Meeting minutes
<jamesn> https://
<jamesn> https://
should i run it now?
or wait
#1689 assigned to 1.4
New PR Triage
<jamesn> https://
<jamesn> https://
#107 ready to merge no disagreements
Deep Dive planning
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no deep dive chosen , no dd on 2/24 may or may not be a meeting will need a chair
Figure out what to do with the DPUB mappings overlap with the ARIA Core spec, in the context of newer implementation differences
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James Craig added updates, James should probabably wait for dpub triage before we do anything else
Is this proposal overcome by events?: Updated spec text to reflect the processing of hidden elements when c…
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<pkra> https://
<pkra> https://
alex impossible to hide sub sub trees, so once you point to a hidden subtree all nodes would be read
aria-hidden could mean don't use that part of the subtree
they are leaning towards just removing those nodes with JS
clarity for spec is more important
James should close #137 as a non starter
<Jem> as far as it is simper and easy to understand, I strongly support!
Bryan is happy as long as there is agreement
Any updates?: Prohibit rowcount and rowindex on rows in treegrid and prohibit posinset and setsize on rows in tables and grids
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remove it from agenda we agreed
we are going to focus on secondary actions first
Any Updates?: When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?
Do we have any decisions?: Clarify usage of aria-haspopup
<jamesn> https://
Scott, our last talk he put notes on the 2 directions
returning to true/false or true/false/menu/generic name
more discussion has occcured on the thread since
why keep the attribute?
keep it for backwards compatibility
knowing something is going to popup is not important on the invoking element
bryan, we do needed for menutitem
to indicate subroles
Scott the attribute doesn't make sense on any other element
stefan, dialog grids, why should these be declared?
Scott, there could be an endless number of UI token values
describing everything that could be popped up is untenable
stefan, aria-haspopup could take and ID ref value
Scott, element might not be in the Dom breaking the Id ref
James if there is a visual indication that something will popup
shouldn't we have something in ARIA for that purpose
Bryan is in favor
<Jem> if there is no visual indication of control, it will be the violation of wcag 2.2 visible control.
bryan finds a lot of controls with attached menus
he believes it should support attached interactive roles
if you don't have it, users will not know anything is present
siri aria-haspopup should indicate what is being opened
scott disagrees
Matt wonders why he needs information that others don't get
Scott, do we think there is value informing users somehting has popped up at the control level
Scott, front load that info or let them know what will occurt
James thinks the interction should be defined by the thing that was opened rather then the trigger
bryan, the menu button changes behavior
sighted user expects menu style focus managment
after activating a menu button
move focus to the first menu item
but when that doesn't happen, if they have to press the down arrow for the first item
aria-haspopup is needed for jaws
james mentioned nvda which doesn't do that
matt, there is a role for menubuton in windows
in aria 1.0 we used a property rather than a role
James if all menubuttons were announced as buttons
cyn and james windows users may be confused
james macos reads as popup button
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matt html select on mac feels like menu
but on windows if feels like a combobox
james/matt macos windows different select behaviors
jcraig: deep dive topic somewhat related to this discussion of ARIA's rigidity, Brian Kardell from Igalia wanted to discuss mixin roles, effectively additive roles (something can be both a "link" and a "heading") which would match the iOS Accessibility API pretty well... any combination of traits.
altenative to ARIA
Matt, mentioned control pattens in UIA
similar to iO
iO
s
matt, decision? deprecate specific values
James specific values don't do any good and are not supported
stefan, why were they invented?
due to combobox 1.1
Bryan, Rich was in favor of token system
James, PR to remove values
Scott, does not solve the issue of notifiying users of rendered UI
<Jem> +1 to scott
and it will dismiss on you if you leave it
<jcraig> [accidental edit]
James overloading popup is a bad idea
matt, make a separate issue
scott, anything can be a popup
people are implementing things that dismmiss in different ways
stefan, how should screen readers announce it?
matt stay with historical precedent
add a menubutton role and get rid of aria-haspopu
stefan it is needed , many wierd designs
james rejects removing aria-haspopup, mentions popovers speech bubble UI
they don't limit popups to menus
James, sighted users know something is going to show up via discovery
james chevrons in zoom could mean popup
but there are no visual distinction
matt, forum in ARIA At
james , can we get a PR that puts aria-haspopup in a better state
Scott and Matt will work on it
Carolyn, true/false/menu if the value outside those values is true
but dialogs should be false
listbox,tree.grid, not used
<Jem> I found this aria-popup discussion is very helpful. thanks, everyone.
bryan is in favor of combobox evaluating to true