17:51:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:51:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/12-aria-apg-irc
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17:52:11 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
17:52:18 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Jemma
17:52:28 <Matt_King> present+
17:52:33 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
17:52:39 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
17:52:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/12-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:53:14 <Jemma> present+
18:02:16 <Rich_Noah> Rich_Noah has joined #aria-apg
18:02:17 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
18:02:31 <Rich_Noah> present+
18:04:33 <Jemma> present+ Jongund
18:04:41 <Jemma> present+ siri
18:05:04 <Jemma> Topic: APG redesign project update
18:05:30 <Jemma> rich: isaac started is working on implementing changes with engineering team.
18:06:09 <Jemma> ... this coming week, we can commit the implementing those changes.
18:06:50 <Jemma> ... working with template change with bocoup engineering team.
18:07:33 <Jemma> mck: we can also talk to w3c Education and Outreach working group such as landmark issues
18:07:57 <Jemma> ... we would need issues to be complied to be addressed to w3c EOW.
18:08:12 <Jemma> rich: we will prepare separate issues for EOW
18:08:46 <Jemma> rich: I created the question list regarding repo inquiry by matt king
18:09:17 <Jemma> ... to get the direction
18:09:33 <Jemma> jongund: what is the update for jump to function for redesign project?
18:10:28 <Jemma> s/to get the direction/to get the direction for migration project/
18:10:48 <Jemma> present+ bryangaraventa
18:11:24 <Jemma> rich: "jump to" is noted item to the redesign project.
18:11:42 <Jemma> jongund: contact me if you have any question about "jump to"
18:11:55 <Jemma> rich: I will get back to you with timeline
18:11:57 <siri> siri has joined #aria-apg
18:12:13 <Jemma> ... due to AT project, apg redesign project will not in this sprint
18:13:07 <Jemma> next sprint, 10/18 will include the apg redesign project.
18:13:29 <Jemma> ...engineering team will look into the issues
18:13:56 <Jemma> mck: at app has the priority over apg redesign project.
18:14:46 <Jemma> present+ Jamesn
18:15:11 <Jemma> Topic:PR discussion/working session
18:15:13 <Rich_Noah> scribe:Rich_Noah
18:15:27 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2046
18:16:33 <Rich_Noah> jongund: I made some changes to the button description.  if the button takes up the whole cell the button name and header become the same.  was using ariadescribeby
18:16:49 <Jemma> "I  changed the labels, let me know what you think.
18:16:49 <Jemma> The trick is not changing the accessible name of the button, otherwise the button accessible name gets used as the column name when using table navigation commands. But I am open to other ideas, But this is something that is very common and we should have some guidance in the practices." Jon's comment
18:17:19 <Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/sortable-table/examples/table/sortable-table.html
18:17:44 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: now when I tab to a button it is less distracting and easier to understand.
18:18:06 <Rich_Noah> jamesn: why does last name have aria button label none of the others do?
18:18:18 <Rich_Noah> jongund: i see, let me fix that.
18:19:17 <Rich_Noah> jamesn: we should be consitent on all the buttons
18:19:56 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: Bryan do need the link to the example?
18:20:06 <Rich_Noah> Jemma: will place in chat
18:20:32 <Jemma> <th aria-sort="ascending">
18:20:32 <Jemma>               <button aria-describedby="id-change-sort" data-column-index="0">
18:20:32 <Jemma>                 First Name
18:20:32 <Jemma>                 <span aria-hidden="true"></span>
18:20:32 <Jemma>               </button>
18:20:34 <Jemma>             </th>
18:20:34 <Rich_Noah> Bryan: this is a standard data table.  Sounds like it is valid
18:21:53 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I was wondering if you thought aria-describedby is best practice.
18:22:48 <Rich_Noah> Bryan: typically I don't have anything on the button but typically the header uses aria-sort.  That provides all the necessary data for the person hearing it.
18:23:12 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: some people feel it is necessary to provide all the information a button does.
18:25:30 <Rich_Noah> jamesn: do we have an aria equivalent for abbr?
18:25:51 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: I think aria-description might work there.
18:28:08 <Rich_Noah> Bryan: why can't use the title attribute?
18:29:04 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: good question
18:38:29 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: do we need text labels for those things that appear on hover?  If symbols have meaning do we need to provide help to people on what they mean?  Especially for people with cognitive disabilities.
18:38:54 <Rich_Noah> jongund: would you like a tooltip put in?
18:41:58 <Rich_Noah> jamesn: I prefer simplification.
18:53:24 <Jemma> https://dequeuniversity.com/library/aria/table-sortable
19:01:38 <Rich_Noah> jongund:  I would caution against having too many examples.
19:02:11 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: then possible in the documentation talk about trade offs and then they can choose.  I think two versions is enough.
19:05:41 <Jemma> https://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/jet/jetCookbook.html?component=table&demo=basicTable
19:09:54 <Rich_Noah> Matt_King: we will remove diamonds and show the arrow once the button is pressed/sorted.  After it is sorted we want them to appear on arrow/hover.
19:17:43 <Rich_Noah> rrsagent draft minutes
19:18:07 <Rich_Noah> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:18:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/12-aria-apg-minutes.html Rich_Noah