Erik, Fuqiao, JcK, Richard
Regrets
-
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
addison, xfq

Meeting minutes

<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference

<addison> scribenick xfq

Agenda

addison: was it an improvement over last week's agenda?

Bert: I'll make sure agendabot recognizes your format

addison: maybe I shouldn't use a bullet list

Action Items

agendabot: does anybody have anything to add to the agenda?

JcK: can we have plain text @@ HTML?

addison: I only own the part between the word "Agenda" and "Joining Instructions"

<addison> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open

r12a: you can have spacing between "BE PREPARED", "REMINDER", etc.

<JcK> That was not a request for plain text -- I'm going to read it that way regardless -- just for understanding of the implications to that format.

addison: 1094 is dependant on the explainer
… 1103 is also dependant on the explainer

trackbot, close ACTION-1118

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1118.

trackbot, close ACTION-1119

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1119.

Info Share

trackbot, close ACTION-1117

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-1117.

trackbot, open ACTION-1118

<trackbot> Sorry, xfq, I don't understand 'trackbot, open ACTION-1118'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

<addison> reopen 1118

https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4986#issuecomment-1024344940

xfq: came up in my vacation
… html folks made proposal on autocomplete
… agenda+ in this or future meeting?

addison: if memory serves they had some random stuff
… address format notoriously complicated

ACTION: addison: remind group to follow up on html#4986

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1120 - Remind group to follow up on html#4986 [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-02-24].

r12a: Do you think there is any problem, xfq?

xfq: i think we discussed this before

Radar

xfq: I would like to check with you all if there is a problem. I personally didn't find any problems.

r12a: i'll start editing the editorial guidelines
… I'm going to start (again) to create a new set of -2022 files
… that applies to new articles
… we should be able to fit it to articles we update as well

addison: thank you

https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-floating-times.en

addison: a coworker working on Temporal saw one of our floating times articles and found it useful
… and linked to it
… I should really update the working with time zones note
… because there are changes in the world since I wrote it a lot of years ago

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

addison: WoT TD, we have an agenda item for it
… SPC, we have a couple of pending issues we can review today

In-person for TPAC?

addison: there's a questionnaire for TPAC
… in September in Vancouver

David: my feeling is hybrid is the best option

r12a: for me it's a bit early to know what to do
… the flight for me is like 12 hours long

David: people in some countries may not even be allowed into Canada in direct flights

addison: I don't know what's gonna happen
… I will reserve some space

Bert: if it's possible I'd like to go there in person

RTL named group support in URLPattern

https://github.com/WICG/urlpattern/issues/43

addison: when they filed this request there was no spec
… in the interim year there's a spec
… I don't think we have reviewed this
… it's in a CG

addison: effectively they're working with URLs
… basically regular expressions
… syntax for named groups
… in a regular expression you can assign a name to an expression
… as a way of querying with the content
… rather than replicating the expression

David: rather than "it's the third collection" you can give it a name

addison: a full regular expression syntax for working with URLs
… e.g., "give me the fragment"
… it's possible to screw things up
… in a text editor because of bidi effects

r12a: logically speaking it's the same as in English

addison: it's "code point biased"

r12a: not because of it won't work
… just because you won't be able to read it

addison: usability problem
… we should probably review this thing before too long

ACTION: addison: add urlpattern to review (non-urgent)

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1121 - Add urlpattern to review (non-urgent) [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-02-24].

JcK: not everybody knows what TC 39 is

WOT Thing Description review

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending+label%3As%3Awot-thing-description

addison: i've done the review for WoT TD
… have some pending issues

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1465

r12a: they say if a language can be written in a few scripts
… what happens when there's no script subtag
… who's having the MUSTard?
… who would suppy that subtag?

addison: whoever supply the WoT TD
… @@
… you can have a list of languages you know in a language map

r12a: how would they know Azeri can be written in more than one script?

addison: presumably if they are localizing their device into these languages they would know
… but we cannot guarantee
… my first comment here is that we prefer not to use heuristic
… we prefer to use metadata
… and I could make a second comment, says your heuristic is incomplete
… they didn't pick up some of the things we did with JSON-LD i18n namespace and so on

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1467

addison: and you should be aware that elsewhere they say there's no metadata, and they cite string-meta

https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#script_subtag

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/articles/lang-bidi-use-cases/

r12a: we actually do recommend heuristic, but only in some cases

<r12a> https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#bp_use_heuristics_1

r12a: ^ this is what we're recommending in string-meta
… in the top of the file you can say the whole file is LTR
… but it may not be available

r12a: each string should be able to be accompanied by metadata, but we don't say that you have to supply metadata

addison: it's about capability

https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/#bp_inferring_from_language

addison: ^ this somewhat prevents that

r12a: this says "don't do these guys are doing, unless it's a last resort"
… so the question is, what is the last resort?

addison: I have a bunch of things that are not direction related

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1466

addison: like something replaces Unicode normalization
… #1466 should be easier
… they referred to "well-formed" language tags, but they don't bother to define "well-formed"

<atsushi_> +1

addison: we encourage specs require well-formedness and encourage valid

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1468

addison: ^ this is about human-readable metadata
… there's no way to ascertain languages or locales that are available

r12a: isn't that normal?

addison: @@
… a map can be flattened, you don't need to send fr-FR, fr-BE, fr-CA, fr-CH, and you can only send fr

Bert: i wonder what http say about language priority

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1469

addison: I'll work on this before the next meeting
… Accept-Language is just an example
… I don't know how else you would negotiate language with a lamp

Bert: I think I agree with you comment

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1470

<atsushi_> +1 strongly

addison: somewhat meta thing, but it's really common for developers to write English as enum value
… write in uppercase, camel case, snake case, or one of the programmer cases

xfq: +1

JcK: it's the right thing to do

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1471

addison: it's probably the authors know better, it's just editorial

addison: we famously have RFC3987 to deal with @@
… whatwg has URL

r12a: looks good to me

AOB?

close action-1114

<trackbot> Closed action-1114.

close action-1113

<trackbot> Closed action-1113.

close action-1104

<trackbot> Closed action-1104.

close action-1116

<trackbot> Closed action-1116.

Summary of action items

  1. addison: remind group to follow up on html#4986
  2. addison: add urlpattern to review (non-urgent)
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

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Maybe present: agendabot, r12a, xfq