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16:41:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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16:41:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:41:41 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2021
16:41:49 <janina> agenda?
16:41:54 <janina> Chair: Becky
16:41:54 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements;
16:41:54 <janina> agenda+ Task Force Updates;
16:41:54 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
16:41:57 <janina> agenda+ Accessibility Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
16:42:00 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:42:03 <janina> agenda+ Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned
16:42:06 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
16:42:08 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:42:11 <janina> agenda+ be done
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16:57:40 <becky> agenda?
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16:59:27 <PaulG> present+
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17:00:11 <becky> chair: becky
17:00:14 <becky> present+
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17:00:35 <JF> agenda?
17:00:43 <Fazio> present+
17:00:43 <JF> Present+
17:01:43 <Joshue108> present+
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17:03:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> present?
17:03:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
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17:03:48 <Gottfried> present+
17:03:53 <Fredrik> present+
17:04:04 <mike_beganyi> present+
17:04:20 <janina>  present+
17:04:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe: Lionel
17:04:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe: Lionel_Wolberger
17:04:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:04:38 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements; -- taken up [from janina]
17:04:49 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2021Nov/0012.html
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17:05:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: RQTF agreed for Captcha to go into FPWD
17:05:45 <anevins> present+
17:05:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ...  goal is to get to Statement Status
17:05:48 <Gottfried> Master thesis: Development and validation of a concept for layered audio descriptions. https://nbn-resolving.org/urn:nbn:de:bsz:900-opus4-66690
17:06:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: A masters Thesis for 'new concept for audio descriptions' offering short, med and long
17:06:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... with the player supporting end-user preference for short or long
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17:06:49 <Jonny_James> present+
17:06:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Support for audio explanations, targeted to COGA users
17:07:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 'Development and validation of a concept for layered audio descriptions'
17:07:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... references the MAUR
17:07:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the student could present this material to APA
17:08:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> becky: Next week?
17:08:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Suggest January
17:08:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: I will check the 5th or the 12th for next year
17:08:50 <JF> Q+
17:09:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I'd appreciate the extra time in order to publicize the work prior to presenting it
17:09:07 <Fredrik> q+
17:09:15 <Joshue108> ack jf
17:09:24 <becky> ack JF
17:09:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: It uses an XML data structure, note that browser vendors prefer JSON today
17:09:58 <becky> ack Fredrik
17:10:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> Fredrik: How much of a proof of concept stage is it?
17:10:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: The open source AblePlayer was extended to consume the XML descriptions
17:10:47 <Fredrik> q-
17:10:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... https://ableplayer.github.io/ableplayer/
17:11:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... ble Player is a fully accessible cross-browser HTML5 media player.
17:11:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:11:05 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Task Force Updates; -- taken up [from janina]
17:12:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: RQTF update. Working on the SAUR.
17:12:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> PaulG: Pronunciation met with ARIA-WG.
17:13:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... revising the candidate
17:13:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> Fazio: COGA spoke about a11y remote meetings, sent that in a comment to APA
17:14:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... how to reference the Content Useable document (platform provider section)
17:14:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: This won't be ready until next week.
17:16:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Personalization's response i18n was recorded in git  this should clear the blocker
17:16:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... went on to Modules 2 and 3, we see COGA involvement in future
17:16:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:16:25 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
17:16:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: Second Screen discussion
17:16:57 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Dec/0011.html
17:17:08 <JF> Q+
17:17:15 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/291
17:17:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Had a dialogue with Francois regarding the broader meaning of Second Screen
17:17:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and the sending of captions
17:19:19 <becky> ack JF
17:19:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> becky: Clarifying. Ignoring a11y. Does second screen mean separating audio, video, caption streams?
17:19:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: Discussed on MAUR. It is simply a second screen, sending streamed content to the device
17:19:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... refreshable braille output device distracts from the fundamental question
17:20:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... which is, when sending content to a Second Screen, the supplemental pieces (caption) can be furnished in-band or out of band
17:20:27 <janina> q+
17:20:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... out of band should be sent with the child construct of, "track"
17:21:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this ensures the second screen(tablet, watch, telephone) will have the responsiblity to provide the AT support
17:21:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Consider a dumb terminal without a speaker-- it will lack the ability to drive audio
17:22:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the second screen is never in the control (aka master) role. e.g., only the primary device can hit pause, which controls the media stream
17:23:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... APA could insist that the second screen must support assistive technologies
17:23:15 <becky> ack janina
17:23:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> becky: This is about chartering
17:23:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: The charter can enforce that they are defining an API
17:23:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we are still clarifying what they can and cannot achieve
17:24:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: The issue seems to be output vs input. the second screen can process the stream regardless of the primary device
17:24:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
17:25:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... make sure the second screen is not constrained in any way
17:25:49 <JF> Q+
17:25:52 <becky> ack Lionel_Wolberger
17:27:33 <becky> ack JF
17:27:41 <janina> q+
17:28:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: It seemed that some people hinted that the second screen has all capabilities. We want to be sure that the second screen can consume the API properly, and then render whatever it is a capable of rendering, including any AT-oriented information
17:28:39 <becky> q+
17:28:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: Yes, that is the intention. The Second Screen API should ensure that all the relevant HTML is sent to the second screen including any anciallry data,
17:29:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... particularly a11y information
17:29:13 <becky> ack janina
17:29:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... must remain intact so that if the second screen *can* render, it will
17:29:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: For example, the Bluetooth Speaker may be selected (by the user) to only receive the audio descriptions
17:30:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this relies on a good definition of the controller
17:30:08 <Joshue108> q?
17:30:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: Two use cases
17:30:24 <Joshue108> q+
17:30:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... (1) the controller is a selector, determining what the second screen renders
17:30:49 <JF> Q+
17:30:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... (2) the secondary device has all information
17:31:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> becky: Main receiver is the controller, implies that the second screen has an API that can be queried, and respond with a list of the services that are supported
17:31:48 <becky> ack becky
17:31:48 <Joshue108> ack bec
17:31:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: A dumb braille display cannot. Other devices can.
17:31:53 <Joshue108> ack josh
17:32:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> Joshue108: Second screen may not be able to be a completely dumb device.
17:32:38 <janina> q+
17:32:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... an API to mediate the choices sounds important
17:32:50 <becky> ack JF
17:33:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: Their response was centered on a dumb device. What I seek is more clarification when the second screen is a *smart* device
17:33:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... which can help the end-user make selections
17:33:55 <becky> ack janina
17:34:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: The response also said Second Screen APi would not support a text stream. This is a problem, as captions are always a text streem
17:34:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: Text output does not imply that it will be a text stream. It may be transmitted in MP4 wrapper
17:34:42 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
17:34:42 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
17:34:43 <Zakim> 3. New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 [from janina]
17:34:43 <Zakim> 4. Accessibility Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
17:34:43 <Zakim> 5. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina]
17:34:43 <Zakim> 6. Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned [from janina]
17:34:47 <Zakim> 7. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
17:34:47 <Zakim> 8. Other Business [from janina]
17:34:47 <Zakim> 9. be done [from janina]
17:35:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: The use cases are in the MAUR
17:35:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we will ask for further clarifications
17:35:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... as this is quite important to APA that we ensure the a11y information in HTML is made available to the Second Screen
17:36:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: We want the HTML information to be preserved. We dont need it to be supported
17:36:21 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: made available?
17:36:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> JF: Agree
17:36:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> +1 to preserving HTML a11y information to the second screen
17:36:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
17:37:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: They are pressuring to send it fast
17:37:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina:  Will try to resolve before next Wed
17:38:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:38:05 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Accessibility Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
17:38:18 <MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6710
17:39:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: Scrollbars do not meet WCAG 2.0 AA requirements
17:40:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I suggest we track it
17:40:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: we will track
17:41:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:41:01 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
17:41:20 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag-3.0-explainer/ Explainer for W3C Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 3.0
17:41:58 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/imsc-hrm/ IMSC Hypothetical Render Model
17:42:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> becky: Consensus on this call: no need to track the explainer
17:42:18 <MichaelC> -> https://github.com/w3c/imsc-hrm/issues/17 self review
17:43:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: It's about painting text subtitles
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17:46:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: What happens when the rendering device finds that it cannot render the subtitle?
17:46:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> PaulG: This is just a deciding process, and does not involve the failure state
17:52:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Due to a concern over handling of the rror state, Lionel to review the spec and give a summary to the APA list. Decide next time whether to close it
17:52:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:52:58 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from janina]
17:53:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, previous item
17:53:06 <Zakim> I don't understand 'previous item', Lionel_Wolberger
17:53:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, take up item 5
17:53:22 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
17:54:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
17:54:06 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, Lionel_Wolberger
17:54:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, take up item 6
17:54:14 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Dangling Spec Review Cleanup: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review_Assigned -- taken up [from janina]
17:54:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> becky: EPUB Reading Systems 3.3 was closed at TPAC
17:55:18 <becky> q?
17:55:47 <becky> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2021Dec/0012.html
17:55:53 <becky> WebXR Layers API Level 1
17:55:59 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/webxrlayers-1/
17:56:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> subtopic: WebXR Layers API Level 1
17:56:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> Joshue108: Adds composition layers (projection, quad, cylinder...)
17:57:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... there is a question on rerendering and how it impacts legibility
17:58:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... resolution for eye buffers
17:58:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... The eye buffer is a required intermediate step when rendering stereo 3d on a rift.
17:58:43 <MichaelC> q+
17:59:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> MichaelC: The comment is not ready to send as-is, as it has an a11y question and is not an a11y statement
18:00:34 <becky> rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/12/08-apa-minutes.html becky
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