14:58:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwe
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14:58:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:59:00 <Zakim> Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG
14:59:09 <Ralph> chair: Tzviya
14:59:09 <Ralph> regrets: JBrewer
14:59:16 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2022Jan/0001.html
14:59:22 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/12/14-pwe-minutes.html previous 14 December
15:00:05 <Ralph> present: Tzviya, Ralph
15:00:47 <wendyreid> present+
15:01:29 <Ralph> present+ WSeltzer
15:01:39 <chaals> chaals has joined #pwe
15:02:20 <Ralph> present+ Chaals
15:05:17 <Ralph> present+ Léonie
15:05:19 <wendyreid> scribe+
15:05:28 <wendyreid> tzviya: Picking up on the agenda from last time
15:05:39 <wendyreid> ... we have changed the schedule to alternating tuesdays due to some confusion
15:05:51 <wendyreid> ... and Liz and I were getting some conflicts
15:05:52 <Ralph> agenda+ Training materials for chairs and general membership
15:05:52 <Ralph> agenda+ Ombuds update and ombuds training
15:05:52 <Ralph> agenda+ Issue triage
15:05:53 <Ralph> agenda+ AOB
15:06:13 <wendyreid> ... hopefully this doesn't get into anyone's way, please be in touch if there is a problem
15:06:23 <wendyreid> ... first item is a general call for training materials
15:06:28 <wendyreid> ... for chairs and members
15:06:40 <wendyreid> ... Jory had a pilot going for chairs training
15:06:47 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:06:47 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Training materials for chairs and general membership -- taken up [from Ralph]
15:06:50 <wendyreid> ... Wendy R took a stab at a training outline
15:07:00 <wendyreid> ... this should probably be for everyone
15:07:14 <wendyreid> ... I wanted to know if anyone is aware of publicly available materials
15:07:23 <wendyreid> chaals: I'm not sure where the stuff we have is
15:07:29 <wendyreid> ... but if someone could point
15:07:37 <wendyreid> tzviya: Jory's material belongs to her
15:07:44 <wendyreid> ... Wendy's material is a draft
15:08:12 <wendyreid> Ralph: Have we categorized the kinds of training we would like?
15:08:14 <wendyreid> q+
15:08:28 <wendyreid> tzviya: In my opinion, conflict deescalation training
15:08:40 <wendyreid> ... a lot of people receive anti-harassment training at work
15:08:43 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/wiki/CEPC-Training-Plan "CEPC Training Plan" [last edited Oct 2020]
15:08:52 <wendyreid> ... the Microsoft anti-harassment training is apparently god
15:08:55 <wendyreid> s/god/good
15:09:02 <wendyreid> ... there might be something there
15:09:20 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
15:09:23 <Ralph> scribe+
15:09:37 <Ralph> WendyR: I can share my materials after this meeting
15:09:59 <Ralph> ... the topics I focused on for Chairs were:how to run a good meeting
15:10:10 <Ralph> ... good communication practices: how to run an inclusive meeting
15:10:33 <Ralph> ... CEPC overview: how to apply CEPC in a chair's context, which we could modify to "how to use CEPC as a group members"
15:10:46 <Ralph> ... i.e. focused on how to be a good chair
15:10:53 <chaals> q+
15:10:57 <tzviya> ack chaals
15:11:17 <wendyreid> chaals: One of the specific things I'd like to do is to give chairs advice on when and how to stop a discussion
15:11:39 <Ralph> WendyR: I had that on my list
15:11:47 <Ralph> ... how to moderate or redirect a conversation
15:11:57 <Ralph> ... how to step in as a chair
15:12:09 <wendyreid> tzviya: At the heart of that is deescalation
15:12:17 <wendyreid> ... chairs can get steamrolled
15:12:48 <wendyreid> ... I do think conflict deescalation is key, and not just putting everything in the hands of the chair
15:13:05 <wendyreid> chaals: Recognizing a chair could be a problem too
15:13:09 <wendyreid> tzviya: Next steps?
15:13:20 <wendyreid> chaals: What form do we expect to deliver this in?
15:13:28 <wendyreid> tzviya: Good question
15:13:47 <Ralph> WendyR: I was thinking, at least for the Chairs' training, to have a live session
15:13:59 <Ralph> ... one goal is to foster discussion among the chairs about what is working well for them
15:14:10 <tink> present+ Léonie (tink)
15:14:36 <Ralph> ... the tricky part is that it would have to be live and we would not be able to record it to allow people to share specific details
15:14:45 <Ralph> ... we could do a separate recorded session
15:14:54 <tink> q+
15:15:00 <Ralph> ... it would also be good to do small-ish groups to get more engagement
15:15:12 <tzviya> ack ti
15:15:34 <wendyreid> tink: We could create a recording without an audience, then run peer group sessions
15:15:38 <wendyreid> ... run at convenient times
15:15:47 <wendyreid> ... watch then ask questions or participate
15:15:50 <Ralph> <Ralph> +1 to Léonie
15:16:33 <wendyreid> chaals: We expect chairs to be competent to manage a conversation, so they could interact with one another
15:16:45 <wendyreid> Ralph: They do still appreciate instruction
15:16:54 <wendyreid> ... +1 to something recorded
15:17:12 <wendyreid> tzviya: Link above to Wendy's document
15:17:32 <wendyreid> ... iterate on this as a starting point
15:17:41 <tzviya> https://rak.box.com/s/vcseu0mw5s7bqi2h0q9rj9ybjeqxyf0c
15:18:05 <wendyreid> chaals: We should repeat this more often than the current cyle
15:18:17 <wendyreid> tzviya: And not just limited to chairs, but maybe start with them
15:18:37 <wendyreid> Ralph: Looking at our performance, the reality is that it's easier to point to recordings
15:18:46 <wendyreid> tzviya: What are our next steps?
15:19:08 <Ralph> WendyR: I'm happy to take feedback on this outline and turn it into a skeleton presentation
15:19:18 <wendyreid> chaals: I will commit to going through the thing
15:19:33 <wendyreid> tzviya: And while Jory's presentation is hers, I will check to see if we can use some of it
15:19:56 <wendyreid> chaals: Could we use it as hers?
15:20:12 <wendyreid> tzviya: I'll see what I can do
15:20:48 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:21:10 <wendyreid> chaals: One of the key next steps is finding someone to run and schedule the training
15:21:25 <wendyreid> Ralph: Let's get Wendy the feedback and see what the material is and schedule
15:21:58 <wendyreid> ... on Jory's material, she has presented it to the team, there was sufficient feedback on it that we would have wanted a revision of it before more widely sharing
15:22:05 <wendyreid> ... I think there was some followup
15:22:23 <wendyreid> ... it might also be appropriate to wait for Jory
15:22:36 <wendyreid> ... I think what we've done is say that chair's training
15:22:51 <wendyreid> tzviya: Ombuds training is separate, I don't think we can do it ourselves
15:22:58 <wendyreid> ... Liz will have some feedback
15:23:14 <wendyreid> ... we can figure out presenters when we have more of a plan
15:23:28 <wendyreid> ... next item is about ombuds training and the program
15:23:32 <wendyreid> zakim, next item
15:23:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Ombuds update and ombuds training -- taken up [from Ralph]
15:23:48 <wendyreid> tzviya: Shiela is back, and she has done much of the work
15:24:06 <wendyreid> ... we have a  document on hiring and recruiting, and are ready to move forward there
15:24:10 <wendyreid> ... but we don't have training
15:24:19 <wendyreid> ... we don't have the internal capacity for training them
15:24:52 <wendyreid> ... W3C ombuds are not unique to other orgs, so we need a case and reasoning and costs
15:25:00 <wendyreid> ... Shiela has to follow on that
15:25:14 <wendyreid> ... we need to come up with a formal training plan
15:25:27 <wendyreid> ... we're fairly ready to go forward aside from training
15:25:34 <wendyreid> ... would like feedback though
15:25:36 <tzviya> Ombuds job description https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/main/DraftOmbudsJobDescription.md
15:25:41 <wseltzer_away> q+
15:25:50 <tzviya> ack wseltzer
15:26:09 <wseltzer> q-
15:26:44 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:30:50 <wendyreid> tzviya: Role of the ombuds is to be a sounding board and advise on action
15:31:01 <wendyreid> ... also on the table is a revision to disciplinary actions
15:31:02 <Ralph> "suggest options for addressing member concerns through existing processes and pathways." -- from the draft job description
15:31:09 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/main/CEPCdisciplinary-process.md
15:31:13 <Ralph> s/"suggest/<Ralph> "suggest
15:31:19 <wendyreid> ... Liz has also been working on a revision including actions in CEPC
15:31:37 <wendyreid> ... there's a lot of room between violation and ejection
15:31:43 <wendyreid> ... this is an attempt to define some of this
15:32:20 <wendyreid> ... we've received requests that other CoCs have consequences in the same docuement, ours are in several, that would involve a revision of CEPC
15:32:35 <wendyreid> ... we'll find better terminology
15:33:05 <wendyreid> ... disciplinary process is needed in conjunction with ombuds
15:33:33 <tzviya> q?
15:33:44 <wendyreid> chaals: We need definitions and clarifications about warnings vs recorded offences
15:33:56 <wendyreid> ... understanding where someone is in the process
15:34:04 <wendyreid> ... here is what someone should expect
15:34:25 <wendyreid> ... chairs should have language or process for communicating that
15:34:32 <wendyreid> tzviya: Have to give it some thought
15:34:39 <wendyreid> q+
15:34:56 <wseltzer> q+
15:35:05 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
15:35:31 <Ralph> WendyR: I want to steer away from examples
15:35:46 <Ralph> ... but we do have to have some clear language "this is now a disciplinary process
15:35:51 <Ralph> s/process/process"
15:36:12 <Ralph> ... to make it clear that this is now serious
15:36:29 <Ralph> ... and not just a suggestion for a course correction
15:36:53 <chaals> s/need definitions and clarifications about warnings vs recorded offences/should IMHO consider providing some clear examples of what happens in practice - how to know you're giving or getting a warning, …/
15:37:03 <Ralph> ... we've seen instances where people use CEPC-adjacent language but not explicitly a warning
15:37:12 <tzviya> ack ws
15:37:15 <Ralph> ... giving chairs a way to communicate that will be important for the process
15:37:33 <wendyreid> wseltzer: I've been working with Liz on this
15:37:58 <wendyreid> ... being clear enough to give people guidance without the appearance of bright lines constraining behaviour
15:38:12 <wendyreid> ... we need a flexible process that allows for judgement
15:38:24 <wendyreid> ... it has to be flexible to protect the community
15:38:35 <wendyreid> tzviya: Flexible but clear
15:38:52 <wendyreid> ... working on the ombuds program goes hand in hand with this
15:39:01 <wendyreid> ... we'll have updates soon hopefully
15:45:37 <wendyreid> zakim, next item
15:45:37 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Issue triage -- taken up [from Ralph]
15:45:44 <wendyreid> tzviya: Issue triage
15:45:51 <wendyreid> ... we have a ton of open issues
15:46:00 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/issues open issues
15:46:01 <wendyreid> ... one thing I would like to do at some people
15:46:05 <wendyreid> s/people/point
15:46:08 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/IDCG/issues
15:46:23 <wendyreid> ... we have IDCG issues that we should likely address or close
15:46:28 <wendyreid> ... there are 25 open issues
15:46:39 <wendyreid> ... some of these are related to things like the diversity fund
15:47:01 <wendyreid> ... establish an ERB (equity review board)
15:47:12 <wendyreid> ... it's hard to manage two repositories
15:47:22 <wendyreid> ... there are some that just need to be closed
15:47:27 <wendyreid> ... any thoughts?
15:47:36 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:47:52 <wendyreid> Ralph: Just thinking about the mechanics, some group use labelling instead of closing
15:47:58 <wendyreid> ... it could help with coordination
15:48:24 <wendyreid> tzviya: That's a possibility
15:48:51 <wendyreid> ... maybe we can wait until we have a larger group
15:49:02 <wendyreid> wseltzer: Most things haven't been touched in over a year
15:49:13 <wendyreid> ... might use activity metrics as a measure
15:49:50 <wendyreid> tzviya: Let's leave this for next meeting
15:49:53 <wendyreid> ... AOB?
15:50:21 <wendyreid> ... see you all in two weeks!
15:50:52 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
15:50:52 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, Ralph, wendyreid, WSeltzer, Chaals, Léonie, (tink)
15:50:54 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:50:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/01/04-pwe-minutes.html Zakim
15:50:57 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:51:01 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwe
16:02:07 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
16:02:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items