IRC log of wot-profile on 2022-01-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:03:56 [RRSAgent]
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12:03:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-irc
12:03:58 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Profile
12:04:09 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ben_Francis, Michael_Lagally
12:04:10 [benfrancis]
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12:05:17 [Mizushima]
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12:07:04 [kaz]
scribenick: McCool
12:07:18 [kaz]
present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:07:55 [ryuichi]
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12:08:05 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:08:09 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:08:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:08:31 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#WoT_Profile_-_Jan_26th.2C_2022
12:10:03 [kaz]
chair: Lagally
12:10:19 [kaz]
present+ Michael_McCool
12:10:23 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:10:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:11:20 [McCool]
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12:11:24 [McCool]
ml: want to talk about roadmap and timeline [08:07] <McCool> ... and then continue the requirements discussion [08:07] <McCool> ... incl definition of out-of-the-box interoperability [08:09] <McCool> ... would like to use issue tracker to resolve requirements point by point rather than opening general discussion [08:10] <McCool> mm: would like also give a status update on self-description - plan to resolve
12:11:52 [McCool]
topic: minutes
12:12:05 [McCool]
ml: approval of minutes of previous call
12:12:47 [McCool]
mm: changed the irc, so under wot-profile now
12:13:39 [kaz]
i/topic: minutes/topic: Agenda/
12:13:39 [kaz]
i/topic: minutes/ml: want to talk about roadmap and timeline/
12:13:39 [kaz]
i/topic: minutes/... and then continue the requirements discussion/
12:13:39 [kaz]
i/topic: minutes/... incl definition of out-of-the-box interoperability/
12:13:40 [kaz]
i/topic: minutes/... would like to use issue tracker to resolve requirements point by point rather than opening general discussion/
12:13:42 [kaz]
i/topic: minutes/mm: would like also give a status update on self-description - plan to resolve/
12:14:16 [kaz]
s/ml: want to talk about roadmap and timeline [08:07] <McCool> ... and then continue the requirements discussion [08:07] <McCool> ... incl definition of out-of-the-box interoperability [08:09] <McCool> ... would like to use issue tracker to resolve requirements point by point rather than opening general discussion [08:10] <McCool> mm: would like also give a status update on self-description - plan to resolve//
12:15:37 [McCool]
ml: typo fix; timeline and schedule; link to requirements on github (clean up of *'s)
12:15:57 [McCool]
ml: can we approve the minutes?
12:16:08 [McCool]
ml: hearing no objections... approved
12:16:12 [McCool]
topic: roadmap
12:17:15 [McCool]
ml: pull out into powerpoint to edit...
12:17:33 [kaz]
[[
12:17:34 [kaz]
1. clarify requirements
12:17:34 [kaz]
2. profile scope, identify gaps
12:17:34 [kaz]
3. contributions to resolve normative gaps
12:17:34 [kaz]
4. contributions to resolve informative gaps
12:17:34 [kaz]
5. publication of second working draft
12:17:36 [kaz]
6. plugfest/testfest
12:17:38 [kaz]
7. incorporate review feedback from 2nd WD review
12:17:40 [kaz]
8. publication of candidate recommendation
12:17:42 [kaz]
]]
12:17:56 [McCool]
q+
12:19:48 [kaz]
ack m
12:19:53 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:19:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:20:17 [kaz]
present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
12:20:41 [cris_]
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12:20:43 [kaz]
i/topic: Agenda/scribenick: kaz/
12:20:47 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:20:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:21:28 [kaz]
i/approval of mi/scribenick: McCool/
12:21:28 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:21:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:22:40 [McCool]
mm: the schedule really can't be extended further; also, I suggest we make the requirements as narrow as possible
12:23:05 [McCool]
... KISS principle; the simpler the spec is, the easier it will be to get it done (and through wide review....)
12:24:25 [McCool]
ml: edits points on roadmap to add suggest durations
12:26:35 [McCool]
mm: proposed schedule puts finalization of normative gaps around time of first plugfest
12:26:48 [McCool]
... so we could at least do some preliminary testing in that plugfest
12:27:34 [McCool]
ml: so end of March we should have a sync point
12:27:45 [McCool]
... then clean up some informative gaps
12:28:00 [McCool]
... and a second working draft around mid-May
12:31:34 [McCool]
mm: note second test fest should focus on testing and generating an implementation report, which implies we need stable implementations a few weeks prior
12:32:14 [benfrancis]
q+
12:32:47 [McCool]
mm: need to keep things narrow to hit this
12:33:04 [McCool]
bf: given our current velocity is less than one pr per call
12:33:23 [McCool]
... so we would need to have 23 calls to empty the current prs
12:33:39 [McCool]
ml: well, some of these are obsolete and will go away
12:33:45 [kaz]
q?
12:33:47 [kaz]
ack b
12:33:49 [McCool]
... we are doing a second loop
12:33:53 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:33:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
12:34:32 [McCool]
ml: but I hear you, you feel this is not realistic
12:34:51 [McCool]
bf: only realistic if we review and close PRs out of meetings
12:34:55 [McCool]
q+
12:35:06 [kaz]
q+
12:36:03 [McCool]
mm: suggest compromise where we use labels to identify easy cases, i.e. things that are obsolete, things that are not contentious (editorial)
12:36:14 [McCool]
ack m
12:36:44 [McCool]
kaz: should be recall deadline of charter period itself
12:37:03 [McCool]
... and consider how long things should take; can go bottom up
12:37:41 [McCool]
... for example, if need to finalize normalize features, and only have 1mo, then we need to shorten requirements
12:38:57 [McCool]
mm: note that for first plugfest I was only talking about initial testing, not full testing, which will not be feasible
12:39:20 [McCool]
topic: requirements
12:39:36 [McCool]
ml: had a presentation Dec 16
12:39:41 [mlagally_]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156 https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/main/contributions/2021-12-16-WoT-Profiles-discussion%2Brequirements%2BOOTBI.pdf
12:40:29 [McCool]
ml: see also issue #156
12:40:35 [McCool]
... profile requirements
12:42:13 [McCool]
mm: still think o-of-the-box-interop is primary requirement, the rest are supporting
12:42:20 [McCool]
ml: let's defer that discussion
12:43:10 [kaz]
s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156|-">https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/156 wot-usecases PR 156 - Insert digital-twin-use-case.md and use-case-opc-ua-binding.md into index.html|
12:44:01 [McCool]
ml: disagreement about some requirements, e.g. human readability
12:44:09 [McCool]
mm: I also disagree that this should be a requirement
12:44:22 [McCool]
ml: let's then create an issue to capture input on that offline
12:45:13 [McCool]
sb: also a minus... have discussed this in the past
12:45:52 [McCool]
ml: now developer guidance
12:46:09 [McCool]
bf: comments on the issue, cristiano and I both said we supported it
12:47:36 [benfrancis]
q+
12:47:51 [kaz]
q-
12:48:01 [kaz]
ack b
12:48:28 [McCool]
mm: for "multiple profiles", is a bit confused; one TD supports more than one?
12:48:50 [McCool]
bf: no, "composable" profiles is next point
12:49:37 [McCool]
mm: my main concern with both multiple and composable are future extensions; for now we should focus on just one
12:50:18 [McCool]
sb: current mechanism for TD already allows for selection from a set of profiles
12:50:34 [benfrancis]
q+
12:50:42 [McCool]
mm: so is a requirement, but already satisfied
12:52:07 [McCool]
mm: also composable only makes sense if there are multiple profiles
12:52:44 [McCool]
bf: left some feedback on reasons for whether or not we should have multiple profiles
12:53:02 [McCool]
... but this is about the *mechanism* to support more than one, and I agree we should have that
12:53:18 [McCool]
s/whether or not/when/
12:54:01 [McCool]
ml: regarding composable profiles: let's create an issue to discuss
12:54:33 [benfrancis]
q+
12:54:33 [McCool]
ml: next, verifiable TDs
12:55:00 [kaz]
ack b
12:55:02 [cris_]
q+
12:55:21 [McCool]
bf: regarding filing issues to discuss, let's make sure we clean up old issues on these
12:56:18 [cris_]
ack
12:56:24 [cris_]
ack c
12:56:27 [McCool]
cr: support validatible requirement
12:56:47 [McCool]
ml: yes, on identification; is moot if we can't identify them
12:57:06 [McCool]
... 4m left, will commit on a branch and make a PR for discussion
12:57:47 [McCool]
mm: would be nice to link issues from requirement docs so it is easy to find
12:57:59 [McCool]
ml: ...
12:58:23 [kaz]
q+
12:58:38 [McCool]
mm: let's not merge just yet but keep as a PR so we can capture comments
12:58:57 [McCool]
ok: PR #179
12:59:10 [McCool]
ml: PR #179, leaving open
12:59:16 [kaz]
ack k
12:59:59 [McCool]
ml: also, there is a label, "requirement clarification" for requirements discussions
13:00:09 [McCool]
... and please, let's close on this as soon as possible
13:00:50 [kaz]
(after the discussion, Kaz asks about how to proceed, and Lagally explains his plan based on the "Roadmap")
13:01:13 [McCool]
ml: planning horizon at this point just first three points on plan
13:01:20 [kaz]
[adjourned]
13:01:25 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:01:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/26-wot-profile-minutes.html kaz
13:29:05 [Mizushima]
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15:02:36 [Zakim]
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