19:53:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:53:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-irc
19:53:14 <Caroline_> rrsagent, make logs public
19:53:18 <Caroline_> Chair: Caroline_
19:56:49 <kcoyle> kcoyle has joined #dxwg
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20:00:41 <Caroline_> Present+
20:01:27 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
20:02:01 <AndreaPerego> zakim, start meeting
20:02:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
20:02:02 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndreaPerego
20:02:18 <AndreaPerego> meeting: DXWG Plenary
20:02:26 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2021.10.19
20:02:28 <kcoyle> present+
20:02:35 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
20:02:42 <AndreaPerego> present+
20:02:50 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:02:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:03:32 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ DaveBrowning
20:03:33 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:03:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:04:48 <Ana> Ana has joined #dxwg
20:07:07 <kcoyle> scribenick: kcoyle
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20:07:18 <annette_g> present+
20:07:35 <Caroline_> https://www.w3.org/2021/09/21-dxwg-minutes
20:07:41 <kcoyle> propose: accept minutes of Sept 21
20:07:59 <riccardoAlbertoni> 0 (i was not there)
20:08:03 <kcoyle> +1
20:08:03 <Caroline_> +1
20:08:09 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:08:14 <Ana> +1
20:08:14 <annette_g> +1
20:08:35 <Caroline_> s/+1/0
20:09:10 <Caroline_> 0 (wasn't there)
20:09:17 <annette_g> +1 for real
20:09:23 <kcoyle> resolved: accept minutes of September 21
20:09:26 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:09:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:09:59 <AndreaPerego> topic: WG video @ TPAC
20:10:09 <kcoyle> Caroline_: Pwinstanley did video for tpac
20:10:25 <kcoyle> ... video is highlights
20:10:25 <riccardoAlbertoni> The video was good! Thanks peter and all the people involved
20:10:29 <Caroline_> https://www.w3.org/2021/10/w3c-highlights/
20:10:37 <dsr> dsr has joined #dxwg
20:11:30 <kcoyle> topic: DCAT meeting
20:11:49 <kcoyle> riccardoAlbertoni: it was only Andrea and I
20:12:09 <kcoyle> ... discussed need to publish the working draft asap
20:12:28 <kcoyle> ... needed to attract attention from people outside of the group
20:12:59 <kcoyle> ... want feedback on inverse properties; we entered period of moratorium of TPAC
20:13:16 <kcoyle> ... use this time to finalize document details
20:14:09 <kcoyle> ... needs change history in document; proposal on inverse properties to standardize on one direction
20:14:29 <kcoyle> ... and that would be the preferred usage
20:15:20 <kcoyle> ... second aspect is planning for DCAT; if we publish recommendation by February
20:15:36 <kcoyle> ... we need to be ready by beginning of November
20:15:45 <kcoyle> ... this could have an impact on the next charter
20:16:31 <kcoyle> .... or we could have candidate rec in Feb for publication in May
20:17:32 <kcoyle> ... haven't yet discussed this schedule with the other editors
20:18:22 <kcoyle> Caroline_: thank you for that; I think we need to promote more to get more feedback
20:18:26 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
20:18:47 <Caroline_> ack riccardoAlbertoni
20:19:01 <kcoyle> riccardoAlbertoni: I suggest to deliver the next draft and then do promotion; this draft will clarify some issues
20:19:36 <kcoyle> ... e.g. what is the main focus we want to deliver this time? we think inverse properties and versioning
20:20:01 <kcoyle> ... we need to complete these to have a recommendation; people are waiting for it
20:20:31 <kcoyle> Caroline_: suggest next draft in November, get feedback by end of January; could publish in February
20:20:52 <kcoyle> riccardoAlbertoni: yes, although depends on the comments we receive
20:21:00 <kcoyle> q+
20:21:14 <Caroline_> ack kcoyle
20:21:31 <Caroline_> kcoyle: based on the working I am doing on Dublin Core
20:21:45 <Caroline_> ... so far there hasn't been much implementations on DCAP
20:21:49 <Caroline_> s/DCAP/DCAT
20:22:13 <Caroline_> ... it would be good to look at some people's data and see what they are doing
20:22:25 <Caroline_> ... should be good to bring more people on board
20:22:45 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
20:22:53 <Caroline_> ... I would appreciate help to understand the DCAT AP
20:23:08 <Caroline_> ... emphasis on implementation
20:23:09 <Caroline_> ack riccardoAlbertoni
20:23:41 <Caroline_> riccardoAlbertoni: there is a list of implementation for DCAT 2
20:23:54 <Caroline_> kcoyle: I want to see how people are using the data
20:24:19 <kcoyle> riccardoAlbertoni: we can discuss specific implementations; which are realized, which not yet
20:24:22 <Caroline_> riccardoAlbertoni: we may review the implementation for DCAT 3
20:24:30 <annette_g> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat-implementation-report/
20:24:43 <kcoyle> ... some implementations are APs
20:25:13 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:26:08 <Caroline_> kcoyle: I am trying to aply that in the Application Profile work at Dublin Core
20:26:24 <Caroline_> ack AndreaPerego
20:26:39 <AndreaPerego> Section on catalogs using DCAT: https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat-implementation-report/#data-catalogs
20:27:14 <dsr> dsr has joined #dxwg
20:28:47 <AndreaPerego> Report on DCAT-AP use: https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/collection/semantic-interoperability-community-semic/solution/dcat-application-profile-data-portals-europe/document/report-dcat-ap-use
20:30:37 <Caroline_> kcoyle: the diagram for DCAT AP has things like DCAT Catalog Class and a number of propreties and links to the FOAF agent. In triples you can't go to a class from a class and I can't figure out which the turtle subjects are
20:30:49 <Caroline_> ... there is nothing to tell how you connect a catalog to a agent
20:33:00 <AndreaPerego> An example of DCAT record from the European Data Portal: https://data.europa.eu/api/hub/repo/datasets/gzijqvqvdcx3avo3oxnzw.ttl?useNormalizedId=true&locale=en
20:33:22 <AndreaPerego> The corresponding dataset page: https://data.europa.eu/data/datasets/gzijqvqvdcx3avo3oxnzw?locale=en
20:35:14 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: there is a section in the implementation report; often with endpoints and apis
20:35:48 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: there is shacl definition of dcat-ap; new version in github
20:36:05 <AndreaPerego> SHACL definition for DCAT-AP: https://github.com/SEMICeu/DCAT-AP/tree/master/releases/2.0.1
20:37:07 <kcoyle> ... there are 3 files of shacl definitions; 1 - is control vocabularies; so you can load the shacl documents separately
20:38:17 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:38:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:38:26 <kcoyle> Caroline_: topic: TPAC & next charter; bring ideas for next charter to TPAC
20:38:57 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:38:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:39:42 <riccardoAlbertoni> is there a draft we are considering as Charter?
20:40:31 <kcoyle> Caroline_: TPAC meeting Oct 26, same time as this meeting; one hour
20:42:03 <kcoyle> ... I suggest a strategy of working group promotion - write a short text, and send to others to ask to join our discussion
20:42:21 <kcoyle> ... and even to our working group members who are no longer active
20:42:30 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:42:37 <Caroline_> ack AndreaPerego
20:43:16 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: my feeling is that DCAT is used but is addressing things as of 2014; things are different now
20:43:30 <Caroline_> Regrets+ DaveBrowning; antoine
20:43:43 <kcoyle> ... more platforms now; would a quantum leap be possible?
20:44:06 <kcoyle> ... should be put in agenda: what if? what if we were just starting now, how would we do DCAT today?
20:44:44 <kcoyle> ... we have some contributions that were once out of scope; perhaps we need to change the scope
20:45:09 <kcoyle> ... not just catalog datasets; but we have no feedback on such an idea for the future of DCAT
20:45:14 <annette_g> q+
20:45:31 <kcoyle> Caroline_: would this mean new use cases?
20:45:55 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: first we need to know what direction we are going in; it started with a
20:46:19 <kcoyle> ... workshop with brainstorming. could this tpac meeting be a trigger for that kind of thinking?
20:46:25 <Caroline_> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/
20:46:40 <Caroline_> ack annette_g
20:46:57 <kcoyle> annette_g: I'm looking at TPAC agenda, and wondering how we get on the list
20:47:26 <kcoyle> ... some groups link to an agenda; we should create one; would get more interest
20:47:31 <annette_g> TPAC groups agenda: https://web-eur.cvent.com/event/2b77fe3d-2536-467d-b71b-969b2e6419b5/websitePage:efc4b117-4ea4-4be5-97b4-c521ce3a06db
20:48:21 <kcoyle> Caroline_: I like Andrea's suggestion; may be hard to do it in one hour; do a short intro
20:48:33 <kcoyle> ... to the group, throw out some ideas, then brainstorm
20:49:05 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: casting a stone into a quiet pool; we are looking for input for "disruption" and change
20:49:50 <Caroline_> https://ideaboardz.com/
20:50:01 <kcoyle> Caroline_: we could prepare some questions
20:51:10 <kcoyle> ... we may be able to get more ideas with specific questions; what are the challenges, not just how should it change?
20:51:30 <annette_g> +1 to Caroline_ !
20:52:02 <AndreaPerego> Maybe use https://www.sli.do/
20:53:11 <kcoyle> ... interactive choices; gives you some data on the replies; you can have options to choose from
20:53:53 <kcoyle> ... good for feedback; it's lightweight and quick; you can do it on the fly
20:54:34 <kcoyle> ... can also gather questions
20:55:01 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
20:55:09 <Caroline_> ack riccardoAlbertoni
20:55:10 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: what is missing?
20:55:44 <kcoyle> riccardoAlbertoni: I like andrea's suggestions; also next charter could include other things
20:56:33 <kcoyle> ... issues like modeling software etc., not in the core of dcat; need to look at the issues for other questions
20:56:36 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:56:56 <Caroline_> +1 annette_g
20:56:57 <kcoyle> +1 to annette
20:57:22 <Caroline_> s/+1 annette_g/+1 to annette_g
20:57:23 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:57:30 <Caroline_> ack AndreaPerego
20:57:36 <kcoyle> riccardoAlbertoni: perhaps even things outside of our catalog comfort zone
20:58:05 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: should we put resources other than data sets and services? what other types?
20:58:39 <kcoyle> ... people have use cases where they need to describe the vocabulary, data dictionary
20:58:48 <Caroline_> +1 to annette_g's suggestion to ask about if there are other deliverables people would like to see from the data activity
20:59:01 <dsr> dsr has joined #dxwg
20:59:27 <kcoyle> ... also have some more generic questions; think about what folks represent possible forward directions
20:59:46 <kcoyle> ... ask folks to submit their use cases and issues
21:00:17 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:00:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:00:49 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:00:52 <Caroline_> ack AndreaPerego
21:01:35 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: regarding Annette's question on profile guidance, do we have a specific question or a general one?
21:03:08 <kcoyle> Caroline_: structured brainstorming - moderate in sets of 5 minutes; results can take us forward with new charter
21:03:35 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:03:41 <Caroline_> ack AndreaPerego
21:04:04 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: another option is just to focus on the charter, not single deliverables
21:04:57 <kcoyle> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:04:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
21:05:13 <annette_g> annette_g: questions are if anyone is interested in using profiles/profiles guidance and if there are other deliverables people would like to see from the data activity.
21:05:28 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: if we focus on deliverables we may not get information relevant to charter
21:06:07 <Caroline_> e.g. what are the main challenges of data on the web
21:06:27 <riccardoAlbertoni> is there anything we have not considered yet?
21:07:04 <kcoyle> Caroline_: no time for presentations
21:07:17 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: is there another deliverable for the charter that we have not thought about?
21:07:59 <kcoyle> Caroline_: I think the charter is open; we can do what we think is right
21:08:43 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: we need to start from the current one, otherwise we are creating a different working group
21:09:31 <kcoyle> Caroline_: but the one before this was Data on the Web best practices; how open do we want to be?
21:10:15 <kcoyle> AndreaPerego: best to start from something if we want to ask questions; brainstorm on how to reshape the DXWG
21:11:05 <kcoyle> Caroline_: focus on dataset exchange as direction
21:11:18 <kcoyle> rrsagent, general minutes v2
21:11:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'general minutes v2', kcoyle.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
21:11:36 <kcoyle> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:11:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html kcoyle
21:12:59 <AndreaPerego> s/DaveBrowning;//
21:13:01 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:13:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:14:26 <AndreaPerego> s/Caroline_: topic/topic/
21:14:27 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:14:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:15:29 <AndreaPerego> s/propose: accept/proposed: accept/
21:15:30 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:15:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
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