15:02:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
15:02:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/09-ixml-irc
15:02:52 <Steven> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:03:00 <Steven> Meeting: ixml Group Teleconference
15:03:26 <Steven> Date:  9 Nov 2021
15:03:40 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:04:20 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Nov/0033.html
15:05:12 <Tom> Tom has joined #ixml
15:12:30 <Steven> Topic: Outstanding Actions
15:12:38 <Steven> ACTION (2021-08-004): Steven to create list of existing requirements,
15:12:38 <Steven> so that we can identify when a new one comes.
15:12:38 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
15:12:49 <Steven> Steven: Mostly done.
15:12:58 <Steven> ACTION (2021-08-005): Tom and MSM to come with a pragma proposal.
15:12:58 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
15:13:09 <Steven> Steven: Continues, ongoing
15:13:53 <Tom> Proposal for pragma: https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/pull/10
15:13:57 <Steven> Tom: THe proposal is being worked up on github. Participation and comments are welcome.
15:14:05 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
15:15:46 <Steven> MSM: The draft works nicely, I feel worried about complicated cases, with big pragmas.
15:16:28 <Steven> ... I can imagine a better proposal, but I'm not sure any such thing exists, or how it would work.
15:17:11 <Steven> ACTION (2021-10-001): Steven to draft a mediatypes proposal (see
15:17:11 <Steven> https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/6).
15:17:11 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
15:17:14 <cmsmcq> cmsmcq has joined #ixml
15:17:31 <Steven> Topic: Status of implementations
15:17:56 <Steven> Steven: I was v happy that the server stayed up during the tutorial
15:19:29 <Steven> Steven: I have rewritten the bootstrap parser, and am rewriting the Earley one, as prep for the C version.
15:20:17 <Steven> Norm: I'm working on one, extending a parser that I have found. On a back burner at the moment.
15:21:19 <Steven> Tom: THe same as usual. Thinking about making progress on JayParser, but nothing new to report
15:21:26 <Steven> s/TH/Th/
15:22:17 <Steven> ... do I rewrite to optimise the levels of recursion, or do I rethink the approach?
15:23:03 <Steven> MSM: Aparecium -- Declarative Amsterdam forced me to work on it. It survived the demos.
15:23:31 <Steven> ... the exercises in the tutorial all worked.
15:23:55 <Steven> ... some debugging still needed.
15:27:08 <Steven> ... I'm focussing on testing.
15:28:53 <Steven> Topic: John's experience
15:29:10 <Steven> John: XPath is an interesting and big testcase.
15:29:25 <Steven> ... I'm converting the EBNF to ixml
15:34:40 <Steven> ... using grammar adjustment to get rid of unwanted intermediate nonterminals
15:36:04 <Steven> ... having a problem with dealing with reserved words.
15:37:28 <Steven> ... is XPath too big of a problem?
15:37:53 <Steven> MSM: I think the grammar is unambiguous, because the keywords are not reserved.
15:38:14 <Steven> ... but Pascal where you have reserved words, you may get ambiguity.
15:38:43 <Steven> ... but ixml doesn't have that problem.
15:39:53 <Steven> MSM: Question about the ! in your example. Cam you escribe it's meaning?
15:40:19 <Steven> s/escribe/describe/
15:40:32 <Steven> MSM: A nice use case for pragmas.
15:41:00 <Steven> John: It takes the first alt, and won't serialise it, but the second does.
15:41:57 <Steven> Topic: Bug reports, change requests, etc.
15:42:14 <Steven> Topic:  Refactoring of grammar
15:42:30 <Steven> MSM: not in github, just a report.
15:43:06 <Steven> Steven: I didn't make the change since your usecase was convinving.
15:43:15 <Steven> ... I made the other changes.
15:43:31 <Steven> Topic:  root rule
15:43:42 <Steven> Steven: I think we decided to keep it as is.
15:43:53 <Steven> Topic:  Strings proposal
15:44:04 <Steven> Steven: Not to allow strings to split over lines.
15:44:08 <Steven> MSM: in favour
15:44:16 <Steven> Steven: Anyone against?
15:44:20 <Steven> [No}
15:44:26 <Steven> Steven: COnsensus.
15:44:34 <Steven> Topic:  Renaming proposal
15:44:52 <Steven> Steven: A future change, but I hear that people have the use case.
15:45:25 <Steven> ... You recognise it with one rule, and serialise with a different name
15:45:44 <Steven> Tom: Pragmas.
15:46:44 <Steven> MSM: A comment on the syntax, (and not with a pragma), the mark being moved to the other end of the nonterminal.
15:47:48 <Steven> Steven: The ^ is followed by the name that will be used for the serialisation.
15:48:16 <Steven> Topic:  Removing ^ from tmark
15:48:31 <Steven> Steven: You were against it.
15:48:56 <Steven> ... It does no harm there, I just don't think it will ever be used ever
15:49:07 <Steven> Tom: I can't care about it.
15:49:22 <Steven> ... Don't fix what ain't broke.
15:49:31 <Steven> Consensus: leave as is.
15:50:03 <Steven> Topic: Testing and Test Suite
15:50:50 <Steven> MSM: A reminder, when we first discussed testsuites, we are all building testcases, it would be nice to exchange cases and build up a suite.
15:51:13 <Steven> ... We agreed to roll our own, and then compare.
15:51:35 <Steven> ... I have some rudimentary documentation.
15:52:29 <Steven> ... I fear that ambiguity complicates the issue.
15:53:57 <Steven> Steven: I have a similar problem with testcases for syntax rrors
15:54:31 <Steven> MSM: My results can have a requirement that the output looks like this, or, there is no parse.
15:54:49 <Steven> ... and there should be another case that the grammar is wrong
15:55:46 <Steven> ... and ambiguity should be treated with more machinery
15:56:22 <Steven> MSM: My documentation: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2021Nov/0031.html
15:57:26 <Steven> Norm: What worked for XProc, we assign unique codes to the errors, and then can identify the error output in an unambiguous way.
15:58:12 <Steven> MSM: How Schema 1.0 was a catastrophe in that respect
15:59:22 <Steven> Norm: Sure, but it may not be so hard with ixml.
16:00:02 <Steven> John: I think there are fewer cases for us.
16:00:21 <Steven> Present: John, Norm, MSM, Tomos, Steven
16:01:14 <Steven> Norm: I volunteer to read the spec, and classify the possible erros
16:01:33 <Steven> ACTION: Norm to classify the error states in the spec
16:01:33 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
16:02:19 <Steven> Topic: Next meeting
16:02:36 <Steven> Tomos: A half hour later please.
16:02:47 <Steven> MSM: 15.30 UTC
16:03:10 <Steven> Tomos: Permanent please
16:03:40 <Steven> Steven: Tues 14 dec
16:04:24 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
16:04:45 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/09-ixml-minutes.html Steven
16:06:20 <Steven> s/Cam you/Can you/
16:06:54 <Steven> s/COnsensus/Consensus
16:09:20 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/09-ixml-minutes.html Steven