14:52:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
14:52:24 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-rdf-star-irc
14:52:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:52:27 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
14:52:33 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star
14:52:38 <pchampin> date: 29 Oct. 2021
14:53:01 <pchampin> agenda: ttps://www.w3.org/mid/dc7349d4-f119-82b1-7728-3fd447b85d8e@ercim.eu
14:53:01 <agendabot> pchampin, sorry, could not get ttps://www.w3.org/mid/dc7349d4-f119-82b1-7728-3fd447b85d8e@ercim.eu (code 501).
14:53:09 <pchampin> agenda: https://www.w3.org/mid/dc7349d4-f119-82b1-7728-3fd447b85d8e@ercim.eu
14:53:09 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:53:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Announcements and newcomers
14:53:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Open actions
14:53:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Pull-Requests
14:53:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue #3: 'conformance' section
14:53:11 <agendabot> agenda+ WG chartering
14:53:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Open-ended discussions
14:53:53 <pchampin> Previous meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-10-15.html
14:53:53 <pchampin> Next meeting: https://w3c.github.io/rdf-star/Minutes/2021-11-12.html
14:54:00 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-star
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15:01:41 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
15:01:55 <gatemezing> gatemezing has joined #rdf-star
15:02:05 <olaf> present+
15:02:10 <fabio_vitali> fabio_vitali has joined #rdf-star
15:02:14 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
15:02:19 <fabio_vitali> Hello
15:02:20 <gatemezing> present+
15:02:23 <fabio_vitali> present+
15:02:25 <ora> present+
15:02:26 <pchampin> present+
15:02:40 <AndyS> present+
15:03:27 <TallTed> present+
15:03:48 <rivettp> rivettp has joined #rdf-star
15:03:56 <rivettp> present+
15:04:58 <TallTed> Zakim, what meeting is this?
15:04:58 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, TallTed.
15:04:58 <gatemezing> Scribe: gatemezing
15:05:07 <TallTed> RRSAgent, what meeting is this?
15:05:07 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'what meeting is this'
15:05:10 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:05:10 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements and newcomers -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:33 <gatemezing> chair: pchampin
15:05:58 <fabio_vitali> MUCH better
15:06:01 <fabio_vitali> Thank you
15:06:08 <gatemezing> Zakim, who is here?
15:06:08 <Zakim> Present: rivettp, gkellogg, Fabio_Vitali, pchampin, olaf, AndyS, TallTed, Doerthe, gatemezing, ora
15:06:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see rivettp, ora, fabio_vitali, gatemezing, olaf, TallTed, AndyS, RRSAgent, pchampin, driib7, Zakim, rhiaro, agendabot
15:06:14 <pchampin> q?
15:06:23 <gatemezing> pchampin: asking for anouncements
15:06:29 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:06:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:06:40 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make minutes public
15:06:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', TallTed.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:06:46 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:06:51 <gatemezing> ...quick one: we'll have our next call in 2 weeks, so take care about the the time changing in Europe
15:07:26 <Doerthe> Doerthe has joined #rdf-star
15:07:27 <pchampin> q?
15:07:29 <gatemezing> ...It will be at the usual local time for everyone
15:07:36 <Doerthe> present+
15:07:41 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:07:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Open actions -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:07:45 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction
15:07:49 <gatemezing> pchampin: Asking for any other comments. None. So let's move on
15:08:04 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/211 : improve figure
15:08:13 <gatemezing> pchampin: Starting with easy ones see issue #211
15:08:57 <gatemezing> ...made some few changes, added links to blocks.
15:08:59 <pchampin> q?
15:09:26 <gatemezing> pchampin: no objection to close it. So it's closed.
15:09:33 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/207: marking issues as proposed-later
15:10:03 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169: occurence vocabulary
15:10:12 <gatemezing> pchampin: marked one on the occurence vocab
15:10:53 <AndyS> Link without trailing colon:  https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169
15:11:12 <gatemezing> pchampin: s/https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169:/https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/169
15:11:13 <pchampin> q?
15:12:02 <TallTed> q+ to ask what "proposed-later" label means
15:12:24 <gatemezing> pchampin: RDF-Triples are unique. There is a section in the report targeting occurences, as well as the vocab section
15:12:41 <AndyS> +1 esp as a likely discussion in the WG so there is only so much that can be done by this team.
15:12:51 <gatemezing> gatemezing: good question about the semantics of "proposed-later"
15:13:00 <olaf> q+
15:13:07 <pchampin> ack TallTed
15:13:07 <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to ask what "proposed-later" label means
15:13:22 <gatemezing> TallTed: What is the proposed-later label means?
15:13:53 <gatemezing> pchampin: This is a temp label to be submitted to the group as "later'
15:13:56 <pchampin> q?
15:14:09 <gatemezing> s/temp/temporary
15:14:20 <pchampin> ack olaf
15:14:22 <gatemezing> s/"later'/"later"
15:14:49 <gatemezing> olaf: Agreed on not adding this on the report
15:14:53 <pchampin> q?
15:14:57 <gatemezing> s/this/this discussion
15:15:15 <gatemezing> gatemezing: no objection as well
15:15:16 <pchampin> PROPOSAL: mark issue 169 as 'later' (defer to future WG)
15:15:23 <pchampin> +1
15:15:26 <gatemezing> +1
15:15:31 <TallTed> +0
15:15:41 <AndyS> +1
15:16:02 <fabio_vitali> +1
15:16:02 <olaf> +1
15:16:08 <Doerthe> +1
15:16:12 <ora> +1
15:16:18 <rivettp> +1
15:16:32 <pchampin> RESOLVED: mark issue 169 as 'later' (defer to future WG)
15:17:17 <gatemezing> pchampin: I'll keep my action open and make the change right now.
15:17:54 <pchampin> q?
15:18:04 <gatemezing> pchampin: We have open actions in concrete grammars, moving entailment regimes will be handle in the next agendum
15:18:07 <pchampin> zakim, next agendum
15:18:07 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Pending Pull-Requests -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:18:23 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pulls
15:18:39 <gatemezing> pchampin: list of 3 PRs at https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pulls
15:18:46 <gatemezing> q+
15:19:03 <fabio_vitali> you guys are too fast for me
15:19:12 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/217 : Metadata
15:19:26 <pchampin> scribe+
15:19:40 <pchampin> gatemezing: PR is good for me. Up to you to decide.
15:19:44 <pchampin> scribe-
15:19:48 <gatemezing> scribe: gatemezing
15:20:10 <olaf> Fabio, too fast in what sense?
15:20:35 <gatemezing> pchampin: saw TallTed idea to avoid having the generated files in the repo.
15:20:51 <pchampin> q?
15:20:56 <gatemezing> q-
15:21:40 <pchampin> q?
15:21:42 <fabio_vitali> @olaf: it takes three-four seconds for me to click on the link, read the topic and try to form an opinion, and you are already discussing the next one
15:22:14 <fabio_vitali> not complaining, just noting
15:22:55 <pchampin> q?
15:22:57 <gatemezing> pchampin: Please fabio_vitali do not hesitate to stop the chairs when they go faster
15:23:20 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/215 : TEPs and RDF-star vocab
15:23:38 <gatemezing> pchampin: Turn to TEPs (Transparency Enabling Properties)
15:24:34 <fabio_vitali> Stupid questions: why the plural? Why are there properties instead of a single one?
15:24:39 <gatemezing> ... we have now a formal semantics, included IRIs for TPEs,
15:24:44 <fabio_vitali> Stupid question: why the plural? Why are there properties instead of a single one?
15:25:19 <fabio_vitali> thank you
15:25:29 <pchampin> q?
15:26:14 <pchampin> q?
15:26:14 <gatemezing> pchampin: proposed to finish the discussion on-line and merge if there is a consensus
15:27:07 <gatemezing> pchampin: olaf is suggesting to change the orders of some sections https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/215#issuecomment-954706145
15:27:35 <pchampin> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/215.html#ref-opacity
15:27:50 <gatemezing> olaf: It's not a strong opinion
15:28:04 <pchampin> scribe+
15:28:45 <pchampin> olaf proposal: reorder subsubsections as follow: referential opacity, alternatives to ref opacity, TEPs
15:28:47 <gatemezing> pchampin: I hear olaf as if he is far from his phone?!
15:29:38 <pchampin> q?
15:30:13 <pchampin> regrets: gkellogg
15:30:21 <gatemezing> scribe: gatemezing
15:30:35 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/pull/218 : full EBNF of syntaxes
15:32:23 <pchampin> scribe-
15:32:26 <pchampin> q?
15:32:30 <gatemezing> pchampin: the idea is to have this PR in the html document in the appendices
15:32:55 <gatemezing> ...once the technical issue is solved, this would be nice to have in the repor
15:33:04 <gatemezing> s/repor/report
15:33:08 <pchampin> q?
15:33:17 <gatemezing> ...this PR is also good to be merged
15:34:17 <gatemezing> pchampin: Chartering of the WG will take time anyway
15:34:25 <pchampin> zakim, agenda
15:34:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', pchampin
15:34:46 <pchampin> zakim, open agendum 5
15:34:46 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- WG chartering -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:34:50 <pchampin> q?
15:35:01 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/
15:35:19 <TallTed> Zakim, agenda?
15:35:19 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:35:20 <Zakim> 3. Pending Pull-Requests [from agendabot]
15:35:20 <Zakim> 4. Issue #3: 'conformance' section [from agendabot]
15:35:20 <Zakim> 5. WG chartering [from agendabot]
15:35:20 <Zakim> 6. Open-ended discussions [from agendabot]
15:35:30 <gatemezing> pchampin: The repo for the charter is on github
15:36:15 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 3
15:36:15 <Zakim> agendum 3, Pending Pull-Requests, closed
15:36:16 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:36:16 <Zakim> 4. Issue #3: 'conformance' section [from agendabot]
15:36:35 <gatemezing> ... the new W3C WG will chartered a family of RDF and SPARQL documents
15:37:23 <gatemezing> ...there is still open questions regarding additional features w.r.t. W3C process to avoid all rounds of the normal process,
15:37:54 <gatemezing> ...making it lighter even if it can raised issues on stability and implementations
15:37:59 <pchampin> q?
15:38:31 <rivettp> has anyone given any thought to including SHACL in the scope of the "family"?
15:39:00 <gatemezing> ...one of the question not yet adressed is that probably I will be the W3C point contact
15:39:11 <gatemezing> ...so I could not continue as chair if that happens
15:39:44 <gatemezing> ...We need to identify potential chair(s) to be involved in the charter
15:40:39 <AndyS> q+
15:40:45 <pchampin> ack AndyS
15:40:52 <gatemezing> pchampin: including SHACL? the maturity of the REC, the timing problem and even logistic issues
15:40:54 <TallTed> q+ to suggest listing SHACL-star (and possibly other things not yet discussed) as an optional stretch goal
15:41:15 <gatemezing> AndyS: Agreed not including SHACL
15:41:35 <pchampin> ack TallTed
15:41:35 <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to suggest listing SHACL-star (and possibly other things not yet discussed) as an optional stretch goal
15:41:40 <gatemezing> ...but it manages to handle it, that's great
15:42:39 <gatemezing> TallTed: Listing it at least in the draft, even if it is not tackle could be fair
15:43:13 <gatemezing> pchampin: Not putting it as requirement, but indeed include it
15:43:15 <pchampin> q?
15:43:49 <gatemezing> AndyS: suggested to propose to write something around that in the document. Thanks AndyS !
15:45:15 <gatemezing> pchampin: This remind me the JSON-LD CG vs RDF WG
15:46:57 <gatemezing> TallTed: The difference here is that SHACL exists compare to the situation some years ago with JSON-LD (not existing at the time)
15:47:13 <ora> q+
15:47:17 <pchampin> ack ora
15:48:09 <gatemezing> ora: anybody working on xxxxxx?
15:48:17 <ora> R2RML
15:48:18 <olaf> RML-star
15:48:28 <pchampin> s/xxxxxs/R2RML-star/
15:48:36 <pchampin> s/xxxxxx/R2RML-star/
15:48:43 <pchampin> q?
15:49:11 <ora> q+
15:49:17 <pchampin> ack ora
15:49:42 <olaf> "RML-star: A Declarative Mapping Language for RDF-star Generation" by Thomas Delva, Julián Arenas-Guerrero, Ana Iglesias-Molina, Oscar Corcho, David Chaves-Fraga, Anastasia Dimou
15:49:52 <olaf> http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-2980/paper374.pdf
15:52:20 <ora> :-)
15:52:33 <pchampin> q?
15:52:46 <TallTed> s|s/xxxxxx/R2RML-star/| |
15:53:19 <TallTed> s|/R2RML-star/|/RML-star/|
15:53:24 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:53:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/29-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
15:54:18 <pchampin> q?
15:54:21 <gatemezing> pchampin: let's think about some names for the next calls
15:56:59 <pchampin> q?
15:57:13 <gatemezing> Zakim, who is here?
15:57:13 <Zakim> Present: rivettp, gkellogg, Fabio_Vitali, pchampin, olaf, AndyS, TallTed, Doerthe, gatemezing, ora
15:57:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see Doerthe, rivettp, ora, fabio_vitali, gatemezing, olaf, TallTed, AndyS, RRSAgent, pchampin, driib7, Zakim, rhiaro, agendabot
15:57:27 <gatemezing> pchampin: conformance section should have to wait
15:57:36 <gatemezing> ...I suggest to discuss it in the next call
15:57:49 <pchampin> q?
15:58:09 <fabio_vitali> thank you
15:58:16 <gatemezing> pchampin: thanks everyone
15:58:31 <gatemezing> ...find some names for future chairs
15:58:34 <TallTed> 11/11 == US Veterans Day, UK Remembrance Day.  Not typically a day off.
15:58:34 <Doerthe> bye
15:58:38 <gatemezing> bye
15:58:39 <AndyS> bye
15:58:48 <ora> bye
15:59:01 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star