14:34:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #silver
14:34:08 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/01/14-silver-irc
14:34:10 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:34:12 <Zakim> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
14:34:24 <Lauriat> agenda+ Accessibility for Children preliminary functional needs
14:34:28 <Lauriat> agenda+ give feedback to Test Reliability on announcing change of natural language
14:34:28 <Lauriat> agenda+ integrating ATAG and UAAG into WCAG3
14:45:28 <Maud> Maud has joined #silver
14:52:04 <janina> janina has joined #silver
14:57:39 <SuzanneTaylor> SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
14:58:46 <jeanne> topic: Scribe List
14:59:04 <Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List
14:59:06 <shadi> shadi has joined #silver
14:59:06 <janina> present+
14:59:20 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #silver
14:59:20 <jeanne> present+
14:59:30 <Lauriat> Present+
14:59:35 <shadi> present+
14:59:46 <Wilco> present+
15:00:37 <jenniferS_> jenniferS_ has joined #silver
15:00:37 <Chuck> Chuck has joined #silver
15:00:39 <jenniferS_> present+
15:00:44 <SuzanneTaylor> present+
15:01:02 <ToddL> ToddL has joined #silver
15:01:05 <JF> JF has joined #silver
15:01:14 <MichaelC> present+
15:01:16 <JF> Present+
15:01:17 <ToddL> present+
15:01:31 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Scribe_List
15:01:37 <sarahhorton> sarahhorton has joined #silver
15:01:42 <sarahhorton> present+
15:01:47 <sarahhorton> I can scribe
15:01:55 <Rachael> present+
15:02:40 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #silver
15:02:52 <sarahhorton> scribe: sarahhorton
15:02:54 <Makoto> present+
15:03:25 <sarahhorton> zakim, take up item 1
15:03:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Accessibility for Children preliminary functional needs -- taken up [from Lauriat]
15:04:07 <Azlan> Azlan has joined #silver
15:04:07 <sarahhorton> SuzanneTaylor: Maude is co-chair of community group
15:04:27 <kirkwood> present+
15:04:29 <Azlan> present+
15:04:34 <sarahhorton> jeanne: Accessibility for Children community group, Suzanne liaison, accessibility needs for children
15:04:55 <sarahhorton> SuzanneTaylor: Maude Sternet (sp?) founded group
15:05:31 <sarahhorton> ...getting CG more active, contribute to WCAG 2 and other standards
15:05:53 <sarahhorton> ...working on user needs, thanks Jeanne
15:06:15 <sarahhorton> ...get feedback on functional needs based on accessibility for children research
15:06:31 <sarahhorton> Maud: Google docs presentation
15:06:36 <Maud> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12soj2a8-QvySeXmVI7J4b_cpiLpB-0RU/edit#slide=id.p1
15:07:05 <Lauriat> Possible to open access to anyone with the link?
15:07:20 <Lauriat> (getting access denied when I try to open the link)
15:07:27 <sarahhorton> Maud: Children have different profiles from adults, different rhythms, need instant feedback
15:07:42 <sarahhorton> ...less predictable, evolving competencies
15:07:44 <jenniferS_> Will you please share your screen, so we don't have to miss due to access issues?
15:07:46 <SuzanneTaylor> should be fixed now @Lauriat
15:07:58 <sarahhorton> ...research gap, disabled children as online users
15:07:59 <jenniferS_> I can't open where I work — due to rules.
15:08:18 <sarahhorton> ...have teens, education, wanted also for younger
15:08:22 <Lauriat> Fixed, thank you!
15:08:30 <sarahhorton> ...age appropriate features
15:08:50 <sarahhorton> ...reason why created group, also started working on methodology, evidence-based, work with users
15:09:05 <jenniferS_> * seeing the slides would be helpful
15:09:20 <sarahhorton> ...define new concepts, common language/understanding
15:10:34 <sarahhorton> ...sharing screen, reviewing slides
15:11:20 <sarahhorton> ...communicate about work at conferences
15:12:14 <sarahhorton> ...provide accommodation, sponsoring sign language interpreter, include children
15:13:02 <sarahhorton> ...review goals 2021, 2022,
15:13:19 <sarahhorton> ...functional needs for children with disabilities
15:13:43 <sarahhorton> ...lit review, is there existing research, identify remaining questions, advocate for more
15:14:17 <sarahhorton> ...document work in notes, create list of considerations for spec writers to use
15:14:55 <Lauriat> qv?
15:15:12 <sarahhorton> SuzanneTaylor: Document with initial notes on functional needs
15:15:13 <SuzanneTaylor> https://docs.google.com/document/d/14rnfFNVcagTra4pj2940mjRwP6krbjGlZG9mCIC2Y7o/edit?usp=sharing
15:15:29 <sarahhorton> ...share through zoom?
15:15:53 <sarahhorton> ...steps on how to write categories, found many reasons why children might have different needs
15:16:03 <MichaelC> q+
15:16:24 <MichaelC> q+ to say would like review in functional needs subgroup
15:16:24 <sarahhorton> ...looking at WCAG 3 functional needs, decided to write up as functional needs
15:17:25 <sarahhorton> ...took 2 categories, pull activity back and explore user needs
15:18:06 <sarahhorton> ...e.g., braille experience, if student using that and others using game, braille student might miss out
15:18:25 <sarahhorton> ...looked at functional needs and tried to frame categories same way
15:19:01 <sarahhorton> ...looked at stories, experiences with products/students, made progress, students given multiple ways to access materials
15:19:15 <sarahhorton> ...students struggling with choosing
15:19:57 <sarahhorton> ...e.g., math image, tactile, text description, meets different needs, problem is choosing
15:20:23 <sarahhorton> ...users need balance between agency and guidance
15:20:51 <MichaelC> ack me
15:20:51 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say would like review in functional needs subgroup
15:20:57 <sarahhorton> ...do these seem helpful as functional needs to get children's needs into WCAG 3
15:21:23 <sarahhorton> MichaelC: Look good, helpful, working on structure, would like others in group to review content
15:21:39 <sarahhorton> ...invite to meeting, might have suggestions
15:21:41 <MichaelC> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1POhgI_xHZtSoNbHFp3r5HYIkl6ePaP8DC5d90SZ1tF4/edit#gid=470134919
15:21:56 <sarahhorton> ...functional needs/users needs mapping, matrix
15:22:11 <sarahhorton> ...interesting to see if they fit
15:22:31 <sarahhorton> SuzanneTaylor: Should reach out?
15:22:48 <sarahhorton> MichaelC: Email group, also will raise on call
15:23:01 <MichaelC> public-a11y-functional-needs@w3.org
15:23:25 <Chuck> agenda?
15:23:33 <sarahhorton> s/Maude Sternet (sp?) /Maud Stiernet
15:23:49 <sarahhorton> SuzanneTaylor: Will continue work, come back in few months
15:24:03 <sarahhorton> zakim, take up next
15:24:03 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- give feedback to Test Reliability on announcing change of natural language -- taken up [from Lauriat]
15:24:47 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #silver
15:24:49 <sarahhorton> Wilco: Test reliability, start applying process to one outcome
15:24:58 <sarahhorton> ...programmatic language, have test rules
15:25:12 <sarahhorton> ...start looking for examples, edge cases
15:25:28 <sarahhorton> ...example of when important, when not
15:26:02 <sarahhorton> ...ran into question, how much needs indication
15:26:32 <sarahhorton> ...talked through examples, seems need isn't strong, more like preference
15:27:01 <sarahhorton> ...isn't ideal for individual words, disruptive
15:27:28 <janina> q+ Wondering whether to use lang specific TTS should be configurable
15:27:49 <sarahhorton> ...asked people, mailing list, clear examples where words were problem
15:28:10 <sarahhorton> ...didn't find much guidance/research
15:28:16 <shadi> q+ janina to say Wondering whether to use lang specific TTS should be configurable
15:28:31 <sarahhorton> ...write programmatic language for blocks of text but not every word
15:28:43 <Lauriat> q+ to offer to see whether I can find some research that Google might have that we can share (thinking Maps)
15:28:46 <sarahhorton> ...indicate for para, not words
15:28:58 <MichaelC> q+ to ask about the language
15:29:03 <Lauriat> ack janina
15:29:03 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to say Wondering whether to use lang specific TTS should be configurable
15:29:25 <MichaelC> q-
15:29:27 <sarahhorton> janina: As tts user, agrees switch can be disruptive, prefers something can control as user
15:29:47 <shadi> q+
15:30:12 <sarahhorton> Lauriat: Look for google research
15:30:33 <Wilco> q+
15:30:38 <Wilco> ack la
15:30:38 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to offer to see whether I can find some research that Google might have that we can share (thinking Maps)
15:30:41 <sarahhorton> ...with maps, voice changes with place names, might be research
15:31:03 <sarahhorton> MichaelC: Daily life in bilingual city
15:31:40 <sarahhorton> shadi: would config support needs, context based, might be different preferences depending on context
15:31:54 <sarahhorton> janina: Map to something easy to switch
15:32:27 <sarahhorton> ...list of email subjects, leave alone, funny mistakes
15:32:35 <Wilco> q?
15:32:37 <Wilco> ack sh
15:32:54 <sarahhorton> Wilco: Provide examples
15:33:12 <sarahhorton> ...not strong opposition?
15:33:32 <sarahhorton> janina: Cares a lot about topic
15:33:44 <sarahhorton> Lauriat: Guide others through how to make decisions
15:35:02 <sarahhorton> Wilco: Tricky, WCAG 2 based on language, about what tts understands, pronounces, real outcome is correct pronunciation
15:35:27 <sarahhorton> Lauriat: Would be confusing in some cases to have words pronounced correctly
15:35:40 <sarahhorton> ...correct depends on context
15:35:56 <sarahhorton> Wilco: Everyone want paragraph
15:36:07 <sarahhorton> ...Fair?
15:36:47 <sarahhorton> janina: Yes, structures can be problem
15:37:06 <sarahhorton> Wilco: How to define block, will continue work on it
15:37:46 <sarahhorton> janina: Mispronunciations that are correct
15:38:31 <Lauriat> ack Wilco
15:38:33 <sarahhorton> zakim, take up next
15:38:33 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- integrating ATAG and UAAG into WCAG3 -- taken up [from Lauriat]
15:38:45 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MCQG_MIaEyC3nfwkWGoDWS6XQzMykXeC7qOOjj8AG8M/
15:39:16 <sarahhorton> jeanne: Set up doc to capture issues, discussion questions, info to start working on issue
15:39:48 <sarahhorton> ...used example, good format to share with AGWG
15:40:02 <sarahhorton> ...provides context
15:40:39 <sarahhorton> ...github issue, #503, listed examples
15:41:03 <sarahhorton> ...core questions, how to make clear nature of barrier
15:41:15 <sarahhorton> ...charter non normative, change when recharter
15:41:23 <Lauriat> Q1: How to make it clear (Issue 503) that when a barrier needs to be addressed to clearly identify if it is user agent or content author responsibility?
15:41:24 <sarahhorton> ...commit to rewriting
15:41:27 <JF> Q+ to comment on recharter
15:41:31 <Lauriat> Q2: Our charter states only non-normative guidance for User Agents and Authoring Tools.  Does that need to change when we recharter?
15:41:32 <MichaelC> q+
15:41:38 <Lauriat> Q3: Are we willing to commit to writing each method to target just one of Content, UA or AT?
15:41:53 <sarahhorton> ...at identifying core questions stage
15:42:07 <MichaelC> q+ to mention db
15:42:14 <MichaelC> q+ to mention audiences
15:42:25 <sarahhorton> ...mutiple methods specialized by platform, do we want to do that
15:42:26 <MichaelC> q+ to say I would like crisp boundaries
15:42:46 <Lauriat> ack JF
15:42:46 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to comment on recharter
15:43:10 <sarahhorton> JF: Q2 re charter, WG doesn't decide, AC will approve/reject, was point of contention last time
15:43:21 <sarahhorton> ...open to looking at it, we don't get to decide
15:43:27 <Lauriat> ack MichaelC
15:43:27 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention db and to mention audiences and to say I would like crisp boundaries
15:43:38 <sarahhorton> MichaelC: Would need AC approval, we get to propose
15:43:56 <sarahhorton> ...need clear definition of what accomplishing
15:44:10 <sarahhorton> ...should do if can define
15:44:19 <sarahhorton> ...not confident about timeline, could try
15:44:33 <MichaelC> ack me
15:44:46 <sarahhorton> ...database with methods, outcomes, tagged
15:45:06 <sarahhorton> ...by technology, could be authoring method, design method, tool method
15:45:32 <sarahhorton> ...propose requiring methods to apply to 1 audience, 1 technology, would help be crisp
15:45:32 <Lauriat> q+ to ask a clarifying question on the question at hand
15:46:06 <Lauriat> ack me
15:46:06 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask a clarifying question on the question at hand
15:46:06 <sarahhorton> Lauriat: Are we trying to answer or come up with more questions
15:46:12 <sarahhorton> jeanne: Additional core questions
15:46:36 <sarahhorton> ...capturing solutions, too, but looking for issues
15:46:40 <Wilco> q+
15:47:15 <sarahhorton> Wilco: Are there parts we should be including?
15:47:26 <sarahhorton> ...useful and relevant things
15:47:33 <janina> q+
15:47:36 <jeanne> +1 to splitting it up
15:47:36 <Lauriat> q+ to propose reframing question 1 slightly
15:47:37 <Wilco> ack w
15:48:03 <sarahhorton> janina: Good to pull out good examples, more than informative guidance
15:48:24 <sarahhorton> ...what need to add normative guidance
15:48:44 <Lauriat> ack janina
15:48:53 <sarahhorton> ...accessible out of box
15:49:43 <sarahhorton> Lauriat: Reframe Q1, add part, now suggests either UA or author or tool
15:50:01 <sarahhorton> ...e.g., page language, content language
15:50:33 <sarahhorton> ...Chrome detecting language, expose to AT, authors don't have to do it
15:50:56 <MichaelC> q+
15:51:06 <sarahhorton> ...solutions through AT or UA and no defining line, lies with one
15:51:31 <sarahhorton> ...works correctly is what matters, method is shared
15:51:32 <jeanne> q+ to suggest we add Should it be topic based and tied to user needs?
15:51:39 <jeanne> ack la
15:51:39 <Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to propose reframing question 1 slightly
15:52:02 <sarahhorton> ...reframe so it's not "or"
15:52:10 <Lauriat> ack MichaelC
15:52:32 <sarahhorton> MichaelC: Division of responsibilities, hard for 1 doc to cover all, could have method groups
15:53:13 <sarahhorton> ...be sure one method is followed, or all methods, some model which to follow/not follow based on role/what's needed
15:53:33 <jeanne> ack j
15:53:33 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to suggest we add Should it be topic based and tied to user needs?
15:54:01 <sarahhorton> jeanne: Approach topic-based, tied to user needs?
15:54:46 <sarahhorton> ...start from user needs, look at UA and AT and see ATAG and UAAG, see what applies
15:55:23 <sarahhorton> Lauriat: Yes, guidance composition starts with users needs, use as source materials
15:55:28 <Lauriat> q?
15:57:13 <sarahhorton> jeanne: Yes, relevant guidance, esp in ATAG, 13 ATAG SCs tied to WCAG 2, very close, UAAG not as close
15:57:25 <sarahhorton> ...still lots that's realted
15:57:44 <sarahhorton> s/realted/related
15:58:51 <sarahhorton> ...look at methods for ATAG and UAAG for WCAG 3, also skim source documents for other issues, red flags
15:59:01 <sarahhorton> ...for next meeting
15:59:47 <sarahhorton> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/14-silver-minutes.html sarahhorton
16:01:05 <sarahhorton> s/Maud Stiernetfounded/Maud Stiernet founded
16:01:42 <sarahhorton> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/14-silver-minutes.html sarahhorton
16:06:40 <ToddL> ToddL has left #silver
16:19:41 <stevelee> stevelee has joined #silver