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15:57:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:57:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:58:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20211208T110000
15:58:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:58:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ Patrick H. Lauke
16:00:03 <smaug> present+ smaug
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16:00:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present +flackr
16:01:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: quick round-up of PRs merged
16:02:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Remove should from boundary events note and move to normative must https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/419
16:03:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: Mustaq had extra suggestions, but went ahead and merged to unblock
16:03:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Reword altitudeAngle note, expand tiltX and tiltY explanation https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/422
16:05:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: small tweak that came out of working on illustrations. the "correlates to" wording originally was there i suspect when default was 0, rather than pi/2. once we changed the latter, the "correlates" seemed odd
16:05:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: yes, looks good
16:05:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Improve illustrations https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/423
16:08:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: harmonised the look of tiltX/tiltY, and tweaked them all so the X/Y/Z axes are correct (since the Y axes were pointing in the "wrong" direction - right for 3D apps, but wrong for screen coordinates)
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16:11:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I was just confused about the sentence change in the #422 pull request
16:12:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [explanation of what the core here is: in Touch Events altitudeAngle is 0 by default, but pi/2 in PE, so we wanted to draw attention to that]
16:12:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: was even considering dropping the "However, ..." sentence to make the note purely about altitudeAngle
16:13:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: our concern was that the default being 0 implied that the pen is lying flat
16:15:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: in ideal world it would be good to be able to differentiate between "perpendicular" or "not available".
16:16:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: could use NaN
16:17:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: or nullable
16:17:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: but if we did it for altitudeAngle we'd have to do it for all others tiltX/tiltY/azimuthAngle/pressure ...
16:18:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: arguably not many devices actually use it
16:19:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to make follow-up pull request for #422 to remove "However..." and can then discuss any further changes
16:20:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> and also mention that there's an attribute with same name altitudeAngle in TE
16:21:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: How is pointer event ctor supposed to work when coalescedEvents is passed using the PointerEventInit https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/223
16:22:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: if we want to make PE spec more like DOM spec, we can define the steps/algorithms
16:22:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: other cases are easy because automatically matching DOM spec, but there's nothing for coalesced/predicted, as they're internal to our spec
16:23:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: we also need to change our tests/implementations, because the target of the coalesced and predicted events is set
16:23:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: makes sense we don't modify the untrusted events
16:23:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: agree
16:23:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: sounds good
16:24:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: DOM spec says that specs can define their construction events
16:25:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: need to define that it's for all pointer events
16:25:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: Olli want to take a stab at this?
16:25:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I will, and tweak test. then we just need to fix implementations
16:25:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Olli to make PR for #233 and tweak tests
16:25:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: will probably still need to ask how to best do it
16:26:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: touch-action:none and overflow:auto https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/319
16:26:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we had an action last time to review #319 and see if we need/want changes to spec
16:28:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: where it gets tricky is that as overflow-scroll is new, many sites use clip, so they may not intend to active scroll behavior
16:28:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we should prevent scroll from chaining to the outer scroller, that's going to be complicated
16:29:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: is this even something WE need to define, or is this something the CSS spec needs to define? or somewhere in between?
16:29:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: need mor context
16:30:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: currently when you have overflow:auto/overflow:scroll it implicitly re-enabled panning. and this is confusing/surprising if author has used touch-action:none.
16:30:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we have overflow scroll API now, so we could use the logic from that
16:32:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: looking at comment https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/319#issuecomment-614788889
16:33:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I can try to come up with stronger position on this for next meeting
16:33:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: wonder what webkit does, is it mentioned here?
16:34:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: for me, one request is to have an actual live demo of the problem, can't quite grok it at the moment
16:34:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i can put together few demos, that can help us
16:34:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: create some demos/think some more on best way forward for #319
16:35:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rssagent, drop action 3
16:35:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Rob to create some demos/think some more on best way forward for #319
16:37:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: three open issues around pointer capture (make sense to look at these in block?)
16:37:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we have three issues circling around pointer capture
16:37:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Order of pointer events across frames when using pointer capture https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/355
16:37:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Clarify what the target of the click event should be after capturing pointer events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/356
16:37:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Clarify when lostpointercapture should fire https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/357
16:38:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: not going to resolve these all today obviously, but as they're all related to pointer capture, these make me think we need to have a good hard look at our pointer capture section
16:38:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: #356 looks significant
16:39:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: these are for same origin frames, so i would expect they have the same queue for all the events
16:40:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: is this #356 or #355
16:40:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: no sorry, #355 for this. my fault for dumping them all here
16:41:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so would be good to think about these for next meeting
16:42:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: #355 might be a bit special because it's different frames
16:42:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: might just be a chrome bug
16:42:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: not sure if bug, or if HTML spec says anything about input event handling across frames, or if it's something we need to define ourselves
16:42:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: only reason to have undefined order is if it needs to be able to run async
16:43:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: beyond that, didn't have anything to discuss this time. we're working off issues marked v3 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Av3
16:45:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Once we work off these last v3 issues, we'll be in a good position to say we want to push for v3 publication. after that, we can tackle the issues marked for future, under the new publishing model which will make the process going forward much more nimble
16:46:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: look at #355 #356 #357 for next meeting
16:46:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:46:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, create minutes
16:46:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
16:46:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:47:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
16:47:04 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
16:47:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to make follow-up pull request for #422 to remove "However..." and can then discuss any further changes [1]
16:47:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-51
16:47:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Olli to make PR for #233 and tweak tests [2]
16:47:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-irc#T16-25-41
16:47:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: create some demos/think some more on best way forward for #319 [3]
16:47:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-irc#T16-34-38
16:47:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Rob to create some demos/think some more on best way forward for #319 [4]
16:47:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-irc#T16-35-46
16:47:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: look at #355 #356 #357 for next meeting [5]
16:47:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-pointerevents-irc#T16-46-13