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12:03:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-irc
12:03:58 <kaz> meeting: WoT Profile
12:04:09 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ben_Francis, Michael_Lagally
12:04:10 <benfrancis> benfrancis has joined #wot-profile
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12:07:04 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
12:07:18 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima
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12:08:05 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:08:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:08:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:08:31 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#WoT_Profile_-_Jan_26th.2C_2022
12:10:03 <kaz> chair: Lagally
12:10:19 <kaz> present+ Michael_McCool
12:10:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:10:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:11:20 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-profile
12:11:24 <McCool> ml: want to talk about roadmap and timeline [08:07] <McCool> ... and then continue the requirements discussion [08:07] <McCool> ... incl definition of out-of-the-box interoperability [08:09] <McCool> ... would like to use issue tracker to resolve requirements point by point rather than opening general discussion [08:10] <McCool> mm: would like also give a status update on self-description - plan to resolve
12:11:52 <McCool> topic: minutes
12:12:05 <McCool> ml: approval of minutes of previous call
12:12:47 <McCool> mm: changed the irc, so under wot-profile now
12:13:39 <kaz> i/topic: minutes/topic: Agenda/
12:13:39 <kaz> i/topic: minutes/ml: want to talk about roadmap and timeline/
12:13:39 <kaz> i/topic: minutes/... and then continue the requirements discussion/
12:13:39 <kaz> i/topic: minutes/... incl definition of out-of-the-box interoperability/
12:13:40 <kaz> i/topic: minutes/... would like to use issue tracker to resolve requirements point by point rather than opening general discussion/
12:13:42 <kaz> i/topic: minutes/mm: would like also give a status update on self-description - plan to resolve/
12:14:16 <kaz> s/ml: want to talk about roadmap and timeline [08:07] <McCool> ... and then continue the requirements discussion [08:07] <McCool> ... incl definition of out-of-the-box interoperability [08:09] <McCool> ... would like to use issue tracker to resolve requirements point by point rather than opening general discussion [08:10] <McCool> mm: would like also give a status update on self-description - plan to resolve//
12:15:37 <McCool> ml: typo fix; timeline and schedule; link to requirements on github (clean up of *'s)
12:15:57 <McCool> ml: can we approve the minutes?
12:16:08 <McCool> ml: hearing no objections... approved
12:16:12 <McCool> topic: roadmap
12:17:15 <McCool> ml: pull out into powerpoint to edit...
12:17:33 <kaz> [[
12:17:34 <kaz> 1. clarify requirements
12:17:34 <kaz> 2. profile scope, identify gaps
12:17:34 <kaz> 3. contributions to resolve normative gaps
12:17:34 <kaz> 4. contributions to resolve informative gaps
12:17:34 <kaz> 5. publication of second working draft
12:17:36 <kaz> 6. plugfest/testfest
12:17:38 <kaz> 7. incorporate review feedback from 2nd WD review
12:17:40 <kaz> 8. publication of candidate recommendation
12:17:42 <kaz> ]]
12:17:56 <McCool> q+
12:19:48 <kaz> ack m
12:19:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:19:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:20:17 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:20:41 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-profile
12:20:43 <kaz> i/topic: Agenda/scribenick: kaz/
12:20:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:20:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:21:28 <kaz> i/approval of mi/scribenick: McCool/
12:21:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:21:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:22:40 <McCool> mm: the schedule really can't be extended further; also, I suggest we make the requirements as narrow as possible
12:23:05 <McCool> ... KISS principle; the simpler the spec is, the easier it will be to get it done (and through wide review....)
12:24:25 <McCool> ml: edits points on roadmap to add suggest durations
12:26:35 <McCool> mm: proposed schedule puts finalization of normative gaps around time of first plugfest
12:26:48 <McCool> ... so we could at least do some preliminary testing in that plugfest
12:27:34 <McCool> ml: so end of March we should have a sync point
12:27:45 <McCool> ... then clean up some informative gaps
12:28:00 <McCool> ... and a second working draft around mid-May
12:31:34 <McCool> mm: note second test fest should focus on testing and generating an implementation report, which implies we need stable implementations a few weeks prior
12:32:14 <benfrancis> q+
12:32:47 <McCool> mm: need to keep things narrow to hit this
12:33:04 <McCool> bf: given our current velocity is less than one pr per call
12:33:23 <McCool> ... so we would need to have 23 calls to empty the current prs
12:33:39 <McCool> ml: well, some of these are obsolete and will go away
12:33:45 <kaz> q?
12:33:47 <kaz> ack b
12:33:49 <McCool> ... we are doing a second loop
12:33:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:33:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:34:32 <McCool> ml: but I hear you, you feel this is not realistic
12:34:51 <McCool> bf: only realistic if we review and close PRs out of meetings
12:34:55 <McCool> q+
12:35:06 <kaz> q+
12:36:03 <McCool> mm: suggest compromise where we use labels to identify easy cases, i.e. things that are obsolete, things that are not contentious (editorial)
12:36:14 <McCool> ack m
12:36:44 <McCool> kaz: should be recall deadline of charter period itself
12:37:03 <McCool> ... and consider how long things should take; can go bottom up
12:37:41 <McCool> ... for example, if need to finalize normalize features, and only have 1mo, then we need to shorten requirements
12:38:57 <McCool> mm: note that for first plugfest I was only talking about initial testing, not full testing, which will not be feasible
12:39:20 <McCool> topic: requirements
12:39:36 <McCool> ml: had a presentation Dec 16
12:39:41 <mlagally_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156 https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/main/contributions/2021-12-16-WoT-Profiles-discussion%2Brequirements%2BOOTBI.pdf
12:40:29 <McCool> ml: see also issue #156
12:40:35 <McCool> ... profile requirements
12:42:13 <McCool> mm: still think o-of-the-box-interop is primary requirement, the rest are supporting
12:42:20 <McCool> ml: let's defer that discussion
12:43:10 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156 wot-usecases PR 156 - Insert digital-twin-use-case.md and use-case-opc-ua-binding.md into index.html|
12:44:01 <McCool> ml: disagreement about some requirements, e.g. human readability
12:44:09 <McCool> mm: I also disagree that this should be a requirement
12:44:22 <McCool> ml: let's then create an issue to capture input on that offline
12:45:13 <McCool> sb: also a minus... have discussed this in the past
12:45:52 <McCool> ml: now developer guidance
12:46:09 <McCool> bf: comments on the issue, cristiano and I both said we supported it
12:47:36 <benfrancis> q+
12:47:51 <kaz> q-
12:48:01 <kaz> ack b
12:48:28 <McCool> mm: for "multiple profiles", is a bit confused; one TD supports more than one?
12:48:50 <McCool> bf: no, "composable" profiles is next point
12:49:37 <McCool> mm: my main concern with both multiple and composable are future extensions; for now we should focus on just one
12:50:18 <McCool> sb: current mechanism for TD already allows for selection from a set of profiles
12:50:34 <benfrancis> q+
12:50:42 <McCool> mm: so is a requirement, but already satisfied
12:52:07 <McCool> mm: also composable only makes sense if there are multiple profiles
12:52:44 <McCool> bf: left some feedback on reasons for whether or not we should have multiple profiles
12:53:02 <McCool> ... but this is about the *mechanism* to support more than one, and I agree we should have that
12:53:18 <McCool> s/whether or not/when/
12:54:01 <McCool> ml: regarding composable profiles: let's create an issue to discuss
12:54:33 <benfrancis> q+
12:54:33 <McCool> ml: next, verifiable TDs
12:55:00 <kaz> ack b
12:55:02 <cris_> q+
12:55:21 <McCool> bf: regarding filing issues to discuss, let's make sure we clean up old issues on these
12:56:18 <cris_> ack
12:56:24 <cris_> ack c
12:56:27 <McCool> cr: support validatible requirement
12:56:47 <McCool> ml: yes, on identification; is moot if we can't identify them
12:57:06 <McCool> ... 4m left, will commit on a branch and make a PR for discussion
12:57:47 <McCool> mm: would be nice to link issues from requirement docs so it is easy to find
12:57:59 <McCool> ml: ...
12:58:23 <kaz> q+
12:58:38 <McCool> mm: let's not merge just yet but keep as a PR so we can capture comments
12:58:57 <McCool> ok: PR #179
12:59:10 <McCool> ml: PR #179, leaving open
12:59:16 <kaz> ack k
12:59:59 <McCool> ml: also, there is a label, "requirement clarification" for requirements discussions
13:00:09 <McCool> ... and please, let's close on this as soon as possible
13:00:50 <kaz> (after the discussion, Kaz asks about how to proceed, and Lagally explains his plan based on the "Roadmap")
13:01:13 <McCool> ml: planning horizon at this point just first three points on plan
13:01:20 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:01:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
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