10:59:19 RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch 10:59:19 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-irc 11:00:11 meeting: WoT Architecture 11:00:22 mlagally____ has joined #wot-arch 11:00:23 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Lagally, Michael_McCool 11:00:28 chair: Lagally 11:02:57 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 11:03:06 ktoumura has joined #wot-arch 11:06:43 scribenick: kaz 11:07:15 topic: Minutes 11:07:26 -> https://www.w3.org/2022/01/13-wot-arch-minutes.html Jan-13 11:07:32 ml: any objections? 11:07:38 Mizushima has joined #wot-arch 11:07:39 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 11:07:46 (no objections; approved) 11:08:07 topic: Publication timeline 11:08:20 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/charters/wg-2021-extension-plan.md extension plan 11:09:05 ryuichi has joined #wot-arch 11:09:11 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1010 wot repo PR 1010 - proposed updates to WG extension schedule 11:10:03 mm: Start to get wide review including TAG, Accessibilty, Privacy, Security, and Internationalization to review TD 1.1 draft by Jan 25, 2022 (note: might take 6 months) 11:11:00 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 11:11:03 q+ 11:11:34 mm: instanciation to be clarified 11:12:28 ack k 11:12:35 kaz: what about point 0? 11:12:44 [[ 11:12:45 0. Clarify which normative sections should be included or should be improved in TD 1.1, Profile, Arch 1.1, and Discovery by end-Nov 2021 11:12:46 ]] 11:12:58 kaz: need to wrap up the check results 11:13:16 ml: let's discus it later based on Toumura-san's index 11:14:30 mm: ok with changing the deadline until end-Jan 2022 11:14:49 ml: (adds comment for that within the PR 1010) 11:16:13 ... all the Eidtors of the REC trac docs should confirm their documents' structure/normative sections have been properly reviewed. 11:16:39 ... maybe by Feb-4? 11:16:48 mm: Friday is good for deadline 11:17:51 ml: (adds a comment on the deadline of point 4) 11:18:20 ... suggest Friday, Feb-4 to have 2 meetings before we step forward 11:18:56 (discussion on point 6. Testfest) 11:19:20 mm: mid-March focus on TD and Discovery 11:19:39 ... one Thing with one TD 11:20:29 ... should figure out intermediate use cases as well 11:20:45 ml: Profile needs a simple self description mechanism 11:21:10 ... without huge implementation demands 11:22:12 s/6. Testfest/5. Discovery by Jan 31/ 11:22:36 s/mm: mid-March focus on TD and Discovery// 11:22:43 s/... one Thing/mm: one Thing/ 11:22:55 (discussion on point 6. Testfest) 11:23:34 ml: focus on telemetry use cases 11:23:45 mm: long polling and webhooks 11:23:48 ... also websockets 11:24:07 ... webhooks handles data on the cloud 11:24:34 ... websockets might be for the future version 11:25:10 ... need to be sure URLs are locked down 11:25:38 ml: most of our plugfests have been assuming local networks 11:25:45 mm: yeah 11:26:09 ... in reality, there is no actual security within home networks 11:26:30 ... technically, we can distribute keys 11:26:44 ... but we don't have the mechanism for onboarding 11:27:26 ml: scenarios for networks beyond local ones 11:28:00 s/local/trusted/ 11:28:39 ml: how to handle the expected use cases? 11:29:11 mm: login based on HTTPS and use the network established is fine 11:29:21 ml: suggested scenarios 11:29:26 ... 1. telemetry 11:29:32 ... 2. digital twins 11:29:42 ... 3. beyond the trusted local network 11:30:24 s/telemetry/telemetry: TD for a could service, TD for an event listener Thing (Consumer)/ 11:30:33 ... 4. industrial scenarios 11:30:49 ... 5. battery powered device (not connected to network always) 11:31:09 ... btw, security considerations for discovery? 11:31:13 mm: mutual authentication? 11:32:02 ml: normative feature freeze for TD and Architecture by Feb.4? 11:32:09 mm: still need to work on that 11:33:41 ml: (creates a new Issue for wot-discovery on Profile) 11:34:07 ... Profile needs a simple self-descriptive mechanism without huge implementation demands 11:34:11 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 11:34:38 i/creates/subtopic: Discovery/ 11:35:18 ... does a simple Thing have to implement a directory service / implement a discovery API? 11:35:39 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/263 wot-discovery issue 263 - Profile needs a simple self descriptive mechanism without huge implementation demands 11:35:56 rrsagent, make log public 11:36:40 ml: would add another note on Testfest 11:37:07 ... Profile validation? 11:37:32 mm: not a big deal one implementation misses some of the Profile features 11:37:51 ml: (adds a question) 11:37:51 q+ 11:38:13 ... partial Profile implementations (for Testfest mid-March) 11:38:15 ack s 11:38:25 sk: Testfest should concentrate on the new features 11:38:53 ... all the new features should be implemented by more than one implementation for all the normative specs 11:39:19 ... checking the use cases itself is not for the "Testfest" 11:39:41 ml: agree we should not create new things 11:40:09 q+ 11:40:49 ... it's that we should consideration these scenarios as the basis of the Testfest setting 11:41:09 mm: would say we need to look into the detail 11:41:13 ... what to observe 11:41:43 ... it's not good timing to add features 11:41:47 q? 11:42:30 ... we should be very careful 11:44:20 kaz: my understanding is these suggestions are basis for the expected "Test scenarios" 11:44:36 ... for manual tests, we need concrete Test scenarios 11:45:57 ml: (shows the section 6. System Topologies (Horizontals)) 11:46:16 -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#sec-common-deployment-patterns WoT Architecture - 6. System Topologies (Horizontals) 11:47:29 ml: we've been assuming local networks basically 11:47:49 sk: remember Panasonic (and Fujitsu) provided remote network as well 11:48:09 ... but WoT standardization doesn't need to handle network setting itself 11:48:13 q? 11:48:14 ack k 11:48:19 q+ 11:53:44 ack k 11:53:45 q+ 11:54:24 (discussion on the expectation for the Testing for Architecture) 11:54:36 q? 11:59:31 ml: would like to revisit use cases and see the gaps 11:59:47 kaz: would suggest two things 12:00:22 I need to go to next meeting. 12:01:10 ... 1. scope and scenarios of the Testfest to be defined before the actual Testfest during the preparation, and concrete scenario also to be defined for manual tests 12:02:01 ... 2. so should move the "Suggest to consider the following scenarios" comments from "6. Testfest" itself to the preparation phase (=earlier than point 6) 12:03:11 ml: to tell the truth, don't really see the difference between Plugfest and Testfest, both of them check the connectivity based on participants' implementations 12:03:26 topic: document consistency 12:03:58 ml: would like to confirm the document consistency based on Toumura-san's issue 646 12:04:49 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/646 Issue 646 - [Index] Section structure, assertions, and issues 12:05:10 mm: should send around an email to encourage people to review the issue 12:05:15 [adjourned] 12:06:49 i/topic: document consistency/(Plugfest's purpose is gathering implementations and see the connectivity, while Testfest's purpose is checking the implementability of each feature by more than one implementation)/ 12:07:24 s/ml: to tell the truth, don't really see the difference between Plugfest and Testfest, both of them check the connectivity based on participants' implementations/(discussion on expectations for Plugfest and Testfest)/ 12:07:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:07:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 12:21:04 i/Start to get wide review including/subtopic: point 2 - wide review/ 12:21:24 i/what about point 0/subtopic: point 0 - document consistency/ 12:22:23 s/adds a comment on the deadline of point 4)/subtopic: point 4 - normative feature freeze for TD and Arch/ 12:22:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:22:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 12:23:04 i/(discussion on point 5. Discovery by Jan 31)/subtopic: point 5 - normative feature freeze for Discovery/ 12:23:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:23:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 12:24:07 s|subtopic: point 4 - normative feature freeze for TD and Arch|adds a comment on the deadline of point 4)| 12:24:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:24:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 12:24:21 i/(adds a comment on the deadline of point 4)/subtopic: point 4 - normative feature freeze for TD and Arch/ 12:24:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:24:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 12:25:04 i|(discussion on point 6. Testfest)|subtopic: point 6 - Testfest| 12:25:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:25:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 14:00:34 Zakim has left #wot-arch 15:18:07 zkis has joined #wot-arch 15:27:47 zkis_ has joined #wot-arch