17:38:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:38:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-irc
17:38:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:38:03 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:38:08 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
17:38:19 <jamesn> agendabot, fetch agenda
17:38:19 <agendabot> jamesn, sorry, I don't understand "fetch agenda". Try "agendabot, help".
17:38:25 <jamesn> agendabot, get agenda
17:38:25 <agendabot> jamesn, sorry, I don't understand "get agenda". Try "agendabot, help".
17:38:31 <jamesn> agendabot, help
17:38:31 <agendabot> jamesn, I am an instance of AgendaBot 0.4. For detailed help, type "help COMMAND", where COMMAND is one of invite, agenda, find, suggest, accept, this is, forget, status or bye. Or go to https://www.w3.org/Tools/AgendaBot/manual.html
17:38:40 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:38:40 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:38:40 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/1d223877-730c-446f-bfa9-2e9222902112/20220120T130000
17:38:40 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:38:40 <agendabot> agenda+ New Issue Triage
17:38:40 <agendabot> agenda+ New PR Triage
17:38:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Deep Dive planning
17:38:45 <agendabot> agenda+ Next week https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/1f06f919-513f-4341-aa47-2027ee0925c5
17:38:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Consider collapsing Base Concept category into Related Concepts
17:38:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided
17:38:54 <agendabot> agenda+ Figure out what to do with the DPUB mappings overlap with the ARIA Core spec, in the context of newer implementation differences
17:38:57 <agendabot> agenda+ [Role Parity] What do we do about embed?
17:38:59 <agendabot> agenda+ Clarify usage of aria-haspopup
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18:01:47 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
18:03:14 <Laurence> Laurence has joined #aria
18:03:17 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/cc/wiki/W3C_Calendar_Accessibility
18:04:29 <Jemma> Jemma has joined #aria
18:04:46 <carmacleod> carmacleod has joined #aria
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18:04:54 <Jemma> present+
18:04:56 <Jemma> agenda?
18:04:56 <carmacleod> present+
18:05:02 <Jemma> rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-minutes.html Jemma
18:05:21 <spectranaut> present+
18:05:40 <sarah_higley> sarah_higley has joined #aria
18:05:43 <sarah_higley> present+
18:06:00 <Jemma> scribe: Jemma and Carolyn
18:06:02 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
18:06:02 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- New Issue Triage -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:06:11 <Jemma> scribe:
18:06:16 <Jemma> Scribe:Jemma
18:06:28 <CurtBellew> CurtBellew has joined #aria
18:06:29 <carmacleod> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-03-11+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
18:06:46 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1675
18:06:55 <CurtBellew> present+
18:06:56 <scotto> present+
18:07:08 <aaronlev> aaronlev has joined #aria
18:07:20 <pkra> present+
18:08:25 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
18:08:34 <Stefan> present+
18:08:34 <Jemma> chris: I want to reinforce the note
18:09:28 <Jemma> michael: this will be assigned to APG group issue
18:09:32 <MichaelC> moved to https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2204
18:10:00 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1680
18:10:35 <Jemma> mck: APG moved this to ARIA this Tuesday
18:11:44 <Jemma> zakim, next item
18:11:44 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New PR Triage -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:11:54 <carmacleod> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2021-03-11+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
18:11:55 <spectranaut> https://bit.ly/3KsbGXG
18:12:00 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1678
18:12:22 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
18:12:24 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1681
18:12:33 <Jemma> it is word change so we can merge it.
18:13:00 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/pull/105
18:13:28 <Jemma> valerie: it does not need to be discussed now.
18:13:35 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1678
18:13:45 <Jemma> Update related concepts for landmarks
18:14:20 <Jemma> scott: adding missing related concept to the PR - adding link to banner, complementary and main.
18:14:45 <Jemma> jamesc: it matters in which version is merged into.
18:14:55 <Jemma> peter: I can merge the PR
18:14:59 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1676
18:15:09 <Jemma> Fix: add aria-level as supported on treeitem
18:15:48 <Jemma> scott: dropped supported property was added back
18:16:17 <sarah_higley> context: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1484
18:16:18 <Jemma> Joannie: I think I implemented the change.
18:16:54 <Jemma> scott: dds aria-level to the supported states and property cell of the characteristics table since its no longer being inherited due to the change to listitem
18:17:02 <Jemma> s/dds/adds/
18:17:41 <Jemma> joannie: level was dropped for xx as part of 1.2
18:18:09 <pkra> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1484
18:18:12 <Jemma> mck: level support was not dropped becuase APG can think of actual use case.
18:18:15 <pkra> removed aria-level from treeitem
18:18:20 <Jemma> s/can/cannot
18:18:37 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1667
18:18:42 <chlane__> chlane__ has joined #aria
18:19:39 <Jemma> abstract roles remove 'name from' #1667
18:20:18 <Jemma> agenda?
18:20:42 <Jemma> zakim, take up agenda 2
18:20:42 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New PR Triage -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:21:14 <Jemma> scott: last pr about figcaption. looking for the reivew/suggestion to update the issue
18:23:07 <scotto> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/pull/359
18:24:00 <Jemma> scott: explains the problem - "er what's being discussed there, if an entire video transcript were placed within a figcaption, the flattened text string of the transcript would become the accessible name for the parent figure"
18:24:20 <Jemma> mck: we saw the same problem in APG
18:24:34 <Jemma> ... any discussion about details?
18:25:00 <Jemma> s/er/Per/
18:25:16 <Jemma> Chris: do we need both name calculation?
18:26:07 <Jemma> Scott: this would make figure associated with figcaption additional details - they can use title, aria description, aria detail
18:26:51 <Jemma> mck: so will current mapping always take figure caption and ... name?
18:27:36 <Jemma> scott: caption is connected to  labelled by IAA2(MS?)
18:27:56 <Jemma> .. I need to check with UIA folk
18:28:12 <Jemma> s/folk/folks
18:28:22 <Jemma> scott: I still need to check a few things and to do.
18:28:39 <Jemma> TODO:
18:28:39 <Jemma> 
18:28:39 <Jemma>  need to check on updates to UIA mapping, if any.
18:28:39 <Jemma>  do we want figcaption to map to caption?
18:28:39 <Jemma>  regardless of above, caption will need to be updated in regards to its referencing figure and figcaption relationships
18:28:39 <Jemma>  aria-details definition should be updated to reference this change
18:29:00 <Jemma> mck: I thought caption was the one we pulled out.
18:29:45 <Jemma> scott: if there is any implementer who want to chime in, it would be good.
18:29:51 <Jemma> I will add jamec as the reviewer
18:29:56 <MichaelC> agenda+ Charter update
18:29:56 <Jemma> zakim, next item
18:29:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Deep Dive planning -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:30:15 <Jemma> jaemsn: sarah will talk about ..
18:30:33 <Jemma> Deep dive: Secondary actions on items in composite widget roles
18:30:37 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1440
18:31:07 <Jemma> jamesn: if there is any suggestion for deep dive, msg Jamesn
18:31:07 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
18:31:13 <Matt_King> present+
18:31:19 <jamesn> zakim, next item
18:31:19 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Next week https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/1f06f919-513f-4341-aa47-2027ee0925c5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:31:38 <Jemma> zakim, next item
18:31:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, Jemma
18:31:57 <Jemma> zakim, close this item
18:31:57 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
18:31:58 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:31:58 <Zakim> 5. Consider collapsing Base Concept category into Related Concepts [from agendabot]
18:32:00 <Jemma> zakim, next item
18:32:00 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Consider collapsing Base Concept category into Related Concepts -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:32:14 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1679
18:32:54 <Jemma> car: I am wondering whether having both Base Concept and Related Concepts is really all that useful? Perhaps it would be sufficient to just keep Related Concepts? If there's an existing Base Concept, it could simply be the first item in the list of Related Concepts? Thoughts?
18:33:29 <Jemma> comment from Jaws-test is
18:33:35 <Jemma> "I think the separation into base and related concepts is not wrong, it should just be done and described correctly:
18:33:35 <Jemma> 
18:33:35 <Jemma> base concept: similar element in another specification like e.g. HTML, SVG etc..
18:33:35 <Jemma> related concept: related role in the ARIA specification (like listitem and option, link and button)."
18:34:52 <Jemma> car:I'm still not sure about restricting Related Concepts to only aria, but it always makes sense to include alternative aria roles.
18:35:36 <Jemma> scott: "basically" related concept
18:36:28 <Jemma> : jamesn: we added a lot of xml
18:36:48 <Jemma> s/xml/xhtml/
18:36:58 <Jemma> s/added/removed
18:37:01 <Jemma> s/added/removed/
18:37:22 <Jemma> ...and remove those unless it is really useful
18:37:50 <Jemma> chris: it is really hard to teach ARIA . those concepts are valuable but I see the advantage of removing those.
18:38:14 <Jemma> ...if we have a chance to simplify the concept, I am up for it.
18:38:37 <Jemma> jamesn: APG is more intended for authors.
18:39:15 <Jemma> scott: I am happy to combine basic and realted concepts but
18:39:40 <Jemma> ..I would up for simplification
18:40:04 <Jemma> ...simplifying the concepts.
18:40:22 <Jemma> if needed we can make a reference to html.
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18:41:14 <Jemma> car and scott can work on this issue.
18:41:28 <Jemma> jamesn: important thing is keeping the consistency throughout the spec
18:41:34 <Jemma> zakim, next item
18:41:34 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Inconsistency between native and ARIA listboxes when implicit aria-selected is provided -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:41:52 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1661
18:42:46 <Jemma> carolyn will be ready for this.
18:43:06 <Jemma> s/this./this next week/
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18:43:26 <carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
18:43:32 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:43:32 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Figure out what to do with the DPUB mappings overlap with the ARIA Core spec, in the context of newer implementation differences -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:43:34 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1643
18:44:03 <zcorpan> zcorpan has joined #aria
18:44:28 <carmacleod> jamesn: Need more people to comment about what they think is useful here
18:44:54 <carmacleod> jcraig: I will add a comment. Reminder to the group that if you have opinions, please share.
18:44:59 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:44:59 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- [Role Parity] What do we do about embed? -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:45:01 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/929
18:45:27 <chlane__> herebedragons lol
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18:46:55 <carmacleod> q?
18:47:32 <carmacleod> scotto: I don't think there should be a role for these
18:48:13 <carmacleod> jcraig: For implementation consistency, might be useful to have a role that authors don't uses
18:48:31 <carmacleod> s/don't uses/don't use
18:49:35 <Jemma> s/jamec/jcraig/
18:49:46 <Jemma> s/jamesc/jcraig/
18:49:50 <carmacleod> jcraig: For instance, video has some features that can't be surfaced because there's no specific role
18:50:48 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/529
18:51:21 <pkra> agenda!important
18:52:17 <carmacleod> scotto: should we consolidate these?
18:52:49 <carmacleod> jamesn: I think there are enough people that want a role for audio and video that we shouldn't mix these with embed and object
18:53:04 <carmacleod> q?
18:53:53 <carmacleod> chris_lane: Is canvas similar?
18:54:04 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/927
18:54:18 <carmacleod> jamesn: There is an issue for canvas.
18:54:32 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
18:54:32 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Clarify usage of aria-haspopup -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:55:20 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1024
18:56:29 <carmacleod> jamesn: we need to talk some more before a proposal. there's not enough time today, so we'll put it early on the next agenda.
18:57:51 <Laurence> https://codepen.io/Deafinitive/pen/LYzMJYq
18:58:55 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call?
18:58:55 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Jemma, carmacleod, spectranaut, sarah_higley, CurtBellew, scotto, pkra, Stefan, Matt_King
18:59:37 <jcraig> s/For implementation consistency, might be useful to have a role that authors don't use/For implementation consistency, might be useful to have a role that authors don't use, but are returned by the developer tools in context like inspectors, WebDriver, and other interoperability tests/
19:00:14 <jcraig> s/context like inspectors/contexts like inspectors/
19:03:47 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
19:03:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
19:04:14 <carmacleod> present+ spectranaut, sarah_higley, CurtBellew, scotto, pkra, Stefan, Matt_King
19:04:33 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call?
19:04:33 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Jemma, carmacleod, spectranaut, sarah_higley, CurtBellew, scotto, pkra, Stefan, Matt_King
19:05:15 <carmacleod> present+ Laurence
19:05:26 <carmacleod> present+ Chris_Lane
19:05:40 <carmacleod> present+ jcraig
19:05:55 <carmacleod> present+ Michael_Cooper
19:06:15 <carmacleod> present+ cyns
19:06:27 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call?
19:06:27 <Zakim> Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Jemma, carmacleod, spectranaut, sarah_higley, CurtBellew, scotto, pkra, Stefan, Matt_King, Laurence, Chris_Lane, jcraig, Michael_Cooper, cyns
19:06:38 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
19:06:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
19:08:27 <carmacleod> present- Michael_Cooper
19:08:37 <carmacleod> present+ MichaelC
19:08:44 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
19:08:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
19:11:27 <carmacleod> present+ aaronlev
19:12:09 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
19:12:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
19:12:35 <carmacleod> present- Chris_Lane
19:12:41 <carmacleod> present+ chlane
19:12:46 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
19:12:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-aria-minutes.html carmacleod
20:54:20 <Jem> Jem has joined #aria