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11:02:36 <kaz> meeting: WoT Architecture
11:02:55 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Lagally
11:03:18 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot-arch
11:03:20 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-arch
11:03:51 <dape> dape has joined #wot-arch
11:04:05 <kaz> present+ Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:05:02 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
11:05:02 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima
11:06:10 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
11:06:30 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
11:06:36 <kaz> topic: Agenda
11:07:01 <cris> cris has joined #wot-arch
11:07:02 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_Feb_3rd.2C_2022
11:07:08 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Architecture_Feb_3rd.2C_2022 Agenda for today
11:07:19 <kaz> ml: (goes through the agenda)
11:07:24 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
11:08:16 <kaz> topic: Minutes
11:08:31 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2022/01/27-wot-arch-minutes.html Jan-27
11:08:47 <kaz> ml: (goes through the minutes)
11:09:18 <kaz> approved
11:09:34 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
11:09:58 <kaz> topic: Scalable Event Model
11:10:36 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1323 wot-thing-description issue 1323 - Missing event/notification affordance or operation
11:11:17 <kaz> ml: (shows the diagram within the issue)
11:11:20 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1323#issuecomment-999053085 diagram
11:11:42 <kaz> ml: a servient having two different roles
11:12:11 <kaz> ... Consuming Thing and talking with another Thing
11:12:31 <kaz> ... subscribe operation and unsubscribe operation
11:12:40 <kaz> ... then notify operation
11:13:38 <kaz> ... my idea is TD can describe all of them
11:14:08 <kaz> ... TD has the Event affordance
11:16:04 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#eventaffordance Thing Description - 5.3.1.5 EventAffordance
11:16:47 <kaz> ml: (explains the vocabulary term there)
11:17:12 <kaz> ... if we want to describe a Consumer
11:17:24 <kaz> ... who receives the events
11:17:56 <kaz> ... some backyard communication within the Consumer Servient
11:18:16 <kaz> s/backyard/backward/
11:18:33 <dape> q+
11:18:34 <sebastian> q+
11:18:52 <kaz> mm: we have notification from the Thing
11:18:58 <kaz> ... the Consumer responds
11:19:10 <kaz> ml: yes
11:19:13 <kaz> q+
11:19:41 <kaz> mm: not clear which side touches what
11:19:48 <kaz> ... the diagram could be improved
11:20:53 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot-arch
11:20:57 <kaz> ... you want to describe the interaction here by TD
11:21:21 <kaz> ... for example, the data payload and the data schema
11:21:37 <kaz> s/interaction/metadata on the interaction/
11:22:10 <kaz> ... good to indicate where the related various pieces are
11:22:32 <kaz> ml: there was a proposal by Ege below within the issue
11:23:23 <kaz> mm: Sebastian mentioned the example was odd
11:23:26 <kaz> ack d
11:23:33 <McCool> q?
11:23:36 <kaz> dp: don't want to argue the diagram itself
11:23:44 <kaz> ... but what you were saying was
11:23:55 <kaz> ... not just exposed side
11:24:06 <kaz> ... so far don't understand it
11:24:25 <kaz> ... I'm confused
11:24:40 <kaz> ... seems to be trying to describe both the sides
11:24:54 <kaz> ... we need to clarify what we want
11:24:57 <cris> q+
11:25:12 <kaz> ml: simple example here
11:25:19 <kaz> ... is an intermediary
11:25:48 <kaz> dp: we need to understand what is needed
11:26:26 <kaz> ml: you may communicate additional data
11:26:40 <kaz> ... my generic thinking is
11:27:05 <kaz> ... if we can make this a generic model, the discussion would be easier
11:27:09 <kaz> ack s
11:27:18 <kaz> sk: looking at this diagram and the TD spec
11:27:33 <kaz> ... adding statusresponse itself is fine
11:27:54 <kaz> ... but everything you want to do can be done by TD already
11:28:13 <kaz> ... so don't really understand what is needed here
11:28:30 <kaz> ... what is the actual difference between the two example TD, for example?
11:29:08 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1323#issuecomment-1022288921 two TDs withing Lagally's comment
11:29:38 <kaz> (FireAlarmButton and FireAlarmistner)
11:29:55 <kaz> sk: why the second TD (FireAlarmListener) is needed?
11:30:03 <kaz> ... how/who consumes it?
11:30:40 <kaz> ml: (shoes a part of the first TD, FireAlarmButton)
11:30:46 <kaz> ... getting understand your point
11:30:47 <kaz> [[
11:30:48 <kaz>                 "type": "object",
11:30:48 <kaz>                 "properties": {
11:30:48 <kaz>                        ...
11:30:48 <kaz>                        listener: uri,
11:30:49 <kaz>                        ...
11:30:53 <kaz>                     }
11:30:55 <kaz>                 }
11:30:57 <kaz> ]]
11:31:11 <kaz> sk: you have to provide information using a "Form"
11:31:30 <dape> q?
11:31:34 <kaz> ... but the content of TD should be the same with the data you provided
11:31:50 <kaz> ... expressing what the Thing should do for you
11:32:27 <kaz> ml: data vs dataResponse
11:32:39 <kaz> sk: you should define the expected Action here
11:33:06 <kaz> ... the question is what would be the value of the information here?
11:33:37 <kaz> zakim, who is on the call?
11:33:37 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Sebastian_Kaebisch
11:33:59 <kaz> sk: you have to set up a new Thing for the Consumer side
11:34:29 <kaz> ... if the Consumer thinks the original Thing can't fit its usage, the Consumer needs another Thing
11:35:04 <kaz> ... you can only communicate with the Thing already defined on the Thing side
11:35:34 <kaz> ... so I don't understand what is needed here...
11:35:55 <kaz> ml: we should see what can be done/implemented during Plugfests
11:36:15 <kaz> ... not suggesting we should standardize this approach right away
11:37:00 <kaz> ... we can have a workaround, but having this kind of additional mechanism would make things easier
11:37:24 <kaz> ... I can come up with some implementation for the Plugfest
11:37:43 <kaz> sk: the question is that we need to freeze the normative features for TD 1.1
11:38:10 <kaz> ... I believe what you want to do can be done by the current TD 1.1
11:38:33 <kaz> ... we need to finalize the spec shortly
11:38:41 <kaz> ... and we've already started the wide reviews
11:38:58 <kaz> ml: I know
11:39:08 <kaz> ... please see the PRs here
11:39:37 <McCool> q?
11:39:49 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1329 PR 1329 - Event consumer: Alternative 1 - event operation
11:40:05 <kaz> sk: that PR is for additional "datarsponse" field
11:40:14 <McCool> q+
11:40:14 <kaz> ... and I'm OK with the addition itself
11:40:46 <kaz> ... but we don't need Consumer TD
11:40:55 <kaz> s/TD/TDs/
11:41:04 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/1329/21ce84a...6a563db.html#eventaffordance diff
11:41:15 <kaz> ck k
11:41:18 <kaz> s/ck k/
11:41:20 <kaz> ack k
11:44:05 <kaz> kaz: TD should concentrate on the generic data model for WoT
11:44:45 <kaz> ... and this kind of detailed event handling mechanism should be done as part of the possible management Thing and the processing model for that
11:45:20 <kaz> ml: if we strike out the "Application" part from the diagram, probably the story would become easier
11:45:55 <kaz> ... we just need the "Consumed Thing" on the Consumer side
11:46:07 <kaz> ... and the "Exposed Thing" on the Thing side
11:46:19 <kaz> ack c
11:46:33 <kaz> ca: the problem here is
11:46:39 <kaz> ... the diagram is quite generic
11:46:46 <kaz> ... every thing event can be mapped here
11:47:11 <kaz> ... we can describe it successfully using the current TD already
11:47:28 <kaz> ... the diagram shows too tight coupling
11:47:46 <kaz> ... having two TDs working together itself would make sense
11:47:54 <kaz> ... but not sure how to handle them
11:48:00 <McCool> q?
11:48:09 <kaz> ml: think about the telemetry example
11:48:20 <kaz> ... Thing talking with a cloud service
11:49:38 <kaz> ca: I've looked at Ege's comment about that point
11:49:53 <kaz> ... we should concentrate on that use case then
11:50:02 <kaz> ... and think about what is really needed
11:50:09 <kaz> q?
11:50:19 <kaz> sk: any reference for that?
11:50:29 <kaz> ml: need to search for the resource...
11:50:55 <kaz> ack m
11:51:03 <kaz> mm: we should discuss the next steps given the time
11:51:39 <kaz> ... introducing an additional feature
11:51:49 <kaz> ... but are we OK with the gap for the use case?
11:52:17 <kaz> ml: let's assume we have data and dataresponse
11:52:27 <kaz> mm: I'm OK with having dataresponse itself
11:53:16 <kaz> ... would suggest we focus on event handling caused by the change
11:53:25 <kaz> ml: ok
11:54:44 <kaz> kaz: are we OK with accepting PR 1329 then?
11:54:53 <kaz> mm: except additional notify
11:55:16 <kaz> ml: I'll work on the change and remove the additional "notify" then
11:55:27 <kaz> ... would that be acceptable?
11:55:39 <kaz> sk: I'm OK with "dataresponse"
11:55:48 <kaz> ml: will create another PR for that then
11:56:24 <kaz> proposal: Lagally to create an updated PR for dataresponse without notify
11:56:49 <kaz> proposal: Lagally to create an updated PR for dataresponse without notify (can be included in the 2nd WD if possible)
11:56:59 <kaz> resolution: Lagally to create an updated PR for dataresponse without notify (can be included in the 2nd WD if possible)
11:57:13 <kaz> topic: PR 702
11:58:11 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/702 wot-architecture PR 702 - regenerate assertions
11:58:20 <kaz> (no objections; merged)
11:59:41 <kaz> mm: please create a test directory for that
11:59:49 <kaz> ml: would defer it
12:00:09 <sebastian> I need to move to another meeting
12:00:12 <sebastian> bye
12:00:41 <kaz> ... would like to discuss it next week
12:00:59 <kaz> [adjourned]
12:01:06 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:01:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:01:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/02/03-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz