IRC log of rdf-star on 2021-10-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:52:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
14:52:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-rdf-star-irc
14:52:26 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:52:27 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
14:52:33 [pchampin]
meeting: RDF-star
14:52:38 [pchampin]
date: 29 Oct. 2021
14:53:01 [pchampin]
agenda: ttps://www.w3.org/mid/dc7349d4-f119-82b1-7728-3fd447b85d8e@ercim.eu
14:53:01 [agendabot]
pchampin, sorry, could not get ttps://www.w3.org/mid/dc7349d4-f119-82b1-7728-3fd447b85d8e@ercim.eu (code 501).
14:53:09 [pchampin]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/mid/dc7349d4-f119-82b1-7728-3fd447b85d8e@ercim.eu
14:53:09 [agendabot]
clear agenda
14:53:09 [agendabot]
agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
14:53:09 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open actions
14:53:09 [agendabot]
agenda+ Pending Pull-Requests
14:53:09 [agendabot]
agenda+ Issue #3: 'conformance' section
14:53:11 [agendabot]
agenda+ WG chartering
14:53:14 [agendabot]
agenda+ Open-ended discussions
14:53:53 [pchampin]
Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-10-15.html
14:53:53 [pchampin]
Next meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-11-12.html
14:54:00 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #rdf-star
14:59:27 [TallTed]
TallTed has joined #rdf-star
15:01:41 [olaf]
olaf has joined #rdf-star
15:01:55 [gatemezing]
gatemezing has joined #rdf-star
15:02:05 [olaf]
present+
15:02:10 [fabio_vitali]
fabio_vitali has joined #rdf-star
15:02:14 [ora]
ora has joined #rdf-star
15:02:19 [fabio_vitali]
Hello
15:02:20 [gatemezing]
present+
15:02:23 [fabio_vitali]
present+
15:02:25 [ora]
present+
15:02:26 [pchampin]
present+
15:02:40 [AndyS]
present+
15:03:27 [TallTed]
present+
15:03:48 [rivettp]
rivettp has joined #rdf-star
15:03:56 [rivettp]
present+
15:04:58 [TallTed]
Zakim, what meeting is this?
15:04:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, TallTed.
15:04:58 [gatemezing]
Scribe: gatemezing
15:05:07 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, what meeting is this?
15:05:07 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'what meeting is this'
15:05:10 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:05:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:33 [gatemezing]
chair: pchampin
15:05:58 [fabio_vitali]
MUCH better
15:06:01 [fabio_vitali]
Thank you
15:06:08 [gatemezing]
Zakim, who is here?
15:06:08 [Zakim]
Present: rivettp, gkellogg, Fabio_Vitali, pchampin, olaf, AndyS, TallTed, Doerthe, gatemezing, ora
15:06:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see rivettp, ora, fabio_vitali, gatemezing, olaf, TallTed, AndyS, RRSAgent, pchampin, driib7, Zakim, rhiaro, agendabot
15:06:14 [pchampin]
q?
15:06:23 [gatemezing]
pchampin: asking for anouncements
15:06:29 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:06:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:06:40 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, make minutes public
15:06:40 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', TallTed. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:06:46 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:06:51 [gatemezing]
...quick one: we'll have our next call in 2 weeks, so take care about the the time changing in Europe
15:07:26 [Doerthe]
Doerthe has joined #rdf-star
15:07:27 [pchampin]
q?
15:07:29 [gatemezing]
...It will be at the usual local time for everyone
15:07:36 [Doerthe]
present+
15:07:41 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:07:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:45 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:07:49 [gatemezing]
pchampin: Asking for any other comments. None. So let's move on
15:08:04 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/211 : improve figure
15:08:13 [gatemezing]
pchampin: Starting with easy ones see issue #211
15:08:57 [gatemezing]
...made some few changes, added links to blocks.
15:08:59 [pchampin]
q?
15:09:26 [gatemezing]
pchampin: no objection to close it. So it's closed.
15:09:33 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/207: marking issues as proposed-later
15:10:03 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169: occurence vocabulary
15:10:12 [gatemezing]
pchampin: marked one on the occurence vocab
15:10:53 [AndyS]
Link without trailing colon: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169
15:11:12 [gatemezing]
pchampin: s/https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169:/https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169
15:11:13 [pchampin]
q?
15:12:02 [TallTed]
q+ to ask what "proposed-later" label means
15:12:24 [gatemezing]
pchampin: RDF-Triples are unique. There is a section in the report targeting occurences, as well as the vocab section
15:12:41 [AndyS]
+1 esp as a likely discussion in the WG so there is only so much that can be done by this team.
15:12:51 [gatemezing]
gatemezing: good question about the semantics of "proposed-later"
15:13:00 [olaf]
q+
15:13:07 [pchampin]
ack TallTed
15:13:07 [Zakim]
TallTed, you wanted to ask what "proposed-later" label means
15:13:22 [gatemezing]
TallTed: What is the proposed-later label means?
15:13:53 [gatemezing]
pchampin: This is a temp label to be submitted to the group as "later'
15:13:56 [pchampin]
q?
15:14:09 [gatemezing]
s/temp/temporary
15:14:20 [pchampin]
ack olaf
15:14:22 [gatemezing]
s/"later'/"later"
15:14:49 [gatemezing]
olaf: Agreed on not adding this on the report
15:14:53 [pchampin]
q?
15:14:57 [gatemezing]
s/this/this discussion
15:15:15 [gatemezing]
gatemezing: no objection as well
15:15:16 [pchampin]
PROPOSAL: mark issue 169 as 'later' (defer to future WG)
15:15:23 [pchampin]
+1
15:15:26 [gatemezing]
+1
15:15:31 [TallTed]
+0
15:15:41 [AndyS]
+1
15:16:02 [fabio_vitali]
+1
15:16:02 [olaf]
+1
15:16:08 [Doerthe]
+1
15:16:12 [ora]
+1
15:16:18 [rivettp]
+1
15:16:32 [pchampin]
RESOLVED: mark issue 169 as 'later' (defer to future WG)
15:17:17 [gatemezing]
pchampin: I'll keep my action open and make the change right now.
15:17:54 [pchampin]
q?
15:18:04 [gatemezing]
pchampin: We have open actions in concrete grammars, moving entailment regimes will be handle in the next agendum
15:18:07 [pchampin]
zakim, next agendum
15:18:07 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Pending Pull-Requests -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:18:23 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pulls
15:18:39 [gatemezing]
pchampin: list of 3 PRs at https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pulls
15:18:46 [gatemezing]
q+
15:19:03 [fabio_vitali]
you guys are too fast for me
15:19:12 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/217 : Metadata
15:19:26 [pchampin]
scribe+
15:19:40 [pchampin]
gatemezing: PR is good for me. Up to you to decide.
15:19:44 [pchampin]
scribe-
15:19:48 [gatemezing]
scribe: gatemezing
15:20:10 [olaf]
Fabio, too fast in what sense?
15:20:35 [gatemezing]
pchampin: saw TallTed idea to avoid having the generated files in the repo.
15:20:51 [pchampin]
q?
15:20:56 [gatemezing]
q-
15:21:40 [pchampin]
q?
15:21:42 [fabio_vitali]
@olaf: it takes three-four seconds for me to click on the link, read the topic and try to form an opinion, and you are already discussing the next one
15:22:14 [fabio_vitali]
not complaining, just noting
15:22:55 [pchampin]
q?
15:22:57 [gatemezing]
pchampin: Please fabio_vitali do not hesitate to stop the chairs when they go faster
15:23:20 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/215 : TEPs and RDF-star vocab
15:23:38 [gatemezing]
pchampin: Turn to TEPs (Transparency Enabling Properties)
15:24:34 [fabio_vitali]
Stupid questions: why the plural? Why are there properties instead of a single one?
15:24:39 [gatemezing]
... we have now a formal semantics, included IRIs for TPEs,
15:24:44 [fabio_vitali]
Stupid question: why the plural? Why are there properties instead of a single one?
15:25:19 [fabio_vitali]
thank you
15:25:29 [pchampin]
q?
15:26:14 [pchampin]
q?
15:26:14 [gatemezing]
pchampin: proposed to finish the discussion on-line and merge if there is a consensus
15:27:07 [gatemezing]
pchampin: olaf is suggesting to change the orders of some sections https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/215#issuecomment-954706145
15:27:35 [pchampin]
https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/215.html#ref-opacity
15:27:50 [gatemezing]
olaf: It's not a strong opinion
15:28:04 [pchampin]
scribe+
15:28:45 [pchampin]
olaf proposal: reorder subsubsections as follow: referential opacity, alternatives to ref opacity, TEPs
15:28:47 [gatemezing]
pchampin: I hear olaf as if he is far from his phone?!
15:29:38 [pchampin]
q?
15:30:13 [pchampin]
regrets: gkellogg
15:30:21 [gatemezing]
scribe: gatemezing
15:30:35 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/218 : full EBNF of syntaxes
15:32:23 [pchampin]
scribe-
15:32:26 [pchampin]
q?
15:32:30 [gatemezing]
pchampin: the idea is to have this PR in the html document in the appendices
15:32:55 [gatemezing]
...once the technical issue is solved, this would be nice to have in the repor
15:33:04 [gatemezing]
s/repor/report
15:33:08 [pchampin]
q?
15:33:17 [gatemezing]
...this PR is also good to be merged
15:34:17 [gatemezing]
pchampin: Chartering of the WG will take time anyway
15:34:25 [pchampin]
zakim, agenda
15:34:25 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agenda', pchampin
15:34:46 [pchampin]
zakim, open agendum 5
15:34:46 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- WG chartering -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:34:50 [pchampin]
q?
15:35:01 [pchampin]
https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/
15:35:19 [TallTed]
Zakim, agenda?
15:35:19 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:35:20 [Zakim]
3. Pending Pull-Requests [from agendabot]
15:35:20 [Zakim]
4. Issue #3: 'conformance' section [from agendabot]
15:35:20 [Zakim]
5. WG chartering [from agendabot]
15:35:20 [Zakim]
6. Open-ended discussions [from agendabot]
15:35:30 [gatemezing]
pchampin: The repo for the charter is on github
15:36:15 [TallTed]
Zakim, close agendum 3
15:36:15 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Pending Pull-Requests, closed
15:36:16 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:36:16 [Zakim]
4. Issue #3: 'conformance' section [from agendabot]
15:36:35 [gatemezing]
... the new W3C WG will chartered a family of RDF and SPARQL documents
15:37:23 [gatemezing]
...there is still open questions regarding additional features w.r.t. W3C process to avoid all rounds of the normal process,
15:37:54 [gatemezing]
...making it lighter even if it can raised issues on stability and implementations
15:37:59 [pchampin]
q?
15:38:31 [rivettp]
has anyone given any thought to including SHACL in the scope of the "family"?
15:39:00 [gatemezing]
...one of the question not yet adressed is that probably I will be the W3C point contact
15:39:11 [gatemezing]
...so I could not continue as chair if that happens
15:39:44 [gatemezing]
...We need to identify potential chair(s) to be involved in the charter
15:40:39 [AndyS]
q+
15:40:45 [pchampin]
ack AndyS
15:40:52 [gatemezing]
pchampin: including SHACL? the maturity of the REC, the timing problem and even logistic issues
15:40:54 [TallTed]
q+ to suggest listing SHACL-star (and possibly other things not yet discussed) as an optional stretch goal
15:41:15 [gatemezing]
AndyS: Agreed not including SHACL
15:41:35 [pchampin]
ack TallTed
15:41:35 [Zakim]
TallTed, you wanted to suggest listing SHACL-star (and possibly other things not yet discussed) as an optional stretch goal
15:41:40 [gatemezing]
...but it manages to handle it, that's great
15:42:39 [gatemezing]
TallTed: Listing it at least in the draft, even if it is not tackle could be fair
15:43:13 [gatemezing]
pchampin: Not putting it as requirement, but indeed include it
15:43:15 [pchampin]
q?
15:43:49 [gatemezing]
AndyS: suggested to propose to write something around that in the document. Thanks AndyS !
15:45:15 [gatemezing]
pchampin: This remind me the JSON-LD CG vs RDF WG
15:46:57 [gatemezing]
TallTed: The difference here is that SHACL exists compare to the situation some years ago with JSON-LD (not existing at the time)
15:47:13 [ora]
q+
15:47:17 [pchampin]
ack ora
15:48:09 [gatemezing]
ora: anybody working on xxxxxx?
15:48:17 [ora]
R2RML
15:48:18 [olaf]
RML-star
15:48:28 [pchampin]
s/xxxxxs/R2RML-star/
15:48:36 [pchampin]
s/xxxxxx/R2RML-star/
15:48:43 [pchampin]
q?
15:49:11 [ora]
q+
15:49:17 [pchampin]
ack ora
15:49:42 [olaf]
"RML-star: A Declarative Mapping Language for RDF-star Generation" by Thomas Delva, Julián Arenas-Guerrero, Ana Iglesias-Molina, Oscar Corcho, David Chaves-Fraga, Anastasia Dimou
15:49:52 [olaf]
http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-2980/paper374.pdf
15:52:20 [ora]
:-)
15:52:33 [pchampin]
q?
15:52:46 [TallTed]
s|s/xxxxxx/R2RML-star/| |
15:53:19 [TallTed]
s|/R2RML-star/|/RML-star/|
15:53:24 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:53:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:54:18 [pchampin]
q?
15:54:21 [gatemezing]
pchampin: let's think about some names for the next calls
15:56:59 [pchampin]
q?
15:57:13 [gatemezing]
Zakim, who is here?
15:57:13 [Zakim]
Present: rivettp, gkellogg, Fabio_Vitali, pchampin, olaf, AndyS, TallTed, Doerthe, gatemezing, ora
15:57:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Doerthe, rivettp, ora, fabio_vitali, gatemezing, olaf, TallTed, AndyS, RRSAgent, pchampin, driib7, Zakim, rhiaro, agendabot
15:57:27 [gatemezing]
pchampin: conformance section should have to wait
15:57:36 [gatemezing]
...I suggest to discuss it in the next call
15:57:49 [pchampin]
q?
15:58:09 [fabio_vitali]
thank you
15:58:16 [gatemezing]
pchampin: thanks everyone
15:58:31 [gatemezing]
...find some names for future chairs
15:58:34 [TallTed]
11/11 == US Veterans Day, UK Remembrance Day. Not typically a day off.
15:58:34 [Doerthe]
bye
15:58:38 [gatemezing]
bye
15:58:39 [AndyS]
bye
15:58:48 [ora]
bye
15:59:01 [olaf]
olaf has left #rdf-star