IRC log of wot on 2021-10-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 11:58:44 [RRSAgent]
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- 11:58:44 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-irc
- 11:58:51 [kaz]
- meeting: WoT OpenDay - Day 1
- 11:59:04 [kaz]
- s/OpenDay/Open Day/
- 12:00:01 [zkis]
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- 12:00:37 [kaz]
- present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ai_Mizokawa, Marcus_Schmidt, Van_Cu_Pham, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Tomoya_Asai, Joungmin_Ji, Takashi_Kasuya
- 12:01:16 [kaz]
- present+ Hiroki_Endo, Cristiano_Aguzzi
- 12:01:34 [McCool]
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- 12:01:42 [cris]
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- 12:01:45 [ktoumura]
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- 12:01:53 [mlagally]
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- 12:01:56 [matsuda]
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- 12:02:01 [dape]
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- 12:02:03 [Mikkel]
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- 12:02:11 [HirokiEndo]
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- 12:02:13 [pham]
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- 12:02:14 [dynamis]
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- 12:02:15 [kaz]
- present+ Ege_Korkan, Hiroshi_Ota, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally
- 12:02:25 [mjk]
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- 12:02:29 [McCool]
- q+
- 12:02:34 [McCool]
- ack m
- 12:02:36 [kaz]
- present+ Mikkel Brynildsen, Michael_Koster
- 12:02:37 [McCool]
- q?
- 12:02:39 [Youngmin_Ji]
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- 12:02:52 [ota]
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- 12:02:54 [kaz]
- present+ Walter_Bae
- 12:02:57 [Ege]
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- 12:03:01 [kaz]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 12:03:01 [Zakim]
- Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ai_Mizokawa, Marcus_Schmidt, Van_Cu_Pham, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Tomoya_Asai, Joungmin_Ji, Takashi_Kasuya, Hiroki_Endo,
- 12:03:04 [Zakim]
- ... Cristiano_Aguzzi, Ege_Korkan, Hiroshi_Ota, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Lagally, Mikkel, Brynildsen, Michael_Koster, Walter_Bae
- 12:03:22 [fady]
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- 12:03:25 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 12:03:30 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:03:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 12:03:56 [Kasuya]
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- 12:04:14 [kaz]
- present+ Daniel_Peintner
- 12:04:30 [kaz]
- present+ Fady_Salama, Hiroshi_Fujisawa
- 12:04:41 [kaz]
- present+ Philipp_Blum
- 12:04:48 [kaz]
- present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
- 12:05:30 [kaz]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_October_2021#Oct_11_-_Open_Day
- 12:05:56 [kaz]
- mm: Today is a WoT Open Day
- 12:06:04 [kaz]
- ... Thursday as well
- 12:07:13 [kaz]
- i/Today/topic: Agenda/
- 12:07:23 [kaz]
- ... Welcome
- 12:07:33 [kaz]
- ... Takenaka's presentation
- 12:07:36 [kaz]
- ... break
- 12:07:43 [kaz]
- ...plugfest report
- 12:07:47 [kaz]
- ... and wrapup
- 12:08:06 [kaz]
- topic: Scribe
- 12:08:14 [kaz]
- mm: Kaz and Sebastian
- 12:08:40 [dsr]
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- 12:09:04 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 12:09:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 12:09:07 [sebastian]
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- 12:09:13 [kaz]
- topic: Patent Policy
- 12:09:41 [ryuichi]
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- 12:09:49 [kaz]
- mm: this is a WoT WG/IG joint meeting
- 12:10:11 [kaz]
- ... and for the invited guests, Open Day is organized by the IG
- 12:10:20 [kaz]
- ... please be aware of the W3C Patent Policy
- 12:10:32 [kaz]
- -> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20170801/ W3C Patent Policy 2017
- 12:10:56 [kaz]
- mm: please upload your presentation slides to the GitHub
- 12:11:09 [kaz]
- ... if not possible, please let us know about the link
- 12:11:24 [kaz]
- topic: Guests
- 12:11:45 [kaz]
- ota: Hiroshi Ota from Yahoo Japan
- 12:12:03 [kaz]
- mikkel: @@
- 12:12:14 [kaz]
- kasuya: Takashi Kasuya from Takenaka
- 12:12:52 [kaz]
- asai: Tomoya Asai from WebDINO (former Mozilla Japan)
- 12:13:17 [kaz]
- walter: ...
- 12:13:33 [kaz]
- youngmin: Youngmin Ji from KETI
- 12:14:30 [kaz]
- mizokawa: ...
- 12:14:43 [kaz]
- topic: Logistics
- 12:14:55 [kaz]
- mm: wiki at https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_October_2021
- 12:15:16 [kaz]
- ... presentation slides https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f
- 12:15:35 [citrullin]
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- 12:15:39 [kaz]
- sk: please make sure you all join the IRC as well
- 12:16:04 [kaz]
- topic: Takenaka
- 12:16:24 [kaz]
- kasuya: will upload my slides later
- 12:16:37 [kaz]
- i/will/[@@@slides]/
- 12:17:01 [kaz]
- ... I'm from Takenaka Corporation
- 12:17:01 [kaz]
- ... slide 1
- 12:17:09 [kaz]
- ... Smart Building
- 12:17:31 [kaz]
- ... advanced energy-saving
- 12:18:09 [kaz]
- ... slide 2
- 12:18:20 [kaz]
- ... BACS: Building Automation and Control System
- 12:18:39 [kaz]
- ... multi-vendor systems consisting of HVAC, metering, etc.
- 12:18:48 [kaz]
- .. IoT and AI
- 12:18:52 [kaz]
- ... slide 3
- 12:18:58 [kaz]
- Software Defined BACS
- 12:19:05 [kaz]
- ... architecture here
- 12:19:28 [kaz]
- ... GW exchanges the data with the data platform outside on the cloud
- 12:19:32 [kaz]
- ... slide 4
- 12:19:40 [kaz]
- ... BIM: Building Information Modeling
- 12:19:56 [kaz]
- ... will be necessary for building management
- 12:20:23 [kaz]
- ... lifecycle of BIM here
- 12:20:26 [kaz]
- ... slide 5
- 12:20:39 [kaz]
- ... Issues for Smart Building Data Platform
- 12:20:44 [kaz]
- ... data modeling
- 12:21:01 [kaz]
- ... support for practical use cases that consider IoT and AI
- 12:21:11 [kaz]
- ... using Lambda architecture and WoT
- 12:21:18 [kaz]
- ... reduction of running costs
- 12:21:23 [kaz]
- ... slide 6
- 12:21:35 [kaz]
- ... Proposed Method: Data Modeling Automation
- 12:21:48 [McCool]
- q+
- 12:21:48 [kaz]
- ... spatial hierarchies from BIM
- 12:21:51 [kaz]
- ... slide 7
- 12:22:05 [kaz]
- ... Extract Geometry / Metadata from BIM (IFC)
- 12:22:12 [kaz]
- ... IFC is intermediate format
- 12:22:28 [kaz]
- ... extract geometry from the data
- 12:22:31 [kaz]
- ... slide 8
- 12:22:36 [kaz]
- ... visual graph
- 12:23:01 [kaz]
- ... site-> building-> story, ...
- 12:23:09 [kaz]
- ... using building ontology
- 12:23:13 [kaz]
- ... slide 9
- 12:23:22 [kaz]
- ... Requirement / Design for Smart Building Platform
- 12:23:36 [kaz]
- ... concepts, requirements and technologies
- 12:23:39 [kaz]
- ... slide 10
- 12:23:50 [kaz]
- ...Architecture: futaba
- 12:24:09 [kaz]
- ... realtime processing by Lambda architecture and WoT
- 12:24:16 [kaz]
- ... slide 11
- 12:24:21 [kaz]
- ... standards comparison
- 12:24:24 [kaz]
- ... slide 12
- 12:24:31 [kaz]
- ... Data model / Endpoint using WoT
- 12:25:06 [kaz]
- ... spatial data and point data merged
- 12:25:24 [kaz]
- ... and put into the buidling metadata registration tool
- 12:25:30 [kaz]
- ... slide 13
- 12:25:36 [kaz]
- ... Big data processing
- 12:25:43 [kaz]
- ... it takes time to process big data
- 12:26:19 [kaz]
- ... so processing on the backyard using Databricks by Azure
- 12:26:30 [kaz]
- ... slide 14
- 12:26:36 [kaz]
- ... Use case (1): EQ House
- 12:26:52 [kaz]
- ... very small house for experiment purpose
- 12:27:03 [dsr]
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- 12:27:05 [kaz]
- ... 200 points of IoT devices
- 12:27:12 [kaz]
- ... Use Case : EQ House (2)
- 12:27:25 [kaz]
- ... visual graph including building/space, device and point
- 12:27:33 [kaz]
- ... slide 16
- 12:27:42 [kaz]
- ...Use Case: EQ House (3)
- 12:27:58 [kaz]
- ... remote control system using AI to improve confort
- 12:28:03 [kaz]
- ... slide 17
- 12:28:26 [kaz]
- ... Use case (2): Takanaka Research & Development Institute
- 12:28:39 [kaz]
- ... digital twin application
- 12:28:41 [kaz]
- ... slide 18
- 12:28:46 [kaz]
- ... API definition
- 12:28:53 [kaz]
- ... sorry but written in Japanese
- 12:29:22 [kaz]
- ... WoT features for HOT category, e.g., getting TD, property, etc.
- 12:29:26 [kaz]
- ... slide 19
- 12:29:35 [kaz]
- ... WoT API (1) Auhtentication
- 12:29:59 [kaz]
- ... crate ID
- 12:30:12 [kaz]
- ... request to issue / refresh an access token
- 12:30:16 [kaz]
- ... slide 20
- 12:30:30 [kaz]
- ... WoT API (3)
- 12:30:44 [kaz]
- ... WoT API (4)
- 12:30:46 [McCool]
- q?
- 12:30:49 [sebastian]
- q?
- 12:30:49 [kaz]
- ... retrieve data
- 12:30:49 [citrullin]
- q
- 12:30:50 [sebastian]
- q+
- 12:30:54 [citrullin]
- q+
- 12:31:04 [mlagally]
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- 12:31:05 [kaz]
- mm: thank you very much
- 12:31:07 [mlagally]
- q+
- 12:31:11 [kaz]
- ... wonderful stuff
- 12:31:24 [kaz]
- ... great proof of spec
- 12:31:36 [kaz]
- ack mc
- 12:31:37 [McCool]
- ack m
- 12:31:38 [McCool]
- q+
- 12:31:42 [kaz]
- sk: thanks!
- 12:31:47 [kaz]
- ... very interesting
- 12:32:01 [kaz]
- ... which kind of TD are you using?
- 12:32:01 [kaz]
- q+
- 12:32:17 [kaz]
- ... genuine 1.0 or any addition?
- 12:32:32 [kaz]
- kasuya: using 1.0
- 12:32:54 [kaz]
- ask se
- 12:33:02 [kaz]
- pb: great presentation
- 12:33:03 [McCool]
- ack se
- 12:33:16 [kaz]
- ... you wrote some JS code. right?
- 12:33:27 [kaz]
- ... not node-wot but your own implementation?
- 12:34:30 [kaz]
- kasuya: made SDK ourselves
- 12:34:30 [McCool]
- q?
- 12:34:50 [kaz]
- ... WoT API is basically REST-based
- 12:34:56 [kaz]
- ... so not very complicated
- 12:35:04 [kaz]
- ... if needed, maybe we can also provide our codes
- 12:35:06 [kaz]
- akc cit
- 12:35:09 [McCool]
- ack c
- 12:35:13 [mlagally]
- q+
- 12:35:15 [kaz]
- s/akc cit//
- 12:35:26 [kaz]
- mm: capture any requirements
- 12:35:38 [kaz]
- ... e.g., security
- 12:35:44 [kaz]
- ... geolocation
- 12:35:55 [kaz]
- ... you're using graph-based topology
- 12:36:06 [kaz]
- ... that's something we should look into
- 12:36:12 [kaz]
- ... the last thing is slide 22
- 12:36:19 [kaz]
- ... number of events there
- 12:36:30 [kaz]
- ... API definition here
- 12:36:46 [kaz]
- ... what standard for event handling to be supoorted?
- 12:37:17 [kaz]
- ... discovery as well
- 12:37:37 [kaz]
- kasuya: we adapt to Open ID standard
- 12:37:44 [kaz]
- ... for ID management
- 12:37:53 [kaz]
- ... refresh token in one day
- 12:38:17 [kaz]
- ... that is the basic security mechanism to avoid attacks
- 12:38:32 [kaz]
- mm: using barerer token?
- 12:38:42 [kaz]
- a/barerer/bearer/
- 12:39:22 [kaz]
- ... maybe we should dive into the detail later
- 12:39:42 [kaz]
- kasuya: 2nd question was geolocation. right?
- 12:39:53 [kaz]
- ... our system target is inside of a building
- 12:40:01 [kaz]
- ... so we don't really handle "geolocation"
- 12:40:27 [mlagally]
- q?
- 12:40:28 [kaz]
- ... we can identify the location by "position"
- 12:40:50 [kaz]
- mm: ok. I meant "location" and "positioning"
- 12:41:23 [kaz]
- ... want to have some mechanism to combine the location information and the position information
- 12:41:26 [McCool]
- q?
- 12:41:27 [kaz]
- kasuya: right
- 12:41:30 [kaz]
- ack mc
- 12:41:36 [kaz]
- ... that's a good point
- 12:41:55 [kaz]
- mm: we'll have collaborative discussion with SDW and OGC later this month
- 12:42:09 [kaz]
- kasuya: we've extended these APIs (p22)
- 12:42:27 [kaz]
- ... have implemented them over Azure platform
- 12:42:51 [kaz]
- ... we can use this kind of event bus for subscription
- 12:43:20 [kaz]
- ... get TD, get property, write property, invoke action
- 12:43:47 [kaz]
- ... subscribe event, get subscription status of event, unsubscribe event
- 12:44:12 [McCool]
- q?
- 12:44:16 [kaz]
- mm: cancelling actions for controlling robots could be a use case
- 12:45:08 [kaz]
- kaz: did you have any difficulty with binding between building management standards and WoT?
- 12:45:20 [kaz]
- kasuya: good question
- 12:45:26 [kaz]
- ... (p11)
- 12:45:36 [kaz]
- ... we have developed a GW for that purpose
- 12:45:51 [kaz]
- ... extend functions on-demand
- 12:46:12 [dsr]
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- 12:46:24 [kaz]
- kaz: your input would be very useful for our Binding Templates spec
- 12:46:40 [kaz]
- kasuya: btw, this proposal was actually my Ph.D Thesis
- 12:46:49 [kaz]
- ... so you can refer to the details there
- 12:47:06 [kaz]
- ... can send resource later
- 12:47:09 [kaz]
- kaz: tx
- 12:47:10 [kaz]
- ack k
- 12:47:12 [kaz]
- ack ml
- 12:47:22 [kaz]
- ml: question about event API again
- 12:47:40 [kaz]
- kasuya: web hooks?
- 12:47:54 [kaz]
- ... retrieving big data from the Azure platform
- 12:47:55 [McCool]
- q+
- 12:48:03 [kaz]
- ... might take long
- 12:48:07 [sebastian]
- q+
- 12:48:13 [kaz]
- ... to create clusters, etc.
- 12:48:17 [McCool]
- (so "cold" here refers to historical data?)
- 12:48:30 [McCool]
- (and "hot" to live data?)
- 12:48:34 [kaz]
- ... so users can register Webhook to get notification
- 12:49:18 [kaz]
- kasuya: we can retrieve streaming data
- 12:49:31 [kaz]
- ... that's our event subscription system
- 12:49:34 [kaz]
- ml: ok
- 12:49:39 [kaz]
- ... what about the payload?
- 12:49:45 [kaz]
- kasuya: standard JSON
- 12:49:58 [kaz]
- ... this example on p27 is a bit extended, though
- 12:50:11 [kaz]
- q?
- 12:50:20 [hfujisawa]
- hfujisawa has joined #wot
- 12:50:20 [dynamis]
- thesis of Kasuya-san (in Japanese) http://hiroshi1.hongo.wide.ad.jp/hiroshi/papers/2021/IPSJ-JNL6203010.pdf
- 12:50:30 [kaz]
- ml: thank you very much
- 12:50:45 [kaz]
- ack mc
- 12:50:49 [kaz]
- ack s
- 12:51:01 [kaz]
- sk: what kind of protocols are you using?
- 12:51:17 [kaz]
- kasuya: currently, BACnet, MQTT, Modbus
- 12:51:19 [dsr_]
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- 12:51:53 [kaz]
- sk: possible discussion about BACnet some more
- 12:52:15 [McCool]
- q+
- 12:52:27 [kaz]
- ... if you're interested in generating official binding for BACnet, that would be very welcome :)
- 12:52:30 [kaz]
- q+
- 12:52:53 [kaz]
- kasuya: we don't develop the BACnet SDK ourselves
- 12:53:09 [kaz]
- ... third party developer developed it and we just use it
- 12:53:14 [kaz]
- sk: ok
- 12:53:18 [kaz]
- ack m
- 12:53:49 [kaz]
- kasuya: (p14)
- 12:54:15 [kaz]
- ... even the BACnet object, we can encode it based on the schema
- 12:54:26 [kaz]
- ... our use case is remote control, etc.
- 12:54:31 [kaz]
- ... handling properties
- 12:54:41 [kaz]
- ... like this example
- 12:54:58 [sebastian]
- q?
- 12:55:16 [kaz]
- mm: modularity is the question here
- 12:55:36 [McCool]
- q?
- 12:56:24 [kaz]
- kaz: regarding the next steps
- 12:56:47 [kaz]
- ... I'd suggest we ask Kasuya-san to participate in the WoT-JP CG to summarize the points first
- 12:57:01 [ryuichi]
- q+
- 12:57:09 [kaz]
- ... and then they can provide input for the WoT-WG for our spec work
- 12:57:17 [kaz]
- mm: sounds reasonable
- 12:57:21 [kaz]
- ack k
- 12:57:47 [kaz]
- mm: also, if there is any publication in English, that would be helpful
- 12:57:51 [kaz]
- ack r
- 12:58:08 [kaz]
- matsukura: glad to see you again
- 12:58:36 [kaz]
- ... thought Univ. Tokyo was using IEEE standards
- 12:58:45 [kaz]
- ... why did you change to WoT?
- 12:58:58 [kaz]
- kasuya: different functionality
- 12:59:10 [kaz]
- ... IEEE was used for storage purposes
- 12:59:25 [kaz]
- ... our new system has realtime part
- 12:59:44 [kaz]
- ... modern systems need to implement RESTful I/F as well
- 12:59:48 [kaz]
- ... that's why
- 12:59:48 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:00:16 [kaz]
- mm: thank you very much for your presentation!
- 13:00:28 [kaz]
- ... thanks for your time as well
- 13:00:33 [kaz]
- ... really helpful
- 13:01:01 [kaz]
- ... please work with Kaz for uploading your slides, etc.
- 13:01:03 [kaz]
- kaz: will help him :)
- 13:01:46 [kaz]
- [break; resume at 10mins past]
- 13:02:01 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:02:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:09:10 [kaz]
- topic: Plugfest report
- 13:09:22 [kaz]
- mm: list of projects here
- 13:09:35 [kaz]
- ... NHK, Testbench, Siemens, Hitachi, Intel, TUM
- 13:10:52 [kaz]
- ... ECHONET report deferred to Thursday
- 13:12:56 [sebastian]
- MM: going throw over the project reports
- 13:12:58 [kaz]
- ... anyone who wants can make report by 10mins
- 13:13:31 [kaz]
- s/... anyone who wants can make report by 10mins//
- 13:13:45 [kaz]
- i/going throw/scribenick: sebastian/
- 13:13:52 [kaz]
- s/throw/through/
- 13:14:14 [sebastian]
- ... checking the issues that are labeld with "PlugFest 2021.09
- 13:14:36 [sebastian]
- ... who like to present first?
- 13:14:42 [sebastian]
- ... ok, I will go
- 13:15:02 [sebastian]
- ... show my presentation that I have prepeared
- 13:15:19 [sebastian]
- ... concentrate on GeoLocation
- 13:15:42 [kaz]
- i/show my/subtopic: Intel: Geolocation/
- 13:15:44 [sebastian]
- ... idea was to find out aboubt the GeoLocation requirements
- 13:16:08 [sebastian]
- ... especially about geoloc data and queries
- 13:17:20 [kaz]
- i|show my|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/167 Project (2021-09 Plugfest): Geolocation - Intel #167|
- 13:17:47 [sebastian]
- ... there are results about data encoding and some use cases with examples
- 13:18:03 [kaz]
- i|show my|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f/2021-10-11-WoT-OpenDay-Geolocation-McCool.pdf Slides|
- 13:18:50 [Fujisawa]
- Fujisawa has joined #wot
- 13:18:52 [sebastian]
- ... next steps would be do gen consensus in the community
- 13:19:20 [sebastian]
- s/gen/get/
- 13:20:50 [sebastian]
- ... there is also the need to do joint discussion and alignment with WGS84, Spatial Data on the Web, Web Geolaction API, etc.
- 13:21:01 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:21:13 [kaz]
- q+ Ege
- 13:21:36 [sebastian]
- Ege: what happen with the BRICK Ontologies group?
- 13:21:51 [sebastian]
- MM: yes, should be also in the list
- 13:22:19 [sebastian]
- s/Ontologies/Ontology/
- 13:22:23 [kaz]
- subtopic: Siemens
- 13:22:30 [kaz]
- ack e
- 13:23:09 [kaz]
- sk: Thing Directory by Christian and Thing Model by me
- 13:23:13 [zkis]
- zkis has joined #wot
- 13:23:51 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/168 Project (2021-09 Plugfest): Siemens / Logilab TDD #168
- 13:24:02 [sebastian]
- Christian: showing the result from Siemens / Logilab TDD
- 13:24:56 [sebastian]
- ... our implementation is mainly based on experience face
- 13:25:04 [kaz]
- i|Christian|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f/2021-10-11-WoT-Openday-Siemens.pdf Slides|
- 13:25:20 [sebastian]
- s/experience face/exploaration phase
- 13:25:34 [kaz]
- chair: McCool/Sebastian
- 13:25:45 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:25:47 [McCool]
- q+
- 13:25:48 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:25:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:26:08 [sebastian]
- ... surprised that new problems have appeared compared to the last PlugFest
- 13:26:26 [sebastian]
- <showing Architecture of the TDD implementation>
- 13:26:27 [kaz]
- i/Today is a WoT/scribenick: kaz/
- 13:26:28 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:26:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:28:08 [kaz]
- s/subtopic: Siemens/subtopic: Siemens: TDD/
- 13:28:10 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:28:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:28:13 [sebastian]
- ... issues: 1) values sometimes not present in TD since they are optional like @type and "id"
- 13:28:49 [sebastian]
- ... 2) problems when "unit" term uses special chararacters like "%"
- 13:28:52 [kaz]
- i/Thing Directory by/scribenick: kaz/
- 13:29:04 [kaz]
- i/showing the result/scribenick: sebastian/
- 13:29:06 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:29:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:29:27 [sebastian]
- ... 3) TD with different contexts
- 13:29:37 [sebastian]
- q+
- 13:30:04 [sebastian]
- ... 4) "securityDefinition" is not restored correctly
- 13:31:20 [sebastian]
- <Christian provides some feedback about implementation experience>
- 13:32:02 [walterbae]
- walterbae has joined #wot
- 13:33:23 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:33:24 [sebastian]
- q?
- 13:33:28 [sebastian]
- ack Mc
- 13:34:09 [kaz]
- s/mikkel: @@/mikkel: Mikkel Brynildsen from Grundfos
- 13:34:11 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:34:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:34:16 [Ege]
- q+
- 13:34:31 [dape]
- q+
- 13:36:15 [kaz]
- q+ to suggest we discuss that not now but during the TD session and/or the joint discussion with the JSON-LD guys :)
- 13:36:21 [sebastian]
- ack s
- 13:36:22 [McCool]
- ack s
- 13:37:14 [sebastian]
- Ege: in the first version we had this placeholder context file, however, in the last testfest we changed to the 1.0 context file
- 13:38:14 [Ege]
- ack e
- 13:38:17 [McCool]
- ack e
- 13:38:41 [sebastian]
- we should discuss this with Manu Sporny in two weeks
- 13:39:32 [dape]
- ack dape
- 13:39:32 [sebastian]
- ack d
- 13:39:34 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:39:34 [Zakim]
- kaz, you wanted to suggest we discuss that not now but during the TD session and/or the joint discussion with the JSON-LD guys :)
- 13:39:36 [sebastian]
- ack k
- 13:40:09 [sebastian]
- joint discussion during the DID meeting
- 13:40:34 [kaz]
- i/joint/kaz: also please create GH issues based on this kind of findings from the Plugfest./
- 13:40:43 [kaz]
- subtopic: Siemens: TM
- 13:40:54 [kaz]
- scribenik: kaz
- 13:41:54 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/194 Project (2021-09 Plugfest): TM Composition #194
- 13:42:02 [kaz]
- -> @@@ Slides
- 13:42:13 [kaz]
- sk: how to generate TD instances
- 13:42:43 [kaz]
- ... examples here
- 13:42:47 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/tree/main/events/2021.09.Online/TD/TMs/Siemens examples
- 13:43:04 [kaz]
- sk: use case of a production line
- 13:43:23 [kaz]
- ... how many bottles to be generated today, etc.
- 13:44:01 [kaz]
- ... whole bottle filing line
- 13:44:16 [kaz]
- ... including bottle filling, capping and sprayhead
- 13:44:46 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:44:58 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:45:00 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:45:23 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:45:26 [sebastian]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/194
- 13:45:45 [kaz]
- kaz: any findings?
- 13:45:58 [sebastian]
- maybe I need to reconnect..
- 13:46:01 [kaz]
- (Sebastian has trouble with unmuting himself)
- 13:46:31 [kaz]
- s|@@@|https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2021-10-online-f2f/2021-10-07-WoT-F2F-TD-Kaebisch.pdf|
- 13:46:34 [kaz]
- subtopic: NHK
- 13:47:03 [kaz]
- endo: WoT device simulator
- 13:47:15 [kaz]
- i/WoT/-> @@@ NHK slides/
- 13:47:20 [kaz]
- ... outline
- 13:47:24 [kaz]
- ... how it works
- 13:47:40 [kaz]
- ... background - future media use case verification
- 13:48:03 [kaz]
- ... to very UX, we need physical devices which provide media content
- 13:48:28 [kaz]
- ... however, hard to prepare physical devices
- 13:48:40 [kaz]
- ... so prototyping based on virtual devices
- 13:48:58 [kaz]
- ... that's why "WoT Device Emulator"
- 13:49:12 [kaz]
- ... examples of virtual WoT devices
- 13:49:18 [kaz]
- ... smart display
- 13:49:22 [kaz]
- ... smart cutting board
- 13:49:48 [kaz]
- ... demo (virtual device controlled by Node-RED)
- 13:49:59 [kaz]
- ... virtual device withing Android
- 13:50:16 [kaz]
- ... actions to toggle the power
- 13:50:32 [kaz]
- ... the emulator can be handled from Node-RED
- 13:50:39 [kaz]
- ... brightness as well
- 13:50:42 [kaz]
- ... next
- 13:50:48 [kaz]
- ... present Web sites
- 13:51:29 [kaz]
- ... how a virtual device works as a WoT device
- 13:52:02 [kaz]
- ... user register the TD to the Android phone which includes the Emulator
- 13:52:17 [kaz]
- ... virtual device on a Webview
- 13:52:39 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:52:47 [kaz]
- ... the Emulator process automatically serves the Web APIs described in the TD
- 13:53:17 [kaz]
- ... Many thanks
- 13:53:26 [kaz]
- ... Toumura-san's support
- 13:53:38 [McCool]
- q+
- 13:53:47 [kaz]
- ... media use cases using the Emulator will be provided
- 13:53:56 [kaz]
- ... working on legal process within NHK
- 13:54:06 [kaz]
- mm: presentation upload issue to be created
- 13:54:26 [kaz]
- ... making the Emulator public would be useful
- 13:54:32 [kaz]
- q?
- 13:54:34 [kaz]
- ack m
- 13:54:39 [kaz]
- kaz: +1
- 13:54:46 [kaz]
- endo: thanks!
- 13:54:51 [kaz]
- ... agree with you
- 13:55:11 [kaz]
- s/NHK/NHK to make the Emulator public./
- 13:55:13 [McCool]
- q?
- 13:55:22 [kaz]
- mm: thanks!
- 13:56:39 [kaz]
- subtopic: TUM
- 13:56:48 [kaz]
- -> @@@ TUM Slides
- 13:57:05 [kaz]
- ms: Marcus from TUM
- 13:57:15 [kaz]
- ... Testbench: Main Goals
- 13:57:39 [kaz]
- i|TUM Slides|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/189 Project (2021-09 Plugfest): Testbench #189
- 13:57:45 [kaz]
- ... Testbench
- 13:57:48 [kaz]
- ... diagram
- 13:57:58 [kaz]
- ... TD initiates operation, parameter, input, and output
- 13:58:10 [kaz]
- ... then sent to the Testing
- 13:58:13 [kaz]
- ... then Evaluation
- 13:59:01 [kaz]
- ... established by API testing
- 13:59:19 [kaz]
- ... note we rely on more than one protocol
- 13:59:23 [kaz]
- ... Test Report
- 13:59:35 [kaz]
- ... T1: operation coverage
- 13:59:42 [kaz]
- ... T2: parameter coverage
- 13:59:47 [kaz]
- ... T3: input coverage
- 13:59:56 [kaz]
- ... T4: output coverage
- 13:59:56 [McCool]
- q+
- 14:00:31 [kaz]
- ... Things I have interacted with during the Plugfest
- 14:00:41 [kaz]
- ... had problem with Intel and Fujitsu
- 14:01:03 [kaz]
- ... Fujitsu used local IP address which was not provided by the VPN
- 14:01:15 [kaz]
- ... regarding Siemens
- 14:01:36 [kaz]
- ... counter, eCar, SmartCoffee, SolarPower, TestThing
- 14:01:42 [kaz]
- ... eCar was not available
- 14:02:03 [kaz]
- q+
- 14:03:30 [kaz]
- ... Hitachi worked
- 14:04:09 [kaz]
- ... UNIBO Farm including CoAp test cases didn't work
- 14:04:28 [kaz]
- ca: definitely need to look into it
- 14:04:36 [kaz]
- ack m
- 14:04:51 [kaz]
- i/defi/mm: problem with CoAP?/
- 14:04:56 [kaz]
- s/CoAp/CoAP/
- 14:05:09 [kaz]
- ms: no problem with ECHONET :)
- 14:05:24 [kaz]
- ... lighting, air conditioner, light sensor, temp sensor
- 14:05:29 [kaz]
- ... What's next?
- 14:05:46 [kaz]
- ... Ege will give some more points
- 14:06:10 [kaz]
- ek: Motivation
- 14:06:31 [kaz]
- ... many cod repositories contain badges about the build status/test coverage
- 14:07:05 [kaz]
- ... TD "Badges"
- 14:07:10 [kaz]
- ... can we have badges within TD?
- 14:07:34 [kaz]
- ... gives confidence to the Consumers that every affordance can be uses
- 14:08:15 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:08:20 [McCool]
- q+
- 14:08:28 [kaz]
- ... TD "Badges": Example
- 14:08:50 [kaz]
- ... "testResult" section is added here
- 14:09:08 [kaz]
- ... to manage testSuite, totalTests and passedTests
- 14:09:19 [kaz]
- ... as an initial thought
- 14:09:29 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:09:30 [kaz]
- ... WoT-Testbench
- 14:09:45 [mjk]
- q?
- 14:11:22 [cris]
- q+
- 14:11:23 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:11:31 [McCool]
- ack k
- 14:12:16 [kaz]
- kaz: for W3C spec generation, "testing" is to clarify the implementability
- 14:12:38 [kaz]
- ... on the other hand, this work looks testing for implementations and products. right?
- 14:12:40 [kaz]
- ms: yes
- 14:12:51 [kaz]
- kaz: in that case, we need to clarify that point first
- 14:13:07 [kaz]
- ... and then ask all the implementers for feedback about their testing experience
- 14:13:09 [kaz]
- ack k
- 14:13:12 [kaz]
- q+
- 14:13:34 [kaz]
- mm: we should create an issue on possible impact for discovery, etc., as well
- 14:13:50 [kaz]
- ... around directory, for example
- 14:14:04 [kaz]
- ack m
- 14:14:23 [kaz]
- mm: let's start with creating an issue
- 14:14:52 [kaz]
- ... we may need to refer to external schema
- 14:15:11 [kaz]
- ... having a standard way to fetch data would be useful
- 14:15:29 [kaz]
- ... Ege, will you create an issue?
- 14:15:36 [kaz]
- ek: for discovery?
- 14:15:46 [kaz]
- mm: under your project issue first
- 14:15:49 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:15:50 [kaz]
- ... then discovery
- 14:15:52 [kaz]
- ack c
- 14:16:09 [kaz]
- ca: are you able to test events?
- 14:16:25 [kaz]
- ek: diagram about how things were tested
- 14:16:26 [Ege]
- https://github.com/tum-esi/testbench/blob/master/readme-images/eventTesting.svg
- 14:16:33 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:17:15 [kaz]
- ek: event testing flow above
- 14:17:21 [kaz]
- ca: ok
- 14:17:29 [kaz]
- ... another question on TM
- 14:17:34 [kaz]
- ... any work?
- 14:17:39 [kaz]
- ek: future work
- 14:17:49 [kaz]
- ... but some in the playground
- 14:17:53 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:18:59 [kaz]
- kaz: regarding the idea of including testing information within TD on p14
- 14:19:11 [kaz]
- ... would suggest we split the information from TD itsef
- 14:19:26 [kaz]
- ... and attach it with TD using link, etc.
- 14:19:32 [kaz]
- ... we need further discussion, though
- 14:19:44 [kaz]
- mm: let's create an issue about that as well
- 14:19:46 [kaz]
- q?
- 14:19:47 [kaz]
- ack k
- 14:19:53 [kaz]
- subtopic: Hitachi
- 14:20:41 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/154 Project (2021-09 Plugfest): Node-RED integration (SPARQL query) #154
- 14:21:02 [kaz]
- tou: implemented query this time
- 14:21:24 [kaz]
- i/imple/tou: Node-RED - WoT Discovery Integration/
- 14:21:35 [kaz]
- ... updated query interface
- 14:21:44 [kaz]
- ... demo video available
- 14:21:45 [kaz]
- (demo)
- 14:22:06 [kaz]
- i/Discovery In/-> @@@ Hitachi Slides/
- 14:22:38 [kaz]
- tou: you can easily handle the properties using Node-RED
- 14:23:17 [kaz]
- ... timestamp->counter-count->msg.payload
- 14:23:40 [kaz]
- ... Issues / Discussion / Lessons Learned
- 14:23:52 [kaz]
- ... round-tripping issues
- 14:24:17 [kaz]
- ... invalid securityDefinitions (w3c/wot-thing-description#1193)
- 14:24:32 [kaz]
- ... title and description are converted to titles and descriptions
- 14:24:44 [kaz]
- ... orchestrating Things using Node-RED
- 14:24:54 [kaz]
- ... thermostat and visual alert
- 14:25:06 [kaz]
- ... ECHONET air conditioner could be turned on
- 14:25:28 [kaz]
- ... NHK smart speaker could handle the lED light
- 14:25:39 [kaz]
- ... direct access to ECHONET Lite Web API
- 14:26:09 [kaz]
- ... for this Plugfest, we could access the ECHONET devices via the GW
- 14:26:27 [kaz]
- ... that's WoT-ECHONET intermediary
- 14:26:42 [kaz]
- ... GW removes an encapsulating object
- 14:26:54 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:27:01 [kaz]
- q+
- 14:27:12 [matsuda]
- q+
- 14:27:47 [kaz]
- kaz: is it really a problem to use a GW?
- 14:28:20 [kaz]
- tou: yes, given ECHONET Lite Web API also follows REST API, it would be nicer to allow direct connection
- 14:28:25 [kaz]
- q?
- 14:28:28 [kaz]
- ack k
- 14:28:32 [kaz]
- ack m
- 14:28:40 [kaz]
- matsu: thanks, Toumura-san
- 14:28:53 [kaz]
- ... we'd like to talk about that point within ECHONET as well
- 14:29:10 [kaz]
- s/withing ECHONET as well/on Thursday/
- 14:29:23 [kaz]
- mm: issue of languages here
- 14:29:38 [kaz]
- ... i.e., title and description
- 14:29:48 [kaz]
- ... maybe in the future we can look at it
- 14:30:01 [kaz]
- tou: this is my first time to use SPARQL
- 14:30:04 [kaz]
- mm: yeah
- 14:30:06 [kaz]
- q?
- 14:30:31 [Mikkel]
- Have WoT looked into SHACL validation of TDs?
- 14:30:40 [kaz]
- ... problem with JSONPath not being a standard yet
- 14:30:57 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:31:22 [kaz]
- mikkel: a question for WoT in general
- 14:31:36 [kaz]
- ... have you thought about SHACL or validation?
- 14:31:55 [kaz]
- mm: we did think about that
- 14:32:08 [kaz]
- ... interesting thing might be warning
- 14:32:29 [kaz]
- ... might want to do some more
- 14:33:21 [kaz]
- i/a question/topic: A separate question on validation/
- 14:33:36 [kaz]
- subtopic: Action model
- 14:33:54 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-testing/issues/187 Project (2021-09 Plugfest): Hypermedia protocol proposal 3 #187
- 14:34:07 [kaz]
- ca: Problem
- 14:34:27 [kaz]
- ... how to describe complex action interaction models of the IoT world?
- 14:34:33 [kaz]
- ... Problem diagram
- 14:35:09 [kaz]
- ... single action request vs queued actions
- 14:35:29 [kaz]
- ... Proposal: Leverage on Thing Models and Action Thing Descriptions
- 14:36:09 [kaz]
- ... example codes
- 14:36:30 [kaz]
- ... Thing Description on the left side and Thing Model on the right side
- 14:36:55 [kaz]
- ... Proposal: GreenField (core profile?)
- 14:37:25 [kaz]
- ... Thing Description on the left side vs Action Thing Description on the right side
- 14:37:47 [kaz]
- ... Pros
- 14:37:56 [kaz]
- ... no id needs to be tracked
- 14:38:28 [kaz]
- ... can statically describe Action Request operations
- 14:38:39 [kaz]
- ... Green Field Devices ...
- 14:38:42 [kaz]
- ... Results
- 14:39:03 [kaz]
- s/Devices .../Device Exposed TMs/
- 14:39:48 [kaz]
- ... Green field device-consumer
- 14:40:11 [kaz]
- ... didn't add any changes to the node-wot implementation
- 14:40:23 [kaz]
- ... just add changes to the application side
- 14:41:52 [kaz]
- ... (shows an example code)
- 14:42:11 [kaz]
- ... Green field device-exposer
- 14:42:58 [kaz]
- ... Existing service / device TMs
- 14:43:13 [kaz]
- ... for existing devices, it's a bit more complicated
- 14:43:43 [kaz]
- ... Exposed Thing Model vs Action Description Model
- 14:44:02 [kaz]
- ... Existing service / device consumer
- 14:44:32 [kaz]
- ... What we need to standardize?
- 14:44:38 [kaz]
- ... common action model
- 14:44:48 [kaz]
- ... concept of Action Description
- 14:45:03 [kaz]
- ... TD keywords and semantics
- 14:45:13 [kaz]
- ... operation types for queues still needed
- 14:45:25 [Ege]
- q+
- 14:45:25 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:45:28 [kaz]
- q+
- 14:45:35 [kaz]
- ack e
- 14:46:41 [kaz]
- ek: if you standardize the model, we need to show what to implement
- 14:46:48 [McCool]
- q?
- 14:47:22 [kaz]
- ... how to generate the description?
- 14:48:03 [kaz]
- ca: you mean we don't need this model mapping within the Exposed Thing Model?
- 14:48:07 [kaz]
- ek: yes
- 14:48:19 [kaz]
- ... if we don't have an ID
- 14:48:25 [kaz]
- s/yes/right/
- 14:49:45 [kaz]
- kaz: in addition to the TD examples, we should have description on the use case and scenario too
- 14:49:55 [kaz]
- ... what kind of devices are handled here
- 14:50:10 [kaz]
- ... what kind of actions are queued to handle them, etc.
- 14:50:28 [kaz]
- ca: yes, didn't have time to describe that part
- 14:50:50 [kaz]
- mm: looks basic powerful approach
- 14:51:15 [kaz]
- q?
- 14:51:16 [kaz]
- ack k
- 14:51:22 [kaz]
- topic: Wrap-up
- 14:51:29 [kaz]
- mm: will create an issue for NHK
- 14:51:42 [kaz]
- ... ideally should have links for presentations
- 14:52:08 [kaz]
- ... next event is Open Day Day 2 on Thursday, Oct 14
- 14:52:16 [kaz]
- ... Netzo will join it. Right?
- 14:52:18 [kaz]
- sk: yes
- 14:52:35 [kaz]
- topic: Logistics
- 14:53:00 [kaz]
- mm: assuming we cancel all the calls other than the main call (and Editors call and Chairs call)
- 14:53:31 [kaz]
- s/main call/main call and PlugFest call/
- 14:53:43 [kaz]
- ... no TD call or Architecture call this week
- 14:53:49 [kaz]
- ... thanks a lot, everybody
- 14:54:01 [kaz]
- ... Takenaka's presentation was fabulous
- 14:54:05 [kaz]
- ... thanks again!
- 14:54:08 [kaz]
- [adjourned]
- 14:54:12 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft miutes
- 14:54:12 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft miutes', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help
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