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15:18:43 <wolfgang> zakim, start meeting
15:18:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:18:44 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Community Group
15:19:14 <wolfgang> Date: 9 Febr 2022
15:19:54 <wolfgang> Chair: Wolfgang Schindler
15:20:50 <ivan> present+
15:29:45 <wolfgang> present+
15:29:51 <ivan> present-
15:40:06 <wolfgang> Agenda: 1. update of Task Forces (Accessibility, Documentation/MDN, ...)
15:41:13 <wolfgang> 2. Github Issues, esp. https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/23
15:41:29 <wolfgang> 3. AOB
15:44:32 <LauraB__> LauraB__ has joined #publishingcg
15:47:03 <wolfgang> who is here?
15:47:21 <wolfgang> zakim, who is here?
15:47:21 <Zakim> Present: wolfgang
15:47:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see LauraB__, RRSAgent, Zakim, wolfgang, ivan, tzviya, dauwhe_, `join_subline, bigbluehat
15:54:17 <zheng_xu> zheng_xu has joined #publishingcg
15:55:38 <wolfgang> Scribe: zheng_xu
15:55:41 <zheng_xu> zheng_xu has changed the topic to: update of TF and github issues
15:56:21 <zheng_xu> zheng_xu has changed the topic to: PCG monthly meeting Feb 9, 2022
15:56:39 <zheng_xu> zakim, start meeting
15:56:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:56:41 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Community Group
15:58:01 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #publishingcg
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15:58:25 <avneeshsingh> present+
15:58:43 <zheng_xu> present+
15:59:42 <LauraB__> present+
16:00:50 <tzviya> present+
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16:01:32 <wendyreid> present+
16:01:39 <gpellegrino> present+
16:02:12 <zheng_xu> wolfgang: hello and welcome to today's meeting
16:02:27 <zheng_xu> ... first agenda item, update TF, start with a11y TF
16:02:27 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #publishingcg
16:02:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:02:52 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1643
16:02:58 <zheng_xu> avneeshsingh: we have been focusing on the task of identifying what is important aria roles which is required by aria wg
16:03:04 <mateus> mateus has joined #publishingcg
16:03:33 <mateus> present+
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16:03:36 <zheng_xu> ... we were approaching different web browser to support more dpub aria roles
16:03:41 <CharlesL1> present+
16:04:07 <zheng_xu> ... and need to convince more web browser the importantensy of dpub roles
16:04:29 <avneeshsingh> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atUkcAbkHpS5eUJ1rdDCrQ3saY8HZEMTNtWkanASLo4/edit?usp=sharing
16:04:35 <zheng_xu> ... I have provided the link to the spreasheet on google docs ^
16:04:49 <zheng_xu> ... now it's open to review before end of this week
16:04:52 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/85
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16:05:25 <zheng_xu> ... next action item for us is to present this large role group to aria wg
16:05:44 <zheng_xu> ... they are also in the above spreadsheet
16:06:25 <zheng_xu> ... we also needed to update a11y guide
16:06:51 <zheng_xu> ... we will start biweekly call regarding to above
16:07:26 <zheng_xu> wolfgang: any questions regarding to this?
16:07:28 <zheng_xu> q?
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16:07:51 <Alex_Grover> present+
16:08:05 <zheng_xu> Bill_Kasdorf: thanks Avneesh and group for the important job
16:08:17 <CharlesL1> q+
16:08:35 <wolfgang> ack CharlesL
16:09:13 <zheng_xu> CharlesL1: we are also trying to get away from epub:type through this dpub aria work
16:09:35 <zheng_xu> ... so that they can be adopted to other web publication as well
16:10:01 <zheng_xu> avneeshsingh: yes, that is also why dpub aria role is important
16:10:53 <zheng_xu> CharlesL1: and this work is to lay a foundation to let AT understand semantic of html/book and can implement accordingly
16:11:07 <zheng_xu> q?
16:11:28 <mateus> topic: Documentation
16:11:29 <zheng_xu> wolfgang: next agenda item, any update about documentation
16:12:05 <zheng_xu> tzviya: we had a few version of helping on this. Maybe Daniel is working on this.
16:12:16 <zheng_xu> mateus: I will reach out
16:12:48 <zheng_xu> wolfgang: any other update on TF? and sharing information?
16:12:50 <tzviya> s/Maybe Daniel is working on this./I know Dan Lazin is working on this
16:12:50 <zheng_xu> q?
16:13:31 <zheng_xu> ... next move on to github issues
16:13:43 <mateus> topic: GitHub issue discussions
16:13:47 <mateus> q+
16:13:48 <zheng_xu> https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues/23
16:13:52 <zheng_xu> q?
16:13:59 <wendyreid> q+
16:14:44 <wolfgang> ack wendyreid
16:15:16 <zheng_xu> wendyreid: the FXL a11y had this idea in the ticket. we realized something we need some incubation.
16:15:36 <zheng_xu> ... this is not about multiple rendition
16:16:27 <zheng_xu> ... we want to come up a way that content creator could create an easy switchable way for the same book
16:17:03 <zheng_xu> ... we currently have two proposal (in the issue) 1. have different stylesheet 2. provide a fallback
16:17:30 <zheng_xu> ... so that FXL book could be easily switching between fixed layout and reflow
16:17:48 <zheng_xu> ... so when user needed fxl to be reflow they can have option
16:18:03 <zheng_xu> ... we are looking for ideas, opinions
16:18:48 <zheng_xu> wolfgang: in my opinion it could be very useful
16:18:53 <wolfgang> ack mateus
16:19:22 <zheng_xu> mateus: we do plan to work with PBG to organize issues better way
16:19:39 <zheng_xu> ... hope can use this issue as an example
16:19:57 <zheng_xu> ... it would be great to see and POC on this
16:20:28 <zheng_xu> q+
16:21:06 <wolfgang> ack zheng_xu
16:21:25 <avneeshsingh> q+
16:21:26 <wolfgang> q?
16:21:37 <wendyreid> q+
16:21:49 <wolfgang> ack avneeshsingh
16:22:14 <zheng_xu> avneeshsingh: the use case for fxl book for a11y is to expose text
16:22:56 <zheng_xu> ... one issue for low vision person is when change font size then the screen will be very difficult to zoom
16:23:22 <zheng_xu> ... fxl book also have issue with alternative color about back and frontend color
16:23:35 <CharlesL1> q+
16:23:38 <zheng_xu> ... so it's not much issue with screen reader but it's more issue for low vision users
16:23:46 <wolfgang> ack wendyreid
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16:24:48 <zheng_xu> wendyreid: in fxl a11y TF we talked a lot about guideline we think it's challenge for low vision user for the content
16:24:48 <Naomi_> present+
16:25:19 <zheng_xu> ... and if for dylexic user it usually can not change font now
16:25:33 <zheng_xu> q+
16:25:40 <wolfgang> ack CharlesL
16:26:00 <zheng_xu> CharlesL1: the font type is very important especially for open dyslexic user
16:26:36 <zheng_xu> ... font is very important for each type of user not just because of dyslexic but other font as well
16:26:37 <wolfgang> ack zheng_xu
16:26:45 <wolfgang> q?
16:27:17 <wendyreid> q+
16:28:56 <mateus> zheng_xu: Reading systems have not implemented the option to change fonts, because of content layout and reflow problems. In the experiment I'm doing, I am allowing the user to change the font or other properties. We could also incubate this to see what solutions work better. We could see what happens when letting users change the font of the publication. I don't know if that will lead to switching fixed layout to reflowable. Fixed
16:28:56 <mateus> layout doesn't care about the reading flow in some sense, which leads to some difficulty.
16:29:05 <wolfgang> ack wendyreid
16:29:10 <mateus> scribe+
16:29:29 <wolfgang> q?
16:29:42 <zheng_xu> hand over scribe to mateus
16:29:50 <zheng_xu> thnx
16:30:09 <avneeshsingh> Switching to other call. Thank you for putting accessibility update in front of agenda!
16:31:07 <wolfgang> q?
16:31:16 <mateus> wendyreid: That is a big problem. We're trying to limit what we really change, because we know there are only so many ways publishers can work to change their epubs. We need to learn what it means for publishers to do more work, and what it takes to update flx publications to update them to also be reflowable—for example, can they add another stylesheet?
16:32:29 <mateus> zheng_xu: Some reading systems in France have tried to convert flx ebooks to reflowable ebooks, but it sounds like they didn't work very well. One reason it it's difficult to make this switch... I was just thinking, maybe we can see if there is any way we can make flx more accessible for low-vision users.
16:32:48 <wolfgang> q?
16:32:53 <mateus> ... I am not sure if that is a solution, or if there is another way we can go. The solution wasn't popular for some reason.
16:34:01 <zheng_xu> mateus: can anyone please add more use case.
16:34:15 <zheng_xu> ... please feel free to reach out to us
16:34:37 <zheng_xu> ... we don't have template for use case yet
16:34:44 <zheng_xu> q+
16:35:11 <wolfgang> ack zheng_xu
16:36:08 <mateus> wolfgang: Anything else you would like to discuss today?
16:36:57 <mateus> zheng_xu: This meeting is the first time we've used the W3C calendar. Next time we will use a recurring meeting, for every 2nd week of each month. Hopefully this will make it easier for people to arrange their schedules.
16:37:26 <mateus> wolfgang: If you want to make a proposal or discuss anything else, this is the last call.
16:38:20 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/69dec8df-03b0-43d1-9be5-c9c9bef69a7b
16:38:25 <mateus> wendyreid: We have a meeting right after this with the new Interactive Media CG. They're trying to standardize interactive media. Originally they reached out to Sync Media, but we thought Publishing would also be interested. If anyone is available at noon Eastern, you should come. It's just an intro and will probably be fun, not very serious.
16:39:27 <mateus> tzviya: It would be interesting to talk about mini smil. (Will sent a link.)
16:39:50 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/sync-media-pub
16:40:46 <CharlesL1> q+
16:41:00 <mateus> zheng_xu: Can we also get more users, e.g. to help with low-vision use cases? For example, if we have use cases we want to incubate and test out, the CG can do that, but we do need real users to validate the incubation.
16:41:09 <wolfgang> ack CharlesL
16:42:00 <mateus> CharlesL: I'm part of the epubtest.org suite that George, Avneesh, and others are also involved in. One of the goals is to provide test files to validate different reading systems' functionality. As long as we can sideload into a system, we can run a test and let you know how it does.
16:42:46 <mateus> wolfgang: Seems like there are no more topics. Let's adjourn, or we might see each other at the Interactive CG call. Bye!
16:43:14 <zheng_xu> zakim, end meeting
16:43:14 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ivan, wolfgang, avneeshsingh, zheng_xu, LauraB__, tzviya, wendyreid, gpellegrino, Bill_Kasdorf, mateus, CharlesL, Alex_Grover, Naomi_
16:43:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:43:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/09-publishingcg-minutes.html Zakim
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16:43:20 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, zheng_xu; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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