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Which are the more frequently used DPUB ARIA roles?

<avneeshsingh> main issue:

<avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1643

avneeshsingh hand over to mgarrish to the first agenda

mgarrish basically it was raised in Aria about a number of issues related to Aria module
… the dpub aria is to trying to improve dpub aria better than put role into aria
… we can document better to help understand ARIA Authoring Practices Guide
… there are about 47 roles but what is the most important roles for us to document
… for this meeting, it's basically to narrow the larger roles to smaller list

avneeshsingh one thing we wanted to notice is chrome including playbooks has large improvement on epub-aria support
… the main objective of this meeting is priotizing epub area roles

tzviya II think Apple is good enough
… and want to conform with society such as JAWS and other

GeorgeK my concern is once webkit implement it would it duplicate with other world

<tzviya> s/ think Apple is not refusing to implement it but their concern is if google implementation/I think Apple's concern is that the Chrome implementation might be too much

avneeshsingh aria's response is to expose aria
… they don't tell AT what to speak and how to speak

GeorgeK people might have with different requirement for super tech users
… they process information different with normal people
… how can we satisfy both needs

<avneeshsingh> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1atUkcAbkHpS5eUJ1rdDCrQ3saY8HZEMTNtWkanASLo4/edit?usp=sharing

avneeshsingh we came into a prioritize the roles above
… we ended up with having 50+ High and Critical items in the list. how can we narrow it down a bit more
… and how to move forward with this list

avneeshsingh the higher items are actionable items

<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to suggest a way forward

tzviya I think it's how we could sell this list to APG
… maybe we can group some of them but not suggest to remove yet
… suggest not start with importancy of list items

avneeshsingh should we go through high priority items one by one?

CharlesL starting with items from top
… most of items are Structural
… doc-toc is the highest one obviously

mgarrish just needed some clarification
… is there any policy to define Critical, High and other level
… so we could use the criteria

CharlesL there is a lot of epubs that publisher is putting in. So we needed this to be clear that publisher could label book correctly
… might need more publisher to help answer this

GeorgeK there seems to be some items that is only used by publisher but not other industry
… such as doc-index and some of others

Bill_Kasdorf some of the items are related to publisher's workflow
… one thing is once it's published for example some section will always have the same header such as "Abstract", "Appendix"
… how we could help reader to understand that

CharlesL answering Paul's question. Good questions, Benetech and Daisy might need to survey end users

avneeshsingh there is an issue that W3C does not really connect to end users and community is doing that
… can we look at the list from end user perspective as well?

pascal I think some of the items might also impact to end user a lot
… the title of the section from end user perspective is to use it to determine if I should read the section.
… I also think we could probably find end users through some organizations

<Madeleine> +Present

tzviya footnote and other types of notes might get higher priority but I understand it's not a lot books having hundreds of notes

GeorgeK the critical items I think are some of these are blocking user from reading the book
… for example so many notes that user can not read the book
… if any marks could help end user understand that then they can at least read the book
… so, if any items could help user to read the book then should be critical
… or for example page number might be very noisy for end user as well
… since it was read aloud each page

mgarrish when I look at the list I am thinking if any items one step below Critical it should be great help user to read the book
… for example bibliography maybe should be Medium

CharlesL let's review critical items
… doc-backlink, any objection to have it in Critical?

(no)
… next biblioref, good
… glossref, good
… doc-index

index, bibliography and appendex suggest to move to Medium

next doc-noteref, keep

next pagebreak and pagelist, keep

GeorgeK does pagelist has to be a list of 1 to 800?

CharlesL next doc-chapter

should it be high?
… I think could be Critical?

tzviya if we don't consider it as Critical then we should leave a note there

gpellegrino we usually split chapter to a different html file
… I think it's probably high or medium

GeorgeK I can see publishers might use a separate file for "chapter"
… I think it should keep as high

doc-conclusion move to Medium?

CharlesL doc-conclusion move to Medium. all agree
… next doc-endnotes

GeorgeK I recommend to keep it as high

CharlesL do we tie doc-endnotes to doc-chapter?

Naomi endnotes is still a bit different from chapter

CharlesL move endnotes to Critical
… next, doc-example
… it depends on what kind of book structure we have

Naomi it could be a blocker for user to read the book
… is it critical to say some items might be content specific item to be critical since it might be blocked in some type of books?

CharlesL doc-example move to Medium

avneeshsingh should we assemble again next week for this list?
… let's have one more week of discussion on this

Overview of the feedback received by EDRLab, France for User experience guide for accessibility metadata

laurent_ for the a11y of epubs on each books, EDRLab we have a session of workshop coming soon
… we presented some a11y guides to publishers such as onix and stuff
… and we asked for feedback
… one feedback is since the guide are provided by group of expert so when we put it to large audience they might not have much idea of certain items
… so we did some proposal of different profile regarding to a11y for example certain profile for certain user group
… there is also needs for search items
… search accessibility contents

avneeshsingh bottom line is once we got this priority we need to come back to user experience
… so, very interesting works ahead
… thank you very much for the feedback
… meet you all next week at the same time

zakmin make minits