16:02:02 RRSAgent has joined #tt 16:02:02 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/11-tt-irc 16:02:04 RRSAgent, make logs Public 16:02:05 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 16:02:36 scribe: nigel 16:02:53 atai has joined #tt 16:03:00 Present: Andreas, Cyril, Nigel, Pierre 16:03:03 Regrets: Gary 16:03:14 Chair: Nigel 16:05:14 Present+ Atsushi 16:05:24 Topic: This meeting 16:05:54 Nigel: Today we have IMSC HRM 16:06:08 .. And I'd like to add an extra item to that, which is about tests. 16:06:25 .. Also we have Charter 16:06:30 .. And A question about Registries 16:06:48 .. Any other business or points to make sure we cover? 16:07:29 group has no other business 16:07:32 Topic: IMSC HRM 16:07:52 Nigel: Good news, we published the FPWD, alongside a tweet and blog post. 16:08:06 .. Thank you Pierre and Atsushi for getting that done. 16:08:42 .. Call for Exclusion has been issued. 16:09:03 Subtopic: Should we initiate the HR process immediately? 16:09:46 Pierre: Were any other changes made other than the publication date so I can merge the PR? 16:10:09 Atsushi: I edited the github reference and the date. 16:10:12 Pierre: Okay, thanks. 16:10:32 Atsushi: There are some respec issues that made me have to edit the HTML, but they should get fixed. 16:10:44 Pierre: Should I change only the date or do you want to make those changes on the PR? 16:10:49 Atsushi: I think only the date. 16:11:01 Pierre: OK, thanks. 16:11:15 s/Should we initiate the HR process immediately?/Merging the PR 16:11:27 Subtopic: Should we initiate the HR process immediately? 16:11:43 Nigel: The sooner we initiate Horizontal Review the better. 16:11:48 .. I wonder if we're ready to do it now? 16:12:23 .. We have an empty Privacy and Security Considerations section, so we should write something there. 16:12:47 .. It should be quite easy to right. 16:13:34 .. The nature of this, i.e. specifying a tool that does static analysis of a document, means that there isn't really any consideration at all. 16:13:37 .. Does that seem fair? 16:13:41 Pierre: Yes. 16:14:02 Nigel: I will raise an issue for this. 16:14:50 .. I've raised https://github.com/w3c/imsc-hrm/issues/12 which is incomplete, just so we have something in place. 16:15:04 .. Any other thoughts on HR? 16:15:18 Pierre: How do we actually start it? Is it automatic? 16:15:23 Nigel: It's not automatic 16:15:28 .. But there are tools that help, I think. 16:15:54 pal has joined #tt 16:16:27 https://www.w3.org/Guide/documentreview/ 16:17:16 Atsushi: We need to follow the checklist in the document I just pasted. After that I can take an action to add to the HR repositories. 16:17:44 .. One minor question. Do we assume the document is already stable? 16:17:55 Nigel: There's one issue open on the content I think. 16:18:18 Atsushi: I understand that. If we assume we develop some section more then it may be better to wait. 16:20:05 Nigel: My sense is that resolving the open issue about span will have no impact on HR. 16:20:16 Pierre: My sense is that any change for that issue will have no impact on HR. 16:20:40 .. Experience is that starting HR sooner is helpful. 16:20:59 .. It should be uneventful because the content has already been published. 16:21:06 .. We could go through the checklist now. 16:22:18 .. How do you want to do it Nigel? 16:22:40 Nigel: I think I'd like 2 members to volunteer and go through and comment on the ticket. 16:22:53 .. Because this should be easy, hopefully we will have the same conclusions. 16:23:13 .. Doing offline more efficient, if we have something to discuss then if need be we can do it on a call. 16:23:25 Pierre: Happy to volunteer to do that. 16:23:27 Nigel: Me too. 16:23:50 .. That's now assigned to me and Pierre on the Github issue. 16:24:19 .. Any other questions or thoughts on Horizontal Review? 16:24:34 Atsushi: Do we want to get wider review from external WGs or external parties? 16:25:05 Pierre: Yes we definitely should send this to ATSC. We've done this in the past. 16:25:16 .. It's a courtesy FYI so they're aware of it. 16:25:33 Nigel: It's more than that - to get to CR we have to demonstrate Wide Review. 16:25:40 Pierre: The Charter requires us to do it, right? 16:25:42 Nigel: Yes. 16:26:26 .. Since this is content from a previous Rec we could try to make the case that it's already had review, but 16:26:34 .. I think it's better to go through the cycle as normal for a new spec. 16:26:49 Pierre: Since we've made some changes we should highlight what we've done and the clarifications we have made. 16:26:51 Nigel: Yes 16:27:20 .. Atsushi did that answer your question? 16:27:30 Atsushi: Yes 16:27:38 Nigel: Any more on HR? 16:28:22 Pierre: Do you want to do tag team on the text to send, and you can send it Nigel? 16:28:27 Nigel: Thanks, that'd be great. 16:28:53 Subtopic: IMSC HRM tests 16:29:46 Nigel: We already have imsc-tests - do we want to create a subfolder in there for HRM tests or 16:29:51 .. create a new repo just for HRM tests? 16:30:10 Pierre: I vote for a separate repo but happy to be convinced otherwise if someone has strong views. 16:30:14 Nigel: I have no strong views. 16:30:21 .. (on this!) 16:30:52 Pierre: The IMSC HRM project I have worked on has some tests so we could use those. 16:30:58 Nigel: Sounds like a good start. 16:31:19 .. Should we create a new repo called imsc-hrm-tests for those then? 16:31:31 Pierre: Sounds good to me 16:31:31 +1 16:31:44 Nigel: Atsushi, please could you do that? 16:31:54 Atsushi: Yes, let me take an action for next week. 16:32:56 Nigel: done, as https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/206 16:33:17 Nigel: Thank you - when that's created we can look at populating it later. 16:34:16 Topic: Charter 16:35:14 Nigel: I think we're getting there with this - I will need to add IMSC HRM as a New Technical Report. 16:35:39 Cyril: Many of you go, Netflix has been working on a project called Timed Text Authoring Lineage, 16:35:46 .. and it's an activity that we want to bring to W3C. 16:35:58 .. Nigel I'm wondering if we can add something to the Charter for that? 16:36:08 .. Do you want me to make a formal presentation of the activity to the Group? 16:36:12 .. What's the process? 16:37:22 Nigel: Good question. I think there's a fighting chance that we have one deliverable that covers 16:37:32 .. both TTAL and Audio Description requirements, and if we can do that, then we should. 16:37:47 Cyril: Is it a Technical Report or a Rec Track document? 16:37:51 Nigel: Both. 16:38:45 .. What I think would work well is if you could update the requirements and use cases for AD to include the requirements of TTAL. 16:38:57 Cyril: Okay but do we need to do anything in the Charter? 16:39:24 Nigel: Would it work if... 16:39:58 Cyril: Change "TTML Profile for Audio Description" to "TTML Profile for Audio Description and Dubbing Workflows"? 16:40:04 Nigel: That's what I was going to suggest! 16:40:22 Pierre: Can we put on screen the latest draft of the Charter? It's a good opportunity to review what it says. 16:40:42 .. It seems weird that we have to anticipate all the potential applications of TTML that we may want over 2 years? 16:40:53 .. Can we write the Charter so we don't have to explicitly list those. 16:41:14 Nigel: We already have: "The Working Group MAY develop additional Recommendation-track and non-Recommendation-track Technical Reports." 16:41:18 Pierre: Okay. 16:41:31 Nigel: But if we know we want to do this then it makes sense to signal it. 16:42:01 Atsushi: Actually if there is a resolution in the WG we can add anything to the new TR section even if we don't have a finished draft yet. 16:42:51 .. Some WGs have the ability to incubate new Rec track specifications. The WG lists potential specs under incubation in a community group. 16:43:05 .. We can list any document if we consider we might be able to work on it in the period of the Charter. 16:43:25 Nigel: Yes, that's what we do now, which is fine. 16:44:02 Atsushi: On the other hand we can re-charter at any point to include new specs in the TR section. 16:44:06 Nigel: Oh, that's horrible! 16:44:24 .. Every time we have to recharter it's pain, admin headache and we would rather do less of that. 16:44:54 .. I would rather have a more flexible charter. 16:45:04 Pierre: I think we need to write that the group will work on profiles of TTML. 16:45:12 .. If during review someone is not happy then we can talk about it. 16:45:32 Nigel: I will prepare a PR for that, and to remove TTML3 too. 16:45:42 Pierre: Please point me to it and I will be happy to join the conversation. 16:45:45 Nigel: Will do. 16:46:03 Subtopic: Charter/Process crossover 16:46:10 Nigel: Atsushi added this to the agenda. 16:46:18 .. The new Process has come into operation, Process 2021. 16:46:30 .. It allows for a more formal process for managing Registries. 16:46:37 .. We do have some Registries. 16:46:55 .. Question: Do we want to migrate our Registries to the new process? 16:47:02 .. Is that the right question? 16:47:12 Atsushi: Philippe will send that question to Chairs early next week. 16:47:26 .. We could include it in Other Deliverables section. The text is already quite wide. 16:48:30 Cyril: Sorry, I'm not clear on the actions needed to adopt TTAL. 16:48:41 .. I can propose changes to the Charter wording and the Requirements document. 16:48:56 .. Is that all? We could schedule a meeting where I present this work. 16:48:59 Nigel: That's a good idea. 16:49:17 Cyril: I'm going to give a presentation to the EBU Timed Text Group, so if we can do it 16:49:45 .. in 1st meeting December would be good if it's not too late for the Charter. 16:49:57 Nigel: We can widen the Charter now and then adopt the work in WG calls later. 16:50:05 Cyril: Thank you [has to leave the call] 16:50:13 s/has to leave/leaves 16:50:56 Nigel: Back onto Registries, I propose that we say in Other deliverables that the WG will consider migrating Registries. 16:51:07 .. Again, to give us the freedom to make that change later. 16:51:16 .. How does that sound? 16:51:39 Atsushi: I think that works. 16:51:42 Andreas: Yes, sounds good 16:51:46 Nigel: Thanks. 16:52:56 Atsushi: Just a reminder to Chairs please take a look at the message I sent earlier in the week. 16:53:02 .. There are some minor things we need to change. 16:53:23 Nigel: Okay, I don't think I noticed that, let me check. 16:53:41 .. Oh I see, yes, I have it. Okay, I will respond. 16:54:15 .. I think we need to get the Charter finished quite soon to meet the timeline? 16:54:51 Atsushi: HR is running - Accessibility completed and i18n will complete on Tuesday so I hope we can close those reviews 16:54:58 .. and meet the process in a timely manner. 16:55:35 .. We need to finish before going to W3M and have at least 2 more weeks. 16:56:05 Nigel: Am I right in thinking we need to be finished by end of November? 16:56:15 Atsushi: We may be already a bit late for that. 16:56:21 Nigel: I mean before going to W3M 16:56:26 Atsushi: And AC review. 16:56:33 .. AC review should be 4 or 6 weeks. 16:56:38 .. It's already a bit late. 16:57:15 Nigel: I think we should make progress as fast as possible and then if we need 1 month extension on the current charter that is 16:57:18 .. usually granted easily. 16:57:29 Atsushi: Yes, 1 month or 3 month is usually fine. 16:57:38 Nigel: Yes, that's what I understand. Okay. 16:57:55 Topic: Meeting close 16:58:11 Nigel: Thanks everyone, let's adjourn for today. [adjourns meeting] 16:58:29 rrsagent, make minutes 16:58:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/11-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:04:33 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/202 17:04:40 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-tt-minutes.html 17:05:20 s/quite easy to right/quite easy to write 17:07:48 rrsagent, make minutes 17:07:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/11-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:08:41 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:08:44 zakim, end meeting 17:08:44 As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Cyril, Nigel, Pierre, Atsushi 17:08:46 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:08:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/11-tt-minutes.html Zakim 17:08:49 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 17:08:54 Zakim has left #tt 17:25:02 rrsagent, excuse us 17:25:02 I see no action items