IRC log of project-fugu on 2021-10-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

07:12:45 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/21-project-fugu-irc
07:12:48 [dom]
RRSAgent, stay
07:12:51 [dom]
RRSAgent, make log public
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14:47:54 [tomayac]
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14:48:18 [tomayac]
Hey folks! The call is gonna happen in 12min on https://zoom.us/j/99737295069?pwd=MHJMMGVXNEYweUdJdFEvdFQ2cXZSZz09.
14:51:20 [Kenneth]
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14:51:33 [Kenneth]
Hello breakout fishies
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15:04:28 [JohnJansen]
present+
15:04:49 [rakuco]
present+
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15:25:12 [aleventhal]
Does WebKit have a concern about the API even when used in a PWA?
15:30:29 [zkis_]
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15:32:12 [gsnedders1]
Can we also stop the live transcription, given that's also recorded?
15:34:33 [rakuco]
tidoust: ^
15:34:48 [scheib]
Notes for discussion, All, please help.
15:35:14 [scheib]
aaron leventhal, asking about permissions and if install signal helps users understand that a web app can do more
15:35:19 [scheib]
... has there been user research?
15:35:45 [scheib]
Alex Russell notes that there has been some research, but often narrowly done
15:35:55 [scheib]
... there are multiple browsers with different approaches
15:36:03 [scheib]
... api shapes are designed to enable different approaches
15:37:09 [scheib]
cyns: User Research: curious how much has been done, what more can be done
15:37:33 [scheib]
... investigate how users think about PWAs
15:37:38 [scheib]
... are they apps, web sites, etc...
15:38:45 [jungkees]
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15:39:02 [scheib]
... e.g. with accessibility, users often have concerns around privacy
15:39:28 [scheib]
... desktop apps have capabilities that users typically accept, where they have reservations if web sites could do the same.
15:40:18 [scheib]
Alex R: We have kept most of the capabilities behind dedicated permission prompts
15:40:26 [scheib]
... available in an installed state and tab
15:40:34 [scheib]
... should have dedicated treatment per permission
15:44:27 [scheib]
Vincent Scheib: There is research about permissions
15:44:45 [scheib]
... e.g. types of permissions, permission fatigue, permission understanding
15:45:15 [scheib]
... Chrome has tried to avoid 'allow/deny' permissions when a chooser or selection permission can work.
15:45:37 [scheib]
Reilly Grant: Unaware of the intersection of install + permissions
15:45:39 [Laura__]
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15:46:23 [scheib]
... believe we should be wary of tying permissions to install. Don't want incentives to "get X by first doing Y"
15:46:46 [scheib]
Zoltan Kis: There are web apps installed from stores
15:47:03 [scheib]
John Jansen: Microsoft Store
15:47:20 [scheib]
... apps are denoted as being powered by Edge
15:47:31 [scheib]
... not clear if users understand that these apps are "just a webpage"
15:47:53 [scheib]
... treatment of a PWA when installed via store vs from browser?
15:48:01 [scheib]
... case study: ride sharing app
15:48:16 [scheib]
... from a store, it seems fair to presume location access is desired
15:48:30 [scheib]
... but should that allow a web site to have location?
15:49:13 [scheib]
Zoltan Kis: Experiments with a control bar?
15:49:54 [scheib]
Kenneth Christianson: Chrome does this for at least some permissions, showing what permissions are in place?
15:50:28 [scheib]
FYI 30 participants at this point
15:50:52 [scheib]
Tom Steiner: There are discussions around:
15:51:03 [scheib]
... declaring multiple permissions upfront
15:51:10 [scheib]
... time-boxing permissions
15:52:11 [scheib]
Reilly Grant: Many users seek applications in store
15:53:04 [scheib]
... (Note taker lost audio...!)
15:57:56 [scheib]
... (Note taker maybe is back...)
15:58:55 [scheib]
Assitive technologies
16:09:32 [tomayac]
The deck with all the links if people want to follow along: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1n0a7pVqmFcBALXqf4vJzZBB_fj84yfHVDcaiyMk-lZk/edit?usp=sharing
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