IRC log of tt on 2022-01-20

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
16:05:18 [nigel]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/208
16:05:32 [nigel]
Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2021/12/09-tt-minutes.html
16:05:34 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
16:05:36 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel
16:05:41 [nigel]
Present: Atsushi, Pierre, Nigel
16:05:51 [nigel]
Regrets: Andreas, Gary
16:06:32 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
16:06:50 [nigel]
Nigel: Today we have IMSC HRM and Rechartering
16:07:02 [nigel]
.. Any other business or points to cover?
16:07:13 [nigel]
[group] No other business
16:07:18 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC HRM
16:07:52 [nigel]
Subtopic: Status on HR and WR
16:08:19 [nigel]
Nigel: I've been having trouble locating the draft text Pierre sent me
16:08:38 [nigel]
Pierre: I sent it and you replied, I'll send it again. (was Dec 3)
16:08:45 [nigel]
Nigel: Apologies for that.
16:09:13 [nigel]
.. That's for requesting WR.
16:09:42 [nigel]
.. Are we ready to send it yet? Need to check for open issues/pull requests.
16:10:13 [nigel]
.. I will make a few edits as proposed and then check back in.
16:10:43 [nigel]
.. We have 2 open pull requests and I think they're both editorial.
16:10:53 [nigel]
Pierre: Yes, we could merge them. They were opened by one of the reviewers
16:11:05 [nigel]
.. so ideally they'd approve it. I requested review for both of them.
16:11:12 [nigel]
Nigel: I was thinking that too.
16:11:20 [nigel]
Pierre: We can just wait the 2 weeks and then merge.
16:12:16 [nigel]
.. I'm more concerned about some of the issues, like #27, where I really need to hear back from Sam Weiler.
16:12:38 [nigel]
.. I don't know how to get their attention.
16:13:12 [nigel]
Nigel: Wonder if he's W3 staff.
16:13:32 [nigel]
Pierre: I'm leery of doing a ton of work without confirmation that it will resolve the issue.
16:13:59 [nigel]
Nigel: Agreed.
16:14:04 [nigel]
Pierre: Who is pes10k?
16:14:11 [nigel]
Nigel: I think we've met him before, not sure.
16:14:29 [nigel]
Pierre: I've responded to them all, and suggest that we wait a couple of weeks for a response.
16:14:33 [atsushi]
Samuel Weiler is in PING
16:14:35 [nigel]
.. In the meantime we can focus on the liaison.
16:15:26 [atsushi]
pes10k is Peter Snyder (Brave Software) in PING
16:15:38 [nigel]
Nigel: Thank you for that Atsushi.
16:16:15 [nigel]
Atsushi: If the privacy group thinks a change is needed to the spec they will add a label.
16:16:23 [nigel]
.. If they have not added it then it is just a suggestion.
16:16:29 [nigel]
Nigel: Thanks for that.
16:16:50 [nigel]
.. The question I have is if we should resolve all those issues before sending the Wide Review request,
16:17:05 [nigel]
.. and since they generally are about making the document easier to understand, I think it would be a good idea.
16:17:53 [nigel]
.. Looking at the issues, 3 of them have privacy-needs-resolution labels,
16:18:04 [nigel]
.. so I'd hope that the issue raisers would be engaged with those issues.
16:18:41 [nigel]
.. Have we got enough of an action plan in place now?
16:18:45 [nigel]
Pierre: Yep!
16:18:49 [nigel]
Nigel: Alright.
16:19:07 [nigel]
Subtopic: Issues (including HR issues)
16:19:12 [nigel]
Nigel: Any particular issues for discussion?
16:19:27 [nigel]
Pierre: Not really, we're just waiting for the responses.
16:19:38 [nigel]
.. I'm more focused on getting the WR request out.
16:19:53 [nigel]
.. If anyone is going to propose changes to the thresholds of NBG, say, we need to know that
16:20:02 [nigel]
.. as soon as possible because the lead time to fix will be longer.
16:20:07 [nigel]
.. My suggestion is to get the requests out.
16:20:20 [nigel]
Nigel: Do you have reason to expect a response like that?
16:20:45 [nigel]
Pierre: Er, if you look at issue #5, span elements are included in NBG(R_i),
16:21:02 [nigel]
.. it turns out that there is a practice in some countries of separating successive subtitles
16:21:07 [nigel]
.. by one or two blank frames.
16:21:23 [nigel]
.. Apparently not putting any space is bad, and too much is worse, so that puts a particular
16:21:37 [nigel]
.. strain on the HRM because it requires a lot of background redraws, especially if you
16:21:46 [nigel]
.. end up using background on spans, it really taxes the HRM.
16:22:02 [nigel]
.. So issue 5 has one solution, to relax the cost of painting background behind spans,
16:22:18 [nigel]
.. but of course another approach which you hinted at, Nigel, is to increase the background
16:22:27 [nigel]
.. painting rates, and you're not the only one to have thought about this.
16:22:39 [nigel]
.. We should not act without data, but some organisations may have data that would
16:22:44 [nigel]
.. help us decide what to do.
16:22:46 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes
16:23:00 [nigel]
Pierre: The conclusion of the current thread is we should not do anything until we have concrete data.
16:23:13 [nigel]
Nigel: Makes sense.
16:23:32 [nigel]
Pierre: We don't need to do anything today other than work on this liaison.
16:23:58 [nigel]
Topic: Rechartering status update
16:24:14 [nigel]
Nigel: Current charter has been extended to 31st March 2022.
16:24:34 [nigel]
-> https://www.w3.org/2020/12/timed-text-wg-charter.html Updated Charter.
16:24:45 [nigel]
Atsushi: We got 3 months extension - I think that was sent to Chair's mailing list, no?
16:24:52 [nigel]
Nigel: I didn't notice it, it may have done.
16:24:58 [nigel]
.. (we should assume it did)
16:25:13 [nigel]
.. I added this to the agenda for information.
16:25:23 [atsushi]
> Timed Text Working Group Charter extended until 31 March 2022
16:26:12 [nigel]
Nigel: I think aside from updating the Chair details (organisation), I think we've done everything.
16:26:26 [nigel]
.. Atsushi, any other actions needed?
16:26:47 [nigel]
Atsushi: I am awaiting reply from W3M. plh says he is waiting for a reply from you Nigel.
16:27:00 [nigel]
Nigel: [checks]
16:27:36 [nigel]
.. Philippe is probably waiting for Gary to complete the IE form, I don't think he's waiting for anything from me.
16:27:59 [nigel]
.. I will ping him and ask if he needs anything from me.
16:28:30 [nigel]
Atsushi: I think I sent a short summary to you, end of last year.
16:28:43 [nigel]
.. There is some concern about WebVTT status - CR is from 2019 and we don't list
16:29:01 [nigel]
.. it as an inflight document, and just point to our wiki that was last updated more than half a year ago.
16:29:04 [nigel]
.. I think that is the main item.
16:29:23 [nigel]
Nigel: I think it's fair to be concerned about those.
16:29:42 [nigel]
.. We should be able to update the deliverables wiki page, if only to add the IMSC-HRM document.
16:30:03 [nigel]
Atsushi: I think it is already listed in the Charter.
16:30:11 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes but is it in the deliverables wiki page?
16:31:18 [nigel]
.. On WebVTT I have a lot of sympathy on both sides - I think there has been a threat
16:31:56 [nigel]
.. to drop it for at least 2 charter cycles so it's up to W3M to decide what to do.
16:32:16 [nigel]
Atsushi: We could publish a CRD to show activity.
16:32:24 [nigel]
Nigel: But there hasn't been any activity?
16:32:40 [nigel]
.. We could do that, but I don't think it addresses the problem.
16:32:52 [nigel]
Pierre: Could you summarise the issue or concern?
16:33:17 [nigel]
Atsushi: The main concern is that it looks like activity on WebVTT has been suspended, from outside.
16:33:42 [nigel]
.. There are a bunch of issues that haven't had updates and the latest version is the 2019 edition.
16:33:56 [nigel]
.. We need to show that we are willing to pursue WebVTT to get it to Recommendation.
16:34:25 [nigel]
Pierre: Or we could not, publish a WG Note.
16:34:48 [nigel]
Nigel: I think there's a specific "not maintained Rec" status rather than Note, but that's a detail.
16:35:02 [nigel]
Pierre: My suggestion is to explore that, freeze it, and when folk decide to work on it again then they can.
16:35:17 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay, I think it is not fair to have this discussion without Gary.
16:35:34 [nigel]
Pierre: We should initiate the conversation, by putting a proposal forward. It may not be to everyone's preference.
16:36:07 [nigel]
.. What about that?
16:36:11 [nigel]
Nigel: We could do that.
16:36:23 [nigel]
Pierre: THe two extremes don't make sense - we can't just drop it from the Charter,
16:36:41 [nigel]
.. and having it sitting there without progress is not palatable, which is a good observation.
16:36:46 [nigel]
s/THe/The
16:37:27 [nigel]
-> https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#abandon-draft Abandoning an Unfinished Recommendation
16:37:31 [nigel]
Pierre: I hate that temr
16:37:36 [nigel]
Nigel: It sounds too final
16:37:44 [nigel]
Pierre: Anyway we should just put that on the table.
16:38:13 [nigel]
.. It's called "Discontinued Draft".
16:38:28 [nigel]
Nigel: Yes that's right.
16:38:32 [nigel]
Pierre: Let's just do it.
16:39:15 [nigel]
Nigel: I want to know W3M's view as well as Gary's. Let me start a private email thread.
16:39:26 [nigel]
Atsushi: Again, it should be fine if we can show we are working on WebVTT.
16:39:52 [nigel]
.. It may be possible to show our activity or interest by creating a new CRD and pushing to CR.
16:40:04 [nigel]
.. We can also state that we have some PRs merged in the last year.
16:40:20 [nigel]
.. I don't think dropping it from our next Charter is a good idea.
16:41:20 [nigel]
Nigel: I can see that there have been merged PRs, for example for unbounded TextTrackCue end time.
16:41:29 [nigel]
.. So yes, we should get those published.
16:42:14 [nigel]
.. Something has to happen one way or the other. I agree with the external view that it looks like nothing is happening.
16:42:50 [nigel]
.. In summary, we're waiting for W3M feedback and the change or organisation for Gary.
16:43:07 [nigel]
.. Anything else to be said?
16:43:11 [nigel]
Topic: Meeting close
16:43:32 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay, thanks, next meeting in 2 weeks, perhaps with something substantive to discuss.
16:44:54 [nigel]
.. [adjourns meeting]
16:44:59 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:44:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
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s/temr/term
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:14:42 [nigel]
scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:14:47 [nigel]
zakim, end meeting
17:14:47 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Atsushi, Pierre, Nigel
17:14:48 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html Zakim
17:14:52 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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Zakim has left #tt
17:15:10 [nigel]
rrsagent, excuse us
17:15:10 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items