15:59:34 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:59:34 logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-irc 15:59:37 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:59:39 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 16:05:18 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/208 16:05:32 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2021/12/09-tt-minutes.html 16:05:34 scribe: nigel 16:05:36 Chair: Nigel 16:05:41 Present: Atsushi, Pierre, Nigel 16:05:51 Regrets: Andreas, Gary 16:06:32 Topic: This meeting 16:06:50 Nigel: Today we have IMSC HRM and Rechartering 16:07:02 .. Any other business or points to cover? 16:07:13 [group] No other business 16:07:18 Topic: IMSC HRM 16:07:52 Subtopic: Status on HR and WR 16:08:19 Nigel: I've been having trouble locating the draft text Pierre sent me 16:08:38 Pierre: I sent it and you replied, I'll send it again. (was Dec 3) 16:08:45 Nigel: Apologies for that. 16:09:13 .. That's for requesting WR. 16:09:42 .. Are we ready to send it yet? Need to check for open issues/pull requests. 16:10:13 .. I will make a few edits as proposed and then check back in. 16:10:43 .. We have 2 open pull requests and I think they're both editorial. 16:10:53 Pierre: Yes, we could merge them. They were opened by one of the reviewers 16:11:05 .. so ideally they'd approve it. I requested review for both of them. 16:11:12 Nigel: I was thinking that too. 16:11:20 Pierre: We can just wait the 2 weeks and then merge. 16:12:16 .. I'm more concerned about some of the issues, like #27, where I really need to hear back from Sam Weiler. 16:12:38 .. I don't know how to get their attention. 16:13:12 Nigel: Wonder if he's W3 staff. 16:13:32 Pierre: I'm leery of doing a ton of work without confirmation that it will resolve the issue. 16:13:59 Nigel: Agreed. 16:14:04 Pierre: Who is pes10k? 16:14:11 Nigel: I think we've met him before, not sure. 16:14:29 Pierre: I've responded to them all, and suggest that we wait a couple of weeks for a response. 16:14:33 Samuel Weiler is in PING 16:14:35 .. In the meantime we can focus on the liaison. 16:15:26 pes10k is Peter Snyder (Brave Software) in PING 16:15:38 Nigel: Thank you for that Atsushi. 16:16:15 Atsushi: If the privacy group thinks a change is needed to the spec they will add a label. 16:16:23 .. If they have not added it then it is just a suggestion. 16:16:29 Nigel: Thanks for that. 16:16:50 .. The question I have is if we should resolve all those issues before sending the Wide Review request, 16:17:05 .. and since they generally are about making the document easier to understand, I think it would be a good idea. 16:17:53 .. Looking at the issues, 3 of them have privacy-needs-resolution labels, 16:18:04 .. so I'd hope that the issue raisers would be engaged with those issues. 16:18:41 .. Have we got enough of an action plan in place now? 16:18:45 Pierre: Yep! 16:18:49 Nigel: Alright. 16:19:07 Subtopic: Issues (including HR issues) 16:19:12 Nigel: Any particular issues for discussion? 16:19:27 Pierre: Not really, we're just waiting for the responses. 16:19:38 .. I'm more focused on getting the WR request out. 16:19:53 .. If anyone is going to propose changes to the thresholds of NBG, say, we need to know that 16:20:02 .. as soon as possible because the lead time to fix will be longer. 16:20:07 .. My suggestion is to get the requests out. 16:20:20 Nigel: Do you have reason to expect a response like that? 16:20:45 Pierre: Er, if you look at issue #5, span elements are included in NBG(R_i), 16:21:02 .. it turns out that there is a practice in some countries of separating successive subtitles 16:21:07 .. by one or two blank frames. 16:21:23 .. Apparently not putting any space is bad, and too much is worse, so that puts a particular 16:21:37 .. strain on the HRM because it requires a lot of background redraws, especially if you 16:21:46 .. end up using background on spans, it really taxes the HRM. 16:22:02 .. So issue 5 has one solution, to relax the cost of painting background behind spans, 16:22:18 .. but of course another approach which you hinted at, Nigel, is to increase the background 16:22:27 .. painting rates, and you're not the only one to have thought about this. 16:22:39 .. We should not act without data, but some organisations may have data that would 16:22:44 .. help us decide what to do. 16:22:46 Nigel: Yes 16:23:00 Pierre: The conclusion of the current thread is we should not do anything until we have concrete data. 16:23:13 Nigel: Makes sense. 16:23:32 Pierre: We don't need to do anything today other than work on this liaison. 16:23:58 Topic: Rechartering status update 16:24:14 Nigel: Current charter has been extended to 31st March 2022. 16:24:34 -> https://www.w3.org/2020/12/timed-text-wg-charter.html Updated Charter. 16:24:45 Atsushi: We got 3 months extension - I think that was sent to Chair's mailing list, no? 16:24:52 Nigel: I didn't notice it, it may have done. 16:24:58 .. (we should assume it did) 16:25:13 .. I added this to the agenda for information. 16:25:23 > Timed Text Working Group Charter extended until 31 March 2022 16:26:12 Nigel: I think aside from updating the Chair details (organisation), I think we've done everything. 16:26:26 .. Atsushi, any other actions needed? 16:26:47 Atsushi: I am awaiting reply from W3M. plh says he is waiting for a reply from you Nigel. 16:27:00 Nigel: [checks] 16:27:36 .. Philippe is probably waiting for Gary to complete the IE form, I don't think he's waiting for anything from me. 16:27:59 .. I will ping him and ask if he needs anything from me. 16:28:30 Atsushi: I think I sent a short summary to you, end of last year. 16:28:43 .. There is some concern about WebVTT status - CR is from 2019 and we don't list 16:29:01 .. it as an inflight document, and just point to our wiki that was last updated more than half a year ago. 16:29:04 .. I think that is the main item. 16:29:23 Nigel: I think it's fair to be concerned about those. 16:29:42 .. We should be able to update the deliverables wiki page, if only to add the IMSC-HRM document. 16:30:03 Atsushi: I think it is already listed in the Charter. 16:30:11 Nigel: Yes but is it in the deliverables wiki page? 16:31:18 .. On WebVTT I have a lot of sympathy on both sides - I think there has been a threat 16:31:56 .. to drop it for at least 2 charter cycles so it's up to W3M to decide what to do. 16:32:16 Atsushi: We could publish a CRD to show activity. 16:32:24 Nigel: But there hasn't been any activity? 16:32:40 .. We could do that, but I don't think it addresses the problem. 16:32:52 Pierre: Could you summarise the issue or concern? 16:33:17 Atsushi: The main concern is that it looks like activity on WebVTT has been suspended, from outside. 16:33:42 .. There are a bunch of issues that haven't had updates and the latest version is the 2019 edition. 16:33:56 .. We need to show that we are willing to pursue WebVTT to get it to Recommendation. 16:34:25 Pierre: Or we could not, publish a WG Note. 16:34:48 Nigel: I think there's a specific "not maintained Rec" status rather than Note, but that's a detail. 16:35:02 Pierre: My suggestion is to explore that, freeze it, and when folk decide to work on it again then they can. 16:35:17 Nigel: Okay, I think it is not fair to have this discussion without Gary. 16:35:34 Pierre: We should initiate the conversation, by putting a proposal forward. It may not be to everyone's preference. 16:36:07 .. What about that? 16:36:11 Nigel: We could do that. 16:36:23 Pierre: THe two extremes don't make sense - we can't just drop it from the Charter, 16:36:41 .. and having it sitting there without progress is not palatable, which is a good observation. 16:36:46 s/THe/The 16:37:27 -> https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#abandon-draft Abandoning an Unfinished Recommendation 16:37:31 Pierre: I hate that temr 16:37:36 Nigel: It sounds too final 16:37:44 Pierre: Anyway we should just put that on the table. 16:38:13 .. It's called "Discontinued Draft". 16:38:28 Nigel: Yes that's right. 16:38:32 Pierre: Let's just do it. 16:39:15 Nigel: I want to know W3M's view as well as Gary's. Let me start a private email thread. 16:39:26 Atsushi: Again, it should be fine if we can show we are working on WebVTT. 16:39:52 .. It may be possible to show our activity or interest by creating a new CRD and pushing to CR. 16:40:04 .. We can also state that we have some PRs merged in the last year. 16:40:20 .. I don't think dropping it from our next Charter is a good idea. 16:41:20 Nigel: I can see that there have been merged PRs, for example for unbounded TextTrackCue end time. 16:41:29 .. So yes, we should get those published. 16:42:14 .. Something has to happen one way or the other. I agree with the external view that it looks like nothing is happening. 16:42:50 .. In summary, we're waiting for W3M feedback and the change or organisation for Gary. 16:43:07 .. Anything else to be said? 16:43:11 Topic: Meeting close 16:43:32 Nigel: Okay, thanks, next meeting in 2 weeks, perhaps with something substantive to discuss. 16:44:54 .. [adjourns meeting] 16:44:59 rrsagent, make minutes 16:44:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:56:13 nigel has joined #tt 16:58:28 nigel_ has joined #tt 17:01:36 s/temr/term 17:02:12 rrsagent, make minutes 17:02:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:14:42 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:14:47 zakim, end meeting 17:14:47 As of this point the attendees have been Atsushi, Pierre, Nigel 17:14:48 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:14:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html Zakim 17:14:52 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 17:14:57 Zakim has left #tt 17:15:10 rrsagent, excuse us 17:15:10 I see no action items