14:29:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwe
14:29:24 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/02/15-pwe-irc
14:29:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:29:27 <Zakim> Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG
14:29:38 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2022Feb/0000.html
14:30:28 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/01/18-pwe-minutes.html previous 18 January
15:00:04 <Ralph> present: Tzviya, Léonie, Ralph
15:01:50 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pwe
15:01:53 <Ralph> present+ WendyReid, Sheila, Jemma
15:02:20 <sheila> sheila has joined #pwe
15:02:51 <Ralph> present+ Barbara
15:03:20 <Ralph> scribe+
15:03:36 <tink> present+ Léonie (tink)
15:03:57 <Ralph> chair: Tzviya
15:04:25 <Ralph> topic: Ombuds update
15:04:44 <Ralph> Sheila: Tzviya and I talked last week and aligned on next steps
15:05:13 <Ralph> ... one thing we need is clarity on the budget, both for training and stipends for those who serve in the ombuds role
15:05:42 <Ralph> ... I estimate ~ $12k training budget and ~ $14k for ombuds stipend
15:05:52 <Ralph> ... 4 hours/training, 2 trainings/year
15:06:02 <Ralph> ... ~ $1500/hour
15:06:09 <Jem> Jem has joined #pwe
15:06:20 <Jem> present+
15:06:25 <Jem> agenda?
15:06:30 <Ralph> ... I estimate 70 hours/year of work for ombuds
15:06:42 <cwilso> present+
15:06:47 <Ralph> ... including training, meeting with other ombuds
15:06:55 <Jem> present+ JemmaKu
15:06:59 <Ralph> ... $3500 / ombuds
15:07:05 <Ralph> present+ Hober
15:07:09 <BarbaraH> BarbaraH has joined #pwe
15:07:14 <Ralph> present- Hober
15:07:27 <Ralph> ... how does this feel to you?
15:08:19 <Ralph> Ralph: that # hours is plausible across 4 Ombuds
15:08:50 <Ralph> Tzviya: next steps, bring this budget to W3M
15:10:20 <Ralph> ... we should present the case as non-optional
15:10:24 <Ralph> ... this is part of a code of conduct
15:10:41 <Ralph> ... people have said that it's great that we have a CoC, but we need enforcement
15:10:44 <cwilso> +1
15:10:50 <Ralph> <ralph> +1
15:11:06 <Ralph> ... I understand that budgets are tight
15:11:34 <Ralph> Sheila: would it be helpful if I put together a pitch, including options for funding and why we think this is essential?
15:11:40 <Ralph> <ralph> +1
15:11:44 <Ralph> Tzviya: absolutely
15:11:46 <tzviya> q?
15:12:11 <Ralph> topic: Dispute Resolution draft
15:12:33 <Ralph> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2022Feb/att-0000/DRAFT_for_W3C_dispute_resolution__3_.docx DRAFT for W3C dispute resolution (3)
15:12:42 <Ralph> Liz: I softened the language about "will"
15:12:53 <Ralph> ... added some language about feeling safe
15:13:06 <Ralph> ... added some items about suspension / removal
15:13:14 <Ralph> ... added some language about confidentiality
15:13:21 <Ralph> ... e.g. if someone is banned, people have to know that
15:13:24 <cwilso> q+
15:13:46 <Ralph> ... where it's important for the functioning of W3C, people need to know
15:13:48 <BarbaraH> +q
15:13:50 <tzviya> ack cw
15:14:01 <Ralph> Chris: looks really good
15:14:11 <Ralph> ... my only question is "3 months of the incident taking place"
15:14:19 <wseltzer> wseltzer has joined #pwe
15:14:33 <Ralph> ... I understand why there is no statute of limitations
15:14:46 <Ralph> ... my mental model is "the sooner the better" in trying to address things
15:14:57 <BarbaraH> +1
15:15:03 <Ralph> ... I worry that people will take "3 months" as an opportunity to delay
15:15:15 <Ralph> Liz: clock starts at the moment a complaint is made
15:15:27 <Ralph> ... we need to pick a number; I'm not particularly wedded to 3
15:15:28 <tzviya> q+ to make a suggestion about 3 months
15:15:43 <Ralph> ... we need to start early; if things are left languishing they'll never get resolved
15:15:52 <Ralph> ... it's more a prompt to get things started
15:16:12 <Ralph> Chris: I'm suggesting that the faster something gets resolved, the better
15:16:25 <Ralph> ... as a reporter, delay feels like something is getting ignored
15:16:49 <wseltzer> regrets+
15:16:50 <Ralph> Liz: depending on the incident people might want to talk with others before making a complaint
15:17:04 <Ralph> ... on the investigation side that's where things tend to take a long time
15:17:22 <Ralph> ... so it would be better to reduce the time to get to investigation
15:17:32 <Ralph> Chris: making the complaint within 3 months feels OK
15:17:45 <Ralph> ... "engage with the individual within 3 months" is what stood out to me
15:17:46 <tzviya> ack ba
15:18:13 <Ralph> Barbara: I'm with Chris; I think the wording needs to be tighter, indicating we will proactively work towards resolution which wouldn't last longer than 3 months
15:18:16 <tink> q+ to respond to Cwilso's comment on timing
15:18:23 <Ralph> ... note that  proactive work would be done and you'd be updated
15:18:52 <Ralph> Tzviya: looking at the 3 months, "you should" is the mediator or the complainant?
15:19:08 <Ralph> Liz: the person filing the complaint
15:19:24 <Ralph> Tzviya: we need to make it more clear who the timeline applies to
15:19:41 <Ralph> ... and make it clear than an Ombuds needs to respond to a complaint within 24-48 hours
15:19:44 <tzviya> ack me
15:19:44 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to make a suggestion about 3 months
15:19:47 <tzviya> q+ BarbaraH
15:19:50 <Ralph> Liz: I haven't added a lot of that context
15:20:05 <Ralph> ... this would be questions related to how we fund this
15:20:06 <tink> ack me
15:20:06 <Zakim> tink, you wanted to respond to Cwilso's comment on timing
15:20:15 <Ralph> ... and if suddenly there are lots of cases
15:20:21 <Ralph> ... I'll clarify who the 3 months applies to
15:20:35 <Ralph> ... if you have a complaint against someone else you have 3 months to raise it in whatever manner you choose
15:20:41 <Ralph> ... once you have done that you are fine
15:20:55 <Ralph> ... if remediation turns into investigation, that's fine; it's part of the original complaint
15:21:17 <Ralph> ... once you have raised a complaint, can we reduce the initial response to 48 hours and an Ombuds appointed within a week?
15:21:22 <Ralph> ... that might be hard depending on funding
15:21:23 <tzviya> ack ba
15:21:51 <Ralph> Barbara: a possibility for us to consider: most of what I'm seeing is reactive
15:22:11 <Ralph> ... could we add a program to highlight leadership; where the community displays leadership in diversity and inclusion
15:22:19 <Ralph> ... the first thing is to protect someone from issues
15:22:34 <wendyreid> q+
15:22:39 <Ralph> ... what I like about the web is that it's open but we don't highlight leadership either internally or externally
15:22:54 <Ralph> Tzviya: we have a relevant topic later on the agenda
15:23:09 <Ralph> Barbara: yes; Black History Month
15:23:17 <Ralph> ... there are diversity of communities, regions of the world
15:23:40 <Ralph> ... sometimes we jump into a specific one but we don't say that diversity is broad and here's one example
15:24:29 <Ralph> Tzviya: remember that we merged two CGs: Positive Work Environment and Inclusion and Diversity
15:24:39 <Ralph> ... we're very open to ideas
15:25:53 <Ralph> Ralph: Liz, suggest looking again at https://www.w3.org/Guide/process/banning.html "Guidelines to suspend or remove participants from groups"
15:26:57 <Ralph> Tzviya: ultimately the PWE document will supercede the Guide document
15:27:03 <Ralph> ... we're trying to avoid banning where possible
15:27:10 <Ralph> <ralph> +1
15:27:26 <Ralph> ... I'd think the Guide document could be incorporated into what Liz wrote
15:27:32 <Ralph> ... it's much harsher and rarely used
15:27:40 <Ralph> ... and it's not well-known
15:27:54 <tzviya> ack ra
15:28:08 <Ralph> ... my goal is that the PWE document replaces it
15:28:11 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
15:28:11 <Ralph> <ralph> +1
15:28:40 <Ralph> WendyReid: on top of the Ombuds work and what Liz is doing, I'm working on a syllabus for chair training to address the leadership part
15:28:48 <BarbaraH> +q
15:28:59 <Ralph> ... how to run good meetings, the chair's role in conflict resolution, ...
15:29:10 <Ralph> ... the role of the chairs
15:29:25 <Ralph> ... and how to run inclusive meetings, remaining cognizant of timezones, etc.
15:29:31 <tzviya> ack b
15:29:32 <Ralph> ... this is still being worked on
15:29:40 <Ralph> Barbara: that's the baseline
15:29:53 <wendyreid> https://rak.box.com/s/mh0orlvf7ljv7h49g79ahzfil0y9zu3r
15:30:00 <Ralph> ... I suggest challenging them at the end of the training that we're looking for opportunitites to showcase leadership
15:30:11 <Ralph> ... showing that we have that internally or externally
15:30:25 <Ralph> ... the chairs are great sources and we'd love to tell their stories
15:30:45 <Ralph> Tzviya: how would you showcase leadership?
15:30:54 <Ralph> Barbara: case studies
15:31:08 <Ralph> ... where you felt a chair did a really good job expanding their community and how they did that
15:31:12 <sheila> q+
15:31:18 <Ralph> ... I could think about this and give some examples
15:31:33 <Ralph> ... we've talked about inclusion and diversity at Intel and are working on the next steps now
15:31:51 <tzviya> q+
15:31:55 <Ralph> ... I can send an example of where we had a leader or a participant of a group indicating what they did to expand inclusion and diversity
15:31:58 <tzviya> ack sh
15:32:31 <Ralph> Sheila: is the purpose of highlighting to celebrate examples of how it's been done or to provide examples for people to look to to understand what they could do differently?
15:32:37 <Ralph> ... which direction are you hoping to take this?
15:32:47 <wendyreid> q+
15:32:49 <Ralph> Barbara: lots of layers: protect when something happens, training
15:33:21 <Ralph> ... I do STEM mentoring and I have diverse candidates; in the STEM program it was highlighting how to include them
15:33:41 <Ralph> ... they want to feel that it's more than a guideline or policy but is cultural
15:33:46 <Ralph> ... they want to feel included
15:33:54 <Ralph> ... sometimes this is done with a buddy system
15:34:03 <Ralph> ... sometimes it's showing leaders who have made it cultural
15:34:30 <tzviya> ack tz
15:34:31 <Ralph> ... someone makes them feel included, not a unicorn
15:35:07 <Ralph> Tzviya: this is a complicated space; one of the things we're trying to accomplish is making sure we have codes of conduct and ombuds to make sure that if we do diversity outreach the people who join are not made to feel "othered"
15:35:23 <BarbaraH> +1
15:35:30 <cwilso> +1
15:35:35 <Ralph> ... we don't want to reach out to someone saying "we want you to join us because you are [a specific community member]"
15:35:42 <Ralph> ... it's a delicate line to walk
15:35:51 <sheila> perhaps we're talking about best practices for engaging with one another with a lens toward cultural humility? Is that right?
15:36:00 <cwilso> +1
15:36:05 <Ralph> ... I feel strongly this should be something W3C does as an organization, not [only] as a CG
15:36:31 <tzviya> q?
15:36:32 <Ralph> ... we can provide tips about inclusion, how to run diversity training; we can advise management but there's only so much a CG can accomplish
15:36:33 <tzviya> ack we
15:36:36 <Ralph> ... others' thoughts?
15:36:54 <Ralph> WendyReid: chairs, in the W3C context, do not love being in the limelight
15:37:04 <Ralph> ... we are the administrators; we make sure things are running smoothly
15:37:26 <Ralph> ... it's important to create welcoming environments, use inclusive language, ...
15:37:37 <Ralph> ... chairs are not leaders in the sense of executives
15:37:55 <Ralph> ... I look at this training as how to create better environments for our working groups
15:38:13 <Ralph> ... impressing upon chairs that because they are leaders they have a higher responsibility for what they say and how they treat others
15:38:24 <Ralph> ... impress that being inclusive is important
15:38:34 <tink> q+
15:38:34 <Ralph> ... chairs are not generally responsible for recruiting
15:38:45 <Ralph> ... so it's hard to put chairs in that position
15:38:53 <Ralph> ... I want to focus on what chairs _can_ and _should_ do
15:38:53 <tzviya> ack tink
15:39:00 <Ralph> Léonie: good point
15:39:13 <sheila> +1 wendy
15:39:18 <Ralph> ... 2 or 3 years ago the AB wrote some guidance for themselves and for the TAG on how to communicate
15:39:40 <Ralph> ... in there was some things to be aware of while communicating
15:39:45 <Ralph> ... including lead by example
15:39:49 <Ralph> Tzviya: I'll try to dig that up
15:39:55 <BarbaraH> STEM - 2 out 3 were not encouraged - https://www.idtech.com/blog/stem-education-statistics%20
15:40:19 <Ralph> topic: Black Lives Matter and Black History Month
15:40:35 <Ralph> Tzviya: a few years ago IDCG worked on writing a BLM statement
15:40:45 <Ralph> ... do we want to work on that again?
15:40:56 <Ralph> ... we are not responsible for diversity in W3C but we can make recommendations
15:41:30 <wendyreid> q+
15:41:43 <Ralph> ... we can say why we didn't publish that draft BLM statement; we got some feedback from an activist; it was a great learning exercise for us
15:42:02 <tzviya> https://nkjemisin.com/2013/09/how-long-til-black-future-month/
15:42:04 <Ralph> ... in particular she said "I'm glad the CEO is here to hear this feedback; it is your responsibility"
15:42:05 <tzviya> ack we
15:42:26 <Ralph> WendyReid: thanks for sharing that
15:42:54 <Ralph> ... I think at this point it has been so long since we originally drafted that BLM statement and even since we reworked it that I think a different approach is needed
15:42:56 <BarbaraH> +1
15:43:17 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/35 revised statement
15:43:29 <Ralph> ... I was thinking about where on w3.org such a statement should live
15:43:34 <BarbaraH> +1
15:43:38 <Ralph> ... nowhere on w3.org do we say what our values are
15:43:51 <wendyreid> q+
15:43:54 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/
15:43:56 <Ralph> ... we don't talk at all about our values
15:44:13 <Ralph> ... we have a mission, FAQs, lots of info but we don't talk about who we are
15:44:20 <Ralph> ... we talk about technology but not about people
15:44:38 <Ralph> ... there is an opportunity to create a broad statement about our commitment to diversity and inclusion
15:44:49 <BarbaraH> +q
15:45:07 <Ralph> ... we want many voices; people to join with us to create better, more inclusive, specifications for the web
15:45:12 <Ralph> ... not just the BLM statement
15:45:35 <tzviya> ack we
15:45:40 <Ralph> ... we value the diversity of our participants, we need it, and we're taking it seriously
15:45:44 <tzviya> ack ba
15:45:47 <Ralph> <ralph> +1
15:45:55 <Ralph> Barbara: that's the theme I was trying to articulate
15:46:17 <Ralph> ... when we look at inclusion, the a11y team brings up inclusion
15:46:34 <Ralph> ... we have A11y Month in May; I am so proud of the WAI team
15:46:59 <Ralph> ... we have a May event on awareness; this would be a good opportunity to showcase inclusion in partnership with WAI
15:47:27 <Ralph> Tzviya: I'm pretty sure that WAI is planning a lot for Global Accessibility Awareness Day
15:47:40 <tzviya> https://github.com/WebStandardsFuture/Vision
15:47:44 <Ralph> ... there's no question that W3C is excellent about including people with disabilities
15:48:11 <Ralph> ... see ^^; it's an attempt on working on a vision statement as Wendy was talking about
15:48:13 <BarbaraH> Google W3C Inclusion - Here is the results. https://www.w3.org/WAI/fundamentals/accessibility-usability-inclusion/
15:48:19 <Ralph> ... this was written by several AB members
15:48:25 <sheila> q+
15:48:41 <tzviya> ack sheila
15:48:42 <Ralph> ... there is work going on to make these principles clear, including diversity, accessibility, and other foundational principles of W3C
15:48:55 <Ralph> Sheila: great to see this draft; I would love to see this become more publicly available
15:49:08 <Ralph> ... one thing that is often missing in these conversations is the strategic goals piece
15:49:30 <Ralph> ... I think there's an opportunity for this group to recommend tactics; a phased move toward these aspirational goals
15:49:42 <Ralph> ... it's very important to signal what the organization and its members care about
15:49:57 <Ralph> ... questions then arise on what actions we are taking
15:50:11 <wendyreid> q+
15:50:14 <tzviya> q+
15:50:19 <Ralph> ... there are specific initiatives around digital accessibility, but other areas we don't see specific initiatives
15:50:44 <tzviya> ack we
15:50:49 <Ralph> ... we should do that in addition to making a public statement about who we are and what we believe in; showing what actions we are taking to achieve those
15:51:08 <Ralph> WendyReid: that reminds me of a conversation we had to implement an equity review board
15:51:21 <Ralph> ... I wonder if this is where we can get strategic
15:51:35 <Ralph> ... Equity Review as part of Horizontal Review could be one way to do that
15:51:55 <Ralph> ... we don't look at whether a spec potentially impacts people from different groups differently
15:52:16 <Ralph> ... or does a spec have technical requirements that could be disincentives to people?
15:52:34 <Ralph> ... looking at the equity lens could be one way to implement strategic goals on the technology side
15:52:35 <tzviya> ack tzv
15:52:57 <Ralph> Tzviya: we talked a lot about getting that up and running; we didn't figure it out logistically
15:53:03 <Ralph> ... I'd love to talk with the TAG about that
15:53:42 <Ralph> ... another thing we've suggested and can make recommendations is to pay attention to who [AC Reps] are nominating as WG participants
15:54:10 <Ralph> ... I heard a presentation from a company that their entire staff was neurodiverse and that was a company commitment
15:54:29 <Ralph> ... there are networks that we could tap into
15:54:43 <Ralph> ... I'd love to get these suggestions documented
15:55:04 <Ralph> [adjourned]
15:55:08 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
15:55:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, Léonie, Ralph, WendyReid, Sheila, Jemma, Barbara, (tink), Jem, cwilso, JemmaKu, Hober
15:55:10 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:55:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/15-pwe-minutes.html Zakim
15:55:13 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:55:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwe
15:59:50 <Jem> agenda?
16:00:36 <tzviya> rrsagent, make logs public
16:00:49 <tzviya> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/15-pwe-minutes.html tzviya
16:12:12 <Ralph__> Ralph__ has joined #pwe