13:02:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pronunciation
13:02:54 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-pronunciation-irc
13:02:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:02:57 <PaulG> zakim, agenda?
13:02:57 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:02:58 <Zakim> 4. Other Business [from IrfanAli]
13:02:59 <trackbot> Meeting: Spoken Pronunciation Task Force Teleconference
13:02:59 <trackbot> Date: 03 November 2021
13:03:01 <PaulG> zakim, clear agenda
13:03:02 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:03:12 <PaulG> Agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:03:21 <PaulG> Agenda+ TPAC debrief
13:03:26 <PaulG> Agenda+ GitHub Issues
13:03:32 <PaulG> Agenda+ Other Business
13:59:13 <PaulG> present+
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14:00:38 <IrfanA> zakim, agenda?
14:00:38 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:00:39 <Zakim> 1. Agenda Review & Announcements [from PaulG]
14:00:39 <Zakim> 2. TPAC debrief [from PaulG]
14:00:39 <Zakim> 3. GitHub Issues [from PaulG]
14:00:40 <Zakim> 4. Other Business [from PaulG]
14:00:46 <Alan> present+
14:00:47 <IrfanA> present+
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14:02:18 <Dee> present+
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14:03:15 <NeilS> present+
14:06:33 <janina> present+
14:06:36 <IrfanA> Scribe: IrfanA
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14:06:43 <IrfanA> zakim, next item
14:06:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from PaulG]
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14:06:58 <SteveNoble> present+
14:07:00 <mhakkinen> present+
14:07:14 <IrfanA> PaulG: standard agenda along with GitHub issues. Mostly Debriefing form TPAC
14:07:18 <Roy> present+
14:07:30 <IrfanA> zakim, close this item
14:07:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:07:31 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:07:31 <Zakim> 2. TPAC debrief [from PaulG]
14:07:35 <IrfanA> zakim, next item
14:07:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC debrief -- taken up [from PaulG]
14:08:18 <janina> q+
14:08:41 <IrfanA> PaulG: great experience. especially working with top 5. browser vendors are pretty open to implement without having any preferences.
14:09:22 <IrfanA> PaulG: SSML as a first class object is preference.
14:09:54 <IrfanA> PaulG: let's pick JSON single attribute model.
14:10:08 <IrfanA> PaulG: if anyone has any opinion on this, please share
14:10:16 <PaulG> ack janina
14:10:18 <NeilS> q+
14:10:18 <IrfanA> janina: ack j
14:11:49 <IrfanA> janina: have no problem with Paul's approach. we have smother way to get there. However, if browsers do not care then we need to think whats the best way for authoring perspective. then the tool can transform that into json.
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14:12:11 <JF> Present+
14:12:49 <IrfanA> PaulG: we still have some concerns about the performance and AAPI mapping. once we do, it is still going to take time. in authoring we could have tool such as read a loud or some extension.
14:13:06 <IrfanA> janina: isn't the AX tree a real issue regardless of any approach.
14:14:11 <IrfanA> PaulG: once data gets move to ax tree, its less concern to the technology that is consuming it. only concern is how does that relate to live region or browser updates this info. having the extra layer of pronunciation information there, that not user wants
14:14:25 <IrfanA> PaulG: once you get it to ax tree, fewer people would care
14:15:06 <IrfanA> janina: as far getting stuff whatever ax tree solution we do, there is no difference whether the source is single attribute or multi attribute
14:16:07 <IrfanA> janina: getting it to ax tree there is no performance skip. this is what heard
14:16:18 <IrfanA> ack neils
14:16:47 <mhakkinen> q+
14:17:04 <IrfanA> NeilS: my understanding is the same that it doesn't matter how you author this. I want to bring another alternative that was discuss such as CSS like approach which is particularly useful.
14:17:44 <IrfanA> NeilS: you can always do inline-css if you have bunch of different things. this came someone from TAG and can come up again. it does seems to have an appeal.
14:18:13 <IrfanA> NeilS: I do not remember if it was ever discussed and if it was, why did we drop.
14:18:15 <IrfanA> ack m
14:18:39 <IrfanA> mhakkinen: i agree with Neil. Css was not something came up positive in our gap analysis
14:18:46 <IrfanA> NeilS: this could be something css like
14:19:49 <IrfanA> mhakkinen: one mistake in my mind with the single attr approach was to have an reference of style block or speech block and using it frequently. css was really extra coding. could we come up with some approach which is css like and can be parsed easily.
14:20:07 <IrfanA> NeilS: I am not trying to advocate CSS approach but it does have an appeal.
14:20:35 <IrfanA> PaulG: there was a conversation of dictionary approach which was short sighted. it doesn't solve anything
14:21:04 <IrfanA> PaulG: it was interesting to bring up but it doens't resolve anything other than phoneme
14:22:02 <IrfanA> PaulG: single attr approach does have couple of extra benefits.
14:22:47 <IrfanA> PaulG: because if everything is one logic, i think as an implementation decision, it seems cleaner.
14:23:06 <IrfanA> NeilS: I think thats a good point.
14:23:27 <janina> q+
14:23:50 <IrfanA> PaulG: json as an external resource is easy to parse
14:24:09 <IrfanA> PaulG: which could make our presentation code more useful
14:24:15 <IrfanA> ack j
14:24:46 <IrfanA> janina: playing devils advocate, though I support it.
14:24:57 <IrfanA> janina: where are we in 10-15 years
14:25:10 <IrfanA> janina: how hard is the conversation part. will we still be able to work
14:25:35 <IrfanA> mhakkinen: I'd think that it can be walk back with all the necessary information available
14:25:48 <IrfanA> PaulG: there will be some authoring decisions
14:28:24 <IrfanA> PaulG: unless you use a tool which has only one way to author, this would be like a general appraoch
14:29:00 <IrfanA> janina: what I am hearing that there is path forward which may have more human mediation that you may want but there is a path forward for sure
14:29:56 <IrfanA> PaulG: some people spoke against single attr, they may have some say on this. even if some one is using braille or screen reader to author may have different opinion.
14:30:09 <mhakkinen> q+
14:31:19 <IrfanA> PaulG: ax tree may not need all the information in multi attr case with nested pair. it may not be necessary
14:31:26 <IrfanA> ack m
14:32:20 <IrfanA> mhakkinen: I was going to suggest that we went through some cycle at ETS and updated UI for authoring the ssml pronunciation. perhaps we can have a demo sometimes to show how did we handle this.
14:33:22 <IrfanA> PaulG: may be we will sit on it little bit. Irfan and I will be having a discussion, what should we take it to our presentation in access higher ground conference
14:33:37 <IrfanA> janina: you can certainly quote it as w3c process
14:37:43 <JF> Q+
14:40:41 <IrfanA> ack j
14:41:48 <IrfanA> zakim, next item
14:41:48 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- GitHub Issues -- taken up [from PaulG]
14:42:20 <IrfanA> janina: we could start walking through them and action since we have a little path forward.
14:43:53 <IrfanA> janina: we can close some github, update our document and publish it
14:44:23 <IrfanA> PaulG: next week we come back and see if we still have the same direction to move forward
14:44:38 <IrfanA> PaulG: we can then decide to close some actions
14:45:50 <IrfanA> janina: there is a APA sponsored symposium funded by EU 'Shake the future', next Wednesday. we may need to skip next week and following week.
14:46:05 <IrfanA> PaulG: which means we wont be able to have this meeting until 1st.
14:47:36 <IrfanA> janina: we take next 3 weeks off because of various reasons so we would returned in Dec 1st and take last two weeks off in dec and returned in Jan 2022
14:47:55 <IrfanA> rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-pronunciation-minutes.html IrfanA
14:48:40 <IrfanA> mhakkinen: where is the info for symposium for next wednesday.
14:48:59 <IrfanA> janina: I do not have it right now but we can have it in APA call or need to ask Josh about it
14:49:15 <Roy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/projects/wai-coop/symposium1/
14:49:23 <janina> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/projects/wai-coop/symposium1/
14:50:12 <IrfanA> s\shake\shape
14:51:06 <IrfanA> rrsagent, make min utes
14:51:06 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make min utes', IrfanA.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:51:14 <IrfanA> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-pronunciation-minutes.html IrfanA
14:52:14 <IrfanA> s/shake/shape
14:52:23 <IrfanA> rrsagent, make minutes
14:52:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/03-pronunciation-minutes.html IrfanA
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