IRC log of i18n on 2022-01-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:39:38 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
- 14:39:38 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-irc
- 14:39:48 [addison]
- trackbot, prepare teleconference
- 14:39:51 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:39:54 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
- 14:39:54 [trackbot]
- Date: 20 January 2022
- 14:39:57 [agendabot]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/baf262b7-7551-4c04-96a0-662d85c35505/20220120T150000
- 14:39:57 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 14:39:57 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Agenda Review
- 14:39:57 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Action Items
- 14:39:59 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Info Share
- 14:40:01 [agendabot]
- agenda+ RADAR Review
- 14:40:03 [agendabot]
- agenda+ String-Meta
- 14:40:06 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Radar Assignments
- 14:40:08 [agendabot]
- agenda+ AOB?
- 14:40:41 [addison]
- agenda+ commit updates to specdev
- 14:40:51 [addison]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 14:40:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 14:53:49 [addison]
- present+
- 15:01:17 [nordzilla]
- nordzilla has joined #i18n
- 15:01:26 [addison]
- present+ Richard, Eemeli Aro, Atsushi, Erik Nordin
- 15:01:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 15:02:17 [addison]
- present+ Bert
- 15:02:41 [Bert]
- scribe: Bert
- 15:04:50 [Bert]
- addison: Our W3C calendar needs editing. Seems difficult to just extend the dates... I may have to send feature requests. :-)
- 15:05:05 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 15:05:05 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:05:06 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:05:35 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 15:05:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:05:40 [eemeli]
- eemeli has joined #i18n
- 15:05:45 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
- 15:06:17 [Bert]
- action-1094?
- 15:06:18 [trackbot]
- action-1094 -- Addison Phillips to Start conversation with ecma-402 et al about webidl work -- due 2021-11-11 -- OPEN
- 15:06:18 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1094
- 15:06:39 [Bert]
- addison: Will get explainer done this week.
- 15:06:47 [Bert]
- action-1097?
- 15:06:47 [trackbot]
- action-1097 -- Addison Phillips to Codify epub's character restrictions as guidance for specdev -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
- 15:06:47 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1097
- 15:06:53 [addison]
- close action-1097
- 15:06:53 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1097.
- 15:06:55 [Bert]
- addison: On agenda for later.
- 15:07:00 [Bert]
- action-1098?
- 15:07:00 [trackbot]
- action-1098 -- Richard Ishida to Review lang-bidi-use-cases for clarity of use cases of specific override -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
- 15:07:00 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1098
- 15:07:10 [David]
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- 15:07:25 [Bert]
- r12a: Not done, will look over next week.
- 15:07:32 [Bert]
- action-1100?
- 15:07:32 [trackbot]
- action-1100 -- Addison Phillips to Move and close unassigned with support from r12a -- due 2021-11-25 -- OPEN
- 15:07:32 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1100
- 15:07:56 [David]
- zakim present+
- 15:08:08 [David]
- present+
- 15:08:18 [Bert]
- addison: Only thing left seems to close items under "awaiting comment resoluttion"
- 15:08:26 [addison]
- close action-1100
- 15:08:26 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1100.
- 15:08:43 [Bert]
- ... Maybe need actions for shepherds to close their own itmes,
- 15:08:50 [addison]
- action: addison: remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions
- 15:08:50 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1109 - Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-01-27].
- 15:08:56 [Bert]
- s/itmes/items./
- 15:09:00 [Bert]
- action-1103?
- 15:09:00 [trackbot]
- action-1103 -- Addison Phillips to File issue with tag to discuss fate of lang/dir metadata and prepare explainer -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN
- 15:09:01 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1103
- 15:09:08 [Bert]
- action-1104?
- 15:09:08 [trackbot]
- action-1104 -- Addison Phillips to Respond to dom's thread after xfq forwards note -- due 2021-12-09 -- OPEN
- 15:09:08 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1104
- 15:09:18 [Bert]
- addison: Trying to do that today.
- 15:09:22 [Bert]
- action-1108?
- 15:09:22 [trackbot]
- action-1108 -- Addison Phillips to Create naur review item -- due 2022-01-20 -- OPEN
- 15:09:22 [trackbot]
- https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1108
- 15:09:29 [addison]
- close action-1108
- 15:09:30 [trackbot]
- Closed action-1108.
- 15:09:40 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 15:09:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:10:52 [Bert]
- Eemeli introduces himself.
- 15:12:15 [Bert]
- Expects work on DOM localization and other things. Based in Finland.
- 15:13:23 [Bert]
- r12a: I wanted to ask about DOM localization?
- 15:13:47 [Bert]
- eemeli: Abstraction we'd like to push about declarative syntaxes.
- 15:14:19 [Bert]
- ... Attributes that can pull resources.
- 15:14:38 [Bert]
- ... We have something like that already at Mozilla, which we'd like to make a standard.
- 15:14:50 [Bert]
- ... And make it more accessible and more standard.
- 15:15:05 [Bert]
- ... Make it easier and declarative.
- 15:15:26 [Bert]
- r12a: Aware of ITS? Not exactly the same, but maybe interesting.
- 15:15:42 [Bert]
- eemeli: Not quite the same, indeed.
- 15:15:55 [JcK]
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- 15:16:29 [Bert]
- addison: It can help identify where the localizable parts are. You talk more about where to get the localized content itself from.
- 15:16:34 [JcK]
- present+ JcK
- 15:17:16 [Bert]
- r12a: Localization needs additional metadata for translator or processor and that is what ITS mostly looks at.
- 15:17:49 [Bert]
- eemeli: That is likely to be wrapped into Unicode message format we're working on.
- 15:19:12 [Bert]
- r12a: ITS took wings with xliff. Your DOM localization may bring in more things.
- 15:19:46 [Bert]
- ... You might want to have a look at it.
- 15:19:48 [Bert]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/its/
- 15:20:01 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 15:20:01 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:20:14 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
- 15:20:46 [r12a]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/NOTE-its2req-20170302/
- 15:21:37 [Bert]
- addison: 2 incoming items. 1st is NAUR, due March (arbitrarily)
- 15:22:07 [Bert]
- Bert: I can do that one.
- 15:22:36 [Bert]
- addison: 2nd is CSS conditional, also due in March
- 15:22:50 [Bert]
- atsushi: I'm interested.
- 15:23:27 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:23:54 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 8
- 15:23:54 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- commit updates to specdev -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:24:09 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55
- 15:24:14 [r12a]
- https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html
- 15:25:05 [Bert]
- addison: Discovered we also had a related old action, which I combined with this.
- 15:25:51 [Bert]
- r12a: To recap for new participants: This doc is a collection of dos and donts for spec writers.
- 15:26:48 [Bert]
- addison: I edited section 5.6
- 15:27:33 [Bert]
- r12a: Change title to "Working with file and path names"? Leaves scope for more.
- 15:27:39 [Bert]
- addison: I can do that.
- 15:28:28 [Bert]
- r12a: It doesn't say why file names should be restricted to 255 bytes.
- 15:28:50 [Bert]
- addison: Comes from DOS. I can add that.
- 15:29:12 [Bert]
- ... Much comes from EPUB, with minor rewording.
- 15:29:21 [Bert]
- ... But I can add explanations.
- 15:30:08 [Bert]
- r12a: Missing name for character e001.
- 15:30:40 [Bert]
- addison: I think it was originally a range...
- 15:30:48 [Bert]
- s/e001/e0001/
- 15:31:48 [Bert]
- David: Are these DOS restrictions still relevant?
- 15:32:09 [Bert]
- addison: EPUB uses them because ZIP files still have the same restrictions.
- 15:33:17 [Bert]
- Changes to 5.6 accepted.
- 15:33:48 [Bert]
- addison: Other section is 9.6.1
- 15:34:20 [Bert]
- r12a: I was confused whether it was about exceptions to the previous section. Suggest "Working with errors and exceptions".
- 15:35:03 [Bert]
- ... Wording: localizable content vs natural language text. Are we applying those correctly?
- 15:35:47 [Bert]
- ... Natural language text is kind of hand-waiving, but localizable text should be precise.
- 15:36:30 [Bert]
- addison: I'm happy to visit individual instances of the terms. Or do you want to talk about the terms themselves?
- 15:37:50 [Bert]
- ... We have a separate glossary document I'd like to put the items there.
- 15:38:13 [eemeli]
- Is there a Matrix bridge for this channel available somewhere? I see some w3c IRC channels on matrix.org, but not this one.
- 15:38:34 [Bert]
- r12a: The terms are there already. I suggest we indeed pull the glossary out of this best practices doc.
- 15:38:40 [r12a]
- https://w3c.github.io/i18n-glossary/#n
- 15:38:41 [addison]
- https://www.org/TR/i18n-glossary
- 15:40:03 [eemeli[m]]
- eemeli[m] has joined #i18n
- 15:40:34 [addison]
- move note up and link to glossary document, remove rest of glossary
- 15:40:57 [r12a]
- note at https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/55/6bb258c...aphillips:8e6435f.html#glossary
- 15:41:15 [Bert]
- r12a: Might be useful to move the note from the glossary section to the top of the doc and link from it to the glossary document.
- 15:41:21 [eemeli[m]]
- Answering my own earlier question: Yes, a bridge is available as `#irc.w3.org_#i18n:w3ctag.org`.
- 15:41:41 [eemeli]
- eemeli has left #i18n
- 15:42:22 [Bert]
- r12a: "content" sounds a bit strange. Maybe "localizable strings"?
- 15:42:42 [Bert]
- addison: Not all strings are localizable.
- 15:43:09 [Bert]
- David: And some things that are not strings are still localizable, such as images.
- 15:44:13 [Bert]
- addison: If one were to translate a document, what would one expect to see changed? That's the content we're referring to.
- 15:44:53 [Bert]
- r12a: Text that the user will see.
- 15:45:09 [Bert]
- addison: I can add "or strings" if that makes it clearer.
- 15:46:06 [Bert]
- ... I will have a conversation with the TAG, related to my action item.
- 15:46:53 [Bert]
- r12a: Adding "strings" will be useful to explain things to people.
- 15:46:54 [addison]
- action: addison: add "... and strings" to glossary definition of localizable content
- 15:46:55 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-1110 - Add "... and strings" to glossary definition of localizable content [on Addison Phillips - due 2022-01-27].
- 15:47:17 [Bert]
- ... Should we replace "localizable content" with "locallizable text"?
- 15:47:56 [Bert]
- addison: No, we don't mean all text, not the tags, e.g,
- 15:48:27 [Bert]
- David: Localizable content can be videos.
- 15:49:15 [Bert]
- r12a: I mean _localizable_ text (stress on localizable), not all text.
- 15:50:58 [Bert]
- addison: There is a discussion about localizable PNG (or some of the data in it), which is a binary format...
- 15:51:43 [Bert]
- r12a: Let me do the edits to the glossary.
- 15:51:59 [Bert]
- addison: I will edit the best practices.
- 15:52:39 [r12a]
- mojibake
- 15:52:54 [Bert]
- ... Should we make an issue or pull request about mojibake?
- 15:53:33 [Bert]
- r12a: A pull request.
- 15:54:54 [Bert]
- r12a: 3.1 uses "localizable" content in the second mustard and natural language in the first, is that consistent?
- 15:55:12 [Bert]
- addison: I think localizable content.
- 15:55:27 [Bert]
- About "content" vs "text"
- 15:55:42 [Bert]
- David: I think here it is "localizable text".
- 15:56:39 [Bert]
- addison: If I make the edits, will the links to the glossary be broken at first?
- 15:57:00 [Bert]
- r12a: We shouldn't worry about that, we'll fix that later.
- 15:57:28 [r12a]
- String meta is https://w3c.github.io/string-meta/
- 15:57:59 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 7
- 15:57:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:58:37 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/PNG-spec/issues/69
- 15:59:28 [Bert]
- atsushi: Text extension in PNG: shouldn't we recommend to use itxt instead and deprecate the latin-1 text extension?
- 16:00:28 [Bert]
- addison: Two problems: 1) use Unicode text extension (iTXT) when you can, but 2) the other extension still exists and thus should be well-defined.
- 16:01:23 [Bert]
- ... Historical reasons for the latin-1 encoding, it was a hack to pass bytes through.
- 16:02:17 [Bert]
- ... But update to PNG breaks that hack, because certain bytes become forbidden.
- 16:03:55 [Bert]
- zakim, end meeting
- 16:03:55 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Bert, JcK, Richard, r12a, David, xfq, Erik, Nordin, JvK, Eemeli, Aro
- 16:03:58 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:03:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html Zakim
- 16:04:01 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, Bert; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 16:04:06 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n
- 16:11:03 [r12a]
- s/<eemeli[m]> Answering my own earlier question: Yes, a bridge is available as `#irc.w3.org_#i18n:w3ctag.org`.//
- 16:11:21 [r12a]
- s/<eemeli> Is there a Matrix bridge for this channel available somewhere? I see some w3c IRC channels on matrix.org, but not this one.//
- 16:11:28 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:11:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html r12a
- 16:13:01 [r12a]
- s/Answering my own earlier question: Yes, a bridge is available as `#irc.w3.org_#i18n:w3ctag.org`.//
- 16:13:19 [r12a]
- s/Is there a Matrix bridge for this channel available somewhere? I see some w3c IRC channels on matrix.org, but not this one.//
- 16:13:23 [r12a]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:13:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-i18n-minutes.html r12a