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17:57:17 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
17:57:25 <Matt_King> HAIR: Jemma
17:57:33 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Jemma
17:57:36 <Matt_King> present+
17:57:41 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
17:57:53 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
17:57:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/02-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
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18:02:45 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/November-2%2C-2021-Agenda
18:02:52 <Rich_Noah> present+
18:03:11 <Jemma> scribe: Rich
18:03:23 <zcorpan> scribenick: Rich_Noah
18:04:16 <Jemma> Topic:https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1814#issuecomment-954708336
18:04:28 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: we will start going down the issue list.
18:05:03 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I believe PR #1814 is done.
18:05:31 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: I checked Hi Contrast on PC & Mac.  It looks fine.
18:05:45 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: we should raise an issue for the visual design
18:06:03 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: can anyone give a comment on my visual review.
18:06:06 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1814#issuecomment-957008214
18:06:49 <Jemma> Topic: Pull Request #1869: Set aria selected to active tree view item by kdoberst · w3c/aria-practices
18:07:16 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I am confused about this PR and why are we doing this?  Do we want to make this change?
18:08:41 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: we shouldn't make the change if it is not required.
18:08:47 <Jemma> original issue https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1680
18:09:25 <Rich_Noah> sarah_higley: we could change wording or call it a selection thing but only if we add visual style.
18:09:52 <Rich_Noah> sarah_higley: the current wording implies selection
18:10:16 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1869
18:10:39 <Jemma> q+
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18:11:23 <jongund> present+ jongund
18:12:48 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: this is a pretty old issue but I believe we could write a response in that issue.
18:14:21 <Jemma> present+ bryan
18:15:03 <Jemma> present+ Jamesn
18:15:09 <Jemma> present+ sarah
18:15:16 <Jemma> present+ jesdaigle
18:15:22 <Jemma> present+ simon
18:15:45 <Jemma> present+ Markmccarthy
18:18:13 <Jemma> ack jemma
18:20:18 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: i will revisit this myself and comment to propose the future direction.
18:20:28 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: thank you Simon for your work
18:20:44 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: This is now more editorial than anything else
18:21:06 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: I can look at the regression tests tomorrow
18:21:06 <Jemma> Topic: Issue #1267: Combobox Examples: Make compatible with touch-based screen readers · w3c/aria-practices
18:22:00 <Jemma> Topic: Issue #756: Alert Dialog Example: Is disappearing toaster alert WCAG compliant? · w3c/aria-practices
18:22:01 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: so issue 1267 only needs a code review
18:22:49 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: the PR is already reviewed and merged.
18:22:53 <zcorpan> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2086
18:23:48 <zcorpan> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/756
18:26:34 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/756#issuecomment-957037176
18:28:15 <Rich_Noah> sarah_higley: have the message be close to the action.  have the check mark persist until you change it.
18:28:41 <Rich_Noah> sarah_higley: a separate message so no timing issues
18:29:14 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: possible note a message above the button
18:29:44 <Rich_Noah> sarah_higley: it would be on the button itself
18:31:13 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I am thinking about what the accessible name would sound like.  I am thinking a check mark on a button would be hard to announce.
18:31:24 <Jemma> <div role="alert" id="alert_toast" class="toast hidden">Saved</div>
18:32:05 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: it feels more understandable if we separate the button from the status.
18:32:54 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: should this be a live region?
18:34:19 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: we would probably use role alert on the hidden message.  It might create double speaking on some screen readers.
18:35:01 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: do you want to work on this for the milestone?
18:35:18 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: if Howard or Simon have time to work in this it would be great.
18:36:14 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: the off screen element in the dom order prior to the save button
18:36:34 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: why do we want it to use aria-describedby
18:37:07 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: we don't have a screen reader equivalent to the icon
18:37:29 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: yes, this seems like a good change
18:37:46 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: I left some notes on the issue and assigned it to you Simon.
18:38:43 <Rich_Noah> topic: Issue #894: Bug in example menu-button/menu-button-actions-active-descendant.html: tabindex · w3c/aria-practices
18:38:55 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I am going to close that right now, it is done.
18:39:59 <Jemma> topic: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2071
18:40:14 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2071#issuecomment-955813347
18:41:07 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: I looked at the PR and the comments and it seemed like a lot to dive into.  Does someone have any suggestions?
18:41:32 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I feel like this is going to be a lot of brain work to do in the coming weeks.  I want to focus on closing bugs.
18:42:31 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I do think we could get this into the editor's draft prior to the end of the year.
18:42:55 <Rich_Noah> zcorpan: should we merge 2071 as is and treat the change as a follow up?
18:44:16 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I will consider that option.  I want to be careful we don't give guidance to cause people to do things they shouldn't do or not be in line with current practice.  I will re-read it with the idea of what can be done minimally.
18:44:36 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: James and Sarah this might be a good one for you to read.
18:45:00 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: can you share the guidance Matt?
18:46:14 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: the difference between focus and selection is the biggest misunderstanding.  I am thinking about adding the section and selection.
18:46:44 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: we haven't really explained clearly the difference between focus and selection.
18:47:54 <Jemma> Topic: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/2
18:48:32 <zcorpan> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1895
18:48:41 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1895 Jon are you able to take care of this?
18:49:03 <Rich_Noah> jongund: is this a formatting issue primarily?
18:49:10 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1895
18:49:28 <Jemma> This doesn't follow https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Code-Guide#prefixed-properties
18:51:31 <Jemma> just simple linting issue
18:53:03 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: do we agree on removing the prefix property for now?
18:53:33 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: if we can say don't use the vendor prefix unless there is a reason.
18:53:55 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: Jon can you check to see if it is needed for some reason.
18:54:10 <zcorpan> https://caniuse.com/?search=user-select
18:54:57 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1876
18:55:37 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: Jon if you could you provide a review on howard's work.
18:55:55 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1834
18:59:12 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: Jemma can you help on https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1870?
18:59:43 <Matt_King> rrsagent,make minutes
18:59:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/11/02-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
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