00:28:06 dsr has joined #wot 01:29:09 dsr has joined #wot 02:30:15 dsr has joined #wot 03:31:40 dsr has joined #wot 03:56:16 kaz has joined #wot 04:32:22 dsr has joined #wot 05:13:57 zkis has joined #wot 05:33:24 dsr has joined #wot 06:00:22 dsr has joined #wot 07:19:29 dsr has joined #wot 07:37:32 dsr has joined #wot 07:53:40 dsr has joined #wot 08:27:15 zkis has joined #wot 11:10:22 dsr has joined #wot 11:11:05 zkis has joined #wot 11:23:35 McCool has joined #wot 11:32:06 dsr has joined #wot 11:53:19 dsr has joined #wot 11:57:49 takio has joined #wot 11:58:00 rrsagent, bye 11:58:00 I see no action items 11:58:10 RRSAgent has joined #wot 11:58:10 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-wot-irc 11:58:21 meeting: WoT Open Day - Day 2 11:58:45 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Van_Cu_Pham 11:59:01 present+ Takio_Yamaoka, Arturo_Romero 11:59:38 present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda 11:59:56 present+ Hiroshi_Ota 12:00:05 present+ Michael_McCool 12:00:34 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 12:00:39 ktoumura has joined #wot 12:02:05 present+ Gabriel_Romero 12:02:11 present+ Ege_Korkan 12:02:26 present+ Miguel_Romero 12:02:32 Mizushima has joined #wot 12:02:36 present+ Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima 12:02:53 McCool has joined #wot 12:03:02 mjk has joined #wot 12:03:28 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_October_2021#Oct_14_-_Open_Day 12:03:30 ota has joined #wot 12:03:35 Gabriel_Romero has joined #wot 12:03:46 matsuda has joined #wot 12:04:25 present+ Andrea_Cimmino, Daniel_Peintner 12:04:37 Pham has joined #wot 12:04:38 Ege has joined #wot 12:05:03 dape has joined #wot 12:05:46 topic: Scribe 12:05:52 kaz and tbd 12:06:02 i/kaz/scribenick: kaz/ 12:06:10 topic: Agenda 12:06:43 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f/2021-10-14-WoT-OpenDay-McCool.pdf McCool's slides 12:06:57 mm: (goes though the agenda slides) 12:07:22 ... ECHONET, SDW, brak and Netzo 12:07:34 topic: Guests 12:07:50 -> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20170801/ W3C Patent Policy 12:08:02 mm: please be aware of the W3C Patent Policy above 12:08:10 ... also the minutes will be publicly published 12:08:23 present+ Kotis_K 12:08:39 mm: resources 12:08:48 .. Wiki and Presentations 12:09:05 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_October_2021 vF2F wiki 12:09:21 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f presentation area 12:09:30 dsr has joined #wot 12:09:31 mm: please upload your slides there 12:09:37 ... PDF preferred 12:10:07 present+ Philipp_Blum, Sebastian_Kaebisch 12:10:18 present+ Fady_Salama 12:10:43 topic: Self intro 12:10:57 ar: Arturo Romero, CEO of Netzo 12:11:12 s/Self/Guests' self/ 12:12:07 ... Miguel and Gabriel also from Netzo 12:12:22 ho: Hiroshi Ota from Yahoo Japan 12:13:05 present+ Konstantinos_Kotis 12:13:44 mm: Van_Cu_Pham from ECHONET 12:13:57 ty: Takio Yamaoka from Yahoo Japan 12:14:11 topic: ECHONET 12:14:26 cris has joined #wot 12:14:26 -> @@@slides 12:14:53 tm: tx for giving this opportunity 12:15:15 ... ECHONET Consortium Liaison Activity 12:15:18 ... Agenda 12:15:25 ... liaison acitivities 12:15:29 ... plugfest results 12:15:45 ... mapping ECHONET Device Description 12:16:02 ... starting with Liaison activities 12:16:07 ... Use Case Proposal 12:16:16 ... Leaving and Coming Home 12:16:18 sebastian has joined #wot 12:16:46 ... (goes through the ECHONET use case which is already included in the Use Cases draft) 12:16:49 ... Plugfest 12:17:01 ... provided four ECHONET Lite devices 12:17:06 ... via intermediary 12:17:44 ... LED, air conditioner, illuminance sensor, temperature sensor 12:17:50 ... developed by Pham-san 12:18:00 ... Plugfest Results (1) 12:18:18 ... Hitachi connected to the Echonet dvices using Nod-RED 12:18:30 ... Fujitsu also connected using their local proxy 12:18:34 ... TUM also 12:18:43 ... Plugfest Results (2) 12:18:53 ... Toumura-san raised some issue 12:19:08 ... on direct access to the ECHONET Lite Web API 12:19:18 present+ Cristiano_Atuzzi 12:19:28 present+ Michael_Lagally 12:19:59 ... for this plugfest, we access ECHONET device via a gateway, though 12:20:05 ryuichi has joined #wot 12:20:27 ... by adding the encapsulating object schema, it might be possible to accept it directly 12:20:33 q+ 12:20:39 ... that proposal can be an option 12:21:09 ... however, not sure how to handle the value combination, e.g., "rgb" 12:21:39 ... the real property value is "r" something, "g" something and "b" something 12:21:52 ... Mapping ECHONET Device Description to TD 12:22:03 ... Example: General Lighting (1) 12:22:12 ... DD on the left side and TD on the right side 12:22:31 present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura 12:22:38 rrsagent, make log public 12:22:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:22:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:23:06 present+ Youngmin_Ji 12:23:51 ... binding template is additionally generated for TD 12:24:24 q+ 12:24:24 ... e.g., "op" with "readallproperties" 12:24:37 ... Summary of mapping from DD to TD 12:25:01 ... @context for ECHONET Lite Web API added 12:25:25 ... "id" in TD generated automatically based on "deviceType" and "deviceId" 12:25:31 KiK has joined #wot 12:25:41 ... "title" taken from "deviceType" 12:25:56 ... HTTP message translation 12:26:03 ... Read One Property 12:26:32 Miguel has joined #wot 12:26:44 .. WoT on the left side and ECHOENT on the right side 12:27:04 ... translate the target path if needed 12:27:26 ... read request, read response 12:27:28 ... then 12:27:37 ... write request, write response 12:27:58 dsr has joined #wot 12:27:59 ... translate the target path if needed 12:28:20 ... translate the HTTP body to property/value pair 12:28:43 ... then return empty HTTP body with code 200 OK 12:29:31 ... ECHONET has updated property, though 12:29:42 ... Summary of the HTTP Message Translation 12:29:57 ... target path of read and write request is translated if needed 12:30:15 ... ECHOENT Lite Web API reads response HTTP message body 12:30:21 ... thanks 12:30:23 q? 12:30:40 q? 12:30:47 sk: tx! 12:30:54 ... question about slide 8 12:30:58 ... payload structure 12:31:42 ... "PlugFest Result (2)" 12:32:03 ... client requests the RGB value 12:32:20 ... and the question is how the payload structure is like 12:32:42 ... similar problem with Philips Hue as well 12:32:51 ... what can we do using TD? 12:33:22 ... subprotocol problem or binding template problem? 12:33:27 mlagally_ has joined #wot 12:33:31 ... we need to clarify the situation 12:33:38 ... and then improve the specs 12:33:40 q? 12:33:52 q? 12:33:53 tm: personally think it's issue with binding templates 12:34:15 q+ 12:34:22 q+ 12:34:42 q+ 12:34:49 ... using sub protocol might be a feasible option, though 12:35:23 ask se 12:35:27 ack se 12:35:32 s/ask se// 12:35:56 mm: agree we definitely need clarification 12:36:01 ... my question is about p9 12:36:09 ... Example: General Lighting (1) 12:36:40 ... issue about the ID 12:37:06 ... this time "echonet" prefix is used 12:37:16 ... need some clean up 12:37:23 tm: tx for your comment 12:37:33 ... I appreciate it 12:37:45 ... no detailed discussion how to generate the ID 12:37:53 ... so this is just an example 12:37:54 I'm confused by the payload issue. Why is { "r": 20, "g": 200, "b"10 } acceptable where { "brightness": 80 } is not 12:38:26 q+ mjk 12:38:57 mm: my second point is, should the "id" be always a URL? 12:39:19 ... that's rather a question to myself 12:39:24 q? 12:39:26 ack mc 12:39:30 ack ege 12:39:34 ek: tx 12:39:37 ... very detailed 12:39:58 ... payload on p7 12:40:04 ... schema problem? 12:40:08 dsr has joined #wot 12:40:15 tm: this was proposal from Toumura-san 12:40:20 ark_ has joined #wot 12:40:40 arturo_romero_netzo has joined #wot 12:41:23 ek: highly indesirable for an intermediary to process the conversion 12:41:36 ... counter requirement for interoperability 12:41:51 ... put the full schema 12:42:08 ... for consumer to consider 12:42:10 q? 12:42:18 +1 12:42:26 tm: yeah, that's right 12:43:20 ... ECHONET Lite Web API's Device Description describes {"r": 20, "g": 255, "b": 0} 12:43:44 ek: what part of the properties to be converted is handled by the Binding 12:44:00 tm: thanks to Toumura-san, we've noticed this issue 12:44:15 ack k 12:46:15 kaz: we should continue to think about variety of property structure from existing standards 12:46:21 ack ml 12:46:35 ... should look into exsiting mechanisms and then think about how to solve the problem 12:46:50 ml: Oracle Cloud IoT platform 12:47:03 ... also handled RGB mapping 12:47:17 ... encoding the structure into property combination 12:47:29 ... so this is my second time to see this issue 12:47:36 s/exsiting/existing/ 12:48:03 ... we should this as one of the specific examples to solve the issues 12:48:16 ... would agree we need to solve this issue for TD 12:48:18 q? 12:48:46 mjk: tx for ECHONET to participate first :) 12:48:52 ... potential endpoint for WoT 12:49:00 ... great presentation 12:49:10 ... need discussion for this issue 12:49:25 ... my assumption is data schema part of TD is on the wire 12:49:42 ... agree the problem is a long-standing one 12:49:44 ./property combination/property combination: rgb_r, rgb_g, rgb_b/ 12:49:49 s/property combination/property combination: rgb_r, rgb_g, rgb_b/ 12:50:06 ... information model 12:50:24 ... we do need to have a sort of abstract data schema 12:50:27 ... unbound way 12:50:37 ... and another wired schema 12:50:49 s/solve this issue for TD/solve this specific issue of encoding a rgb color in the TD/ 12:50:58 ... maybe protocol binding used for the conversion 12:51:03 ack mjk 12:51:12 q? 12:51:19 tm: thank YOU for your comment 12:51:28 ... defining schema in abstract format? 12:51:52 q+ 12:52:01 ... and another wire data schema 12:52:15 ... that is the purpose of the binding. right? 12:52:26 mjk: data schema was part of binding originally 12:52:34 ... but getting another view 12:52:58 ... semantic schema never changes but protocol schema could change 12:53:03 tm: I see 12:53:06 q? 12:53:12 ack e 12:53:33 ek: ECHONET can write a binding template? 12:53:35 I like mjk proposed solution. +1 we already have schemas on forms with additionalExpectedResponses 12:53:43 tm: can't answer right now 12:54:01 ... need discussion on the ECHONET side 12:54:09 ... and would like to continue via the liaison 12:54:10 q_ 12:54:12 q+ 12:54:16 s/q_// 12:55:37 q? 12:55:46 kaz: we should simply ask matsuda san and ECHONET to work with us to improve the Binding Template Note 12:55:49 ek: ok 12:56:25 tm: let's continue the discussion offline 12:56:28 kaz: ok 12:56:36 mm: should wrap up 12:57:11 ... seems SDW group has issue on WebEx connection 12:57:23 ... so would suggest we take break earlier 12:57:48 [10-min break] 12:57:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:57:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/14-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:05:02 ScottSimmons has joined #wot 13:05:14 PeterRushforth has joined #wot 13:05:23 jtandy has joined #wot 13:05:37 RobSmith has joined #wot 13:05:38 Linda_van_den_Brink has joined #wot 13:05:38 present+ jtandy 13:05:42 present+ ScottSimmons 13:06:17 present+ Linda_van_den_Brink 13:06:24 present+ 13:06:36 present+ RobSmith 13:08:36 topic: Preliminary for the SDW collaboration 13:09:00 topic: TD issue based on ECHONET discussion 13:09:05 s/topic: Preliminary for the SDW collaboration// 13:09:24 ek: would create a TD issue unless somebody else would 13:09:33 mm: go ahead and put the URL here on the IRC 13:09:44 topic: SDW collaboration 13:10:09 jt: Jeremy Tandy, the Chair of the SDW group (co-Chair is Linda) 13:10:23 ... collaborating with OGC 13:10:41 ... Scott and Linda also here 13:11:23 linda: Linda van den Brink from Geonovum 13:11:29 ... member of W3C and also OGC 13:11:45 ... chairing the SDW group with Scott 13:11:52 s/Scott/Jeremy/ 13:12:06 ... Scott, you can also introduce yourself 13:12:18 Scott: Scott Simmons from OGC 13:12:54 jt: a few more people from SDW 13:13:07 br: Bill Roberts 13:13:18 ... very interested to here 13:13:26 pr: Peter Rushforth 13:13:27 sebastian has joined #wot 13:13:51 rs: Rob Smith 13:14:45 roba: Rob @@@ from OGC 13:15:16 jvu: Joost van Ulden 13:15:43 topic: Note for guests 13:15:55 mm: please be aware of the W3C Patent Policy 13:16:05 topic: Spatial Data on the Web and WoT Geolocation 13:16:15 mm: (shows the slides) 13:16:33 i|shows|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f McCool's slides| 13:16:40 ... WoT working on discovery as well 13:16:49 ... including geospatial discovery 13:17:01 ... want to integrate with the existing standards 13:17:08 ... and include best practices 13:17:28 ... use cases are smart cities, smart homes, automotives, etc. 13:17:45 ... geolocation data to cover various use cases 13:18:07 ... include data description or getting that from the device (or both) 13:18:16 ... Geolocation Project Report 13:18:39 ... geolocation requirements have been discussed 13:18:49 ... also issue with query 13:19:07 s/also/encoding of geolocation data. also/ 13:19:18 ... creating a group Note 13:19:34 ... how to encode and use geolocation data for WoT purposes 13:19:42 ... develop a working document 13:20:02 ... presentation on Monday, Oct 11 about smart building 13:20:18 ... also requirements from Singapore 13:20:27 ... we need to collaborate (with SDW) 13:20:39 ... Collaborations Needed 13:20:59 ... concrete set of recommendations needed 13:21:23 ... Next Steps 13:21:30 ... some proposals myself 13:21:42 ... but would ask the SDW group for advice 13:22:03 jt: bring the people working on the topic into the loop 13:22:21 ... key initiative in the geolocation area is MGCTI API 13:22:31 s/MGCTI/OGC/ 13:22:39 ... how to interact with geospatial data 13:23:01 ... covers query 13:23:13 ... common features and records 13:23:20 ... are you aware of that work? 13:23:22 mm: yes 13:23:39 ... the question is we have our own discovery spec 13:23:56 ... which part to be reused/imported? 13:24:10 ... we need to capture the plan 13:24:45 ... my hope is basic discovery for WoT first during this charter period 13:25:10 ... and the question is do we need informative thing first? 13:25:24 ... other things also going on 13:25:28 ... and wanted to ask you 13:26:09 ... in addition to OGC, IEEE P287 working on geolocation, time series data, interval queries, etc. 13:26:13 jt: yes 13:26:22 ... time and space together 13:27:04 mm: acceleration, velocity, etc., are not well handled for robotics, etc. 13:27:22 ... alignment with the existing W3C specs would be good 13:27:40 jt: Scott, you've been involved in IEEE, ISO, etc. 13:27:52 ... any other touch points? 13:28:19 ... identifying some common patterns both in WoT doing and OGC is doing 13:28:27 ... aim converge at some point 13:28:37 ... thinking about same query, etc. 13:28:46 ... any ideas from SDW? 13:29:02 ss: OGC APIs and the features 13:29:10 ... convenient API to handle data 13:29:30 ... but if there is some existing work on the WoT side 13:29:40 ... would see that 13:30:04 ... bigger convenient API may or may not be usable 13:30:29 ... would see the intersections 13:31:43 mm: we have discussion on descriptive vs prescriptive 13:32:09 ... big problem with IoT is out-of-box interoperability 13:32:23 ... would have recommended practices 13:32:39 ... but what are those recommended practices 13:33:09 ra: Rob Atkinson 13:33:29 ... bunch of different pints 13:33:46 ... different aspects of interoperability 13:34:21 ... distinction among methods for bunch of stuff 13:34:51 ... exact same sensors should work the same, but what if put in different locations? 13:35:03 ... collaboration with WoT, starting with the data 13:35:42 ... another aspect 13:36:00 ... commonality of implementation 13:36:40 ... a profile of SSN for WoT purpose may be useful 13:36:49 ... and finally 13:37:00 ... where the touch point is? 13:37:40 ... have to work on interoperability across different platforms 13:37:43 mm: yeah 13:37:51 ... might have particular use cases 13:38:03 ... and put some common one 13:38:18 ... on the other hand, would get a bigger picture for the next step 13:38:44 ... we're looking at JSON-LD for vocabulary extension 13:38:58 ... also experimental extension for JSON 13:39:26 ... would figure out some compromise 13:39:42 ... issue of encoding for the short term 13:39:52 ... and then privacy concern 13:40:05 ... need to figure out possible solutions 13:40:30 jt: we have a group preparing for a Note 13:40:48 ... bunch of work in hand 13:40:53 ... looking at privacy issues 13:41:02 ... in terms of starting with small part 13:41:19 ... encoding geolocation data using JSON-LD? 13:41:24 mm: yes, JSON-LD 13:41:35 ... specifically WoT Thing Description based on JSON-LD 13:41:50 ... data schema for actual definition 13:41:58 ... how to unify the things for queries 13:42:03 ... struggling with that 13:42:05 Responsible Use of Spatial Data: https://w3c.github.io/sdw/responsible-use/ 13:42:08 ... still a proposal 13:42:19 jt: query pattern 13:42:22 ... you're using 13:42:33 ... smaller part of the building block 13:42:48 ... about semantic alignment of WoT and Spatial world 13:43:52 ... wondering if Rob can give description on his work about GeoPse 13:44:07 mm: we need a structure 13:44:15 ... how to address the problem 13:44:28 ... (shows an example TD) 13:44:45 ... responding with position property 13:45:01 ... longitude, latitude, accuracy and accuracyUnit 13:45:20