09:04:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
09:04:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-personalization-irc
09:04:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:04:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #personalization
09:04:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
09:04:37 <trackbot> Date: 11 October 2021
09:04:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, start meeting
09:04:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
09:04:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Lionel_Wolberger
09:05:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
09:05:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> Chair: Lionel Wolberger
09:05:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
09:05:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ TPAC scheduling
09:05:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ Progress on the Personalization deck for TPAC
09:05:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ Symbols &  i18n LTR/RTL Update (Follow-up on i18n issue #144 actions Lionel, Matt, Charles)
09:06:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ CR template status
09:06:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda+ John's harmonization of Modules 2.0 and 3.0
09:06:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:03:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
14:03:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-personalization-irc
14:03:46 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:03:47 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Lionel_Wolberger_
14:04:03 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference
14:04:17 <becky> becky has joined #personalization
14:04:26 <becky> present+
14:04:35 <Lionel_Wolberger_> agenda?
14:05:00 <janina> present+
14:05:06 <Matthew_Atkinson> present+
14:05:13 <mike_beganyi> scribe: mike_beganyi
14:05:24 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:05:24 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- TPAC scheduling -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:06:04 <mike_beganyi> janina: not sure if schedule is posted yet.
14:06:37 <mike_beganyi> becky: will look that up
14:07:05 <mike_beganyi> janina: two hours later than this call for Monday the 25th for second meeting with COGA. is it possible?
14:07:47 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: TPAC COGA and personalization at noon NYC time the 25th?
14:07:57 <Matthew_Atkinson> Noon EST WFM
14:08:33 <mike_beganyi> janina: introducing what we do to COGA. don't need all present.
14:08:38 <mike_beganyi> becky: no schedule yet
14:08:41 <Roy> q+
14:09:15 <Roy> q-
14:09:24 <mike_beganyi> janina: TPAC is next week. presume no meeting on the 18th.
14:09:45 <mike_beganyi> janina: resume regular meetings on November 1
14:10:42 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: meeting with Silver? waiting and watch the e-mail list for updates
14:11:34 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Personalizing the Web for Better Accessibility
14:12:14 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: that's the meeting requested for Mon, Tues, or Thurs. 18th, 19th, 21st
14:12:49 <mike_beganyi> janina: we need to get cleared on our materials. who's chairing? Lionel, Sharon, Janina?
14:15:06 <mike_beganyi> becky: facilitator could do both
14:15:50 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: once time is set we will find chair. Sharon or Lionel. Chair TBD
14:16:15 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: second of Janina's question. are we taking questions in the midst of the presentation?
14:16:54 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: open to either (at the end or during)
14:17:38 <mike_beganyi> janina: only caution taking during. responsible to manage time of questions so that you can get to the end of the presentation. want to ensure getting through the whole deck
14:18:22 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: will monitor. will park questions until the end if they are larger
14:18:35 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:18:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Progress on the Personalization deck for TPAC -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:19:09 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: progress on the deck? thanks for all your work so far
14:20:43 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: coming together nicely. trying to keep it short and simple. some figures need updating. should be close to wrapping up after meeting with Lisa tomorrow.
14:21:39 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q?
14:21:42 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: testing the right-to-left (RTL). would be nice to have code sample. will ask Lisa about a good sample sentence
14:21:58 <CharlesL> q+
14:22:19 <mike_beganyi> ack CharlesL
14:22:42 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: can we get link to slide deck, please? want to check from low vision point-of-view
14:22:43 <Matthew_Atkinson> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/pull/199 - you can find the URL to the preview version from the PR
14:22:58 <Matthew_Atkinson> Preview URL is: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/tpac-2021-talk/talks/2021/tpac/index.html
14:24:40 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: Janina do you know how closed captioning will work? concern about blocking content
14:25:17 <mike_beganyi> janina: good point. will be manually done, not relying on auto-captioning
14:26:03 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: captioning obscuring content. had to investigate a previous presentation with W3C
14:27:21 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: shouldn't be much of a concern but there are a couple of slides which could be affected. will review and consider this. really good catch, Charles
14:28:01 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q?
14:31:05 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: feedback on presentation: I find it useful to show sample code (e.g. data-simplification). another slide that explains the attribute and its values. next slide is demo for eCommerce
14:31:28 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: this is where I mentioned migraines and it really got the point across during the demo.
14:32:20 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: author would mark up the personalization option in the demo. going through the demo really helps with the storytelling aspect.
14:32:24 <janina> q+
14:35:03 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: talked about how I have been presenting
14:35:35 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: liked the ideas. will consider adding more technical information.
14:36:46 <CharlesL> q+
14:37:34 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: there are three demos that show different user journeys so they cover a nice range
14:39:23 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q?
14:40:12 <mike_beganyi> janina: underscore the value of the sample code. W3C is very technical and the code would help the impact. good for emphasis. highlight the curb cut
14:40:16 <mike_beganyi> ack janina
14:41:09 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: just wanted to say "wow" Lionel. great presentation style. need, solution, code samples. also want to emphasize relevance of code samples. demos are great!
14:41:32 <mike_beganyi> ack CharlesL
14:41:54 <mike_beganyi> janina: should be publishing slide deck after TPAC
14:43:05 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q?
14:43:38 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: slides should be published, yes. will be available
14:43:49 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
14:43:49 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Symbols &  i18n LTR/RTL Update (Follow-up on i18n issue #144 actions Lionel, Matt, Charles) -- taken up [from Lionel_Wolberger]
14:45:10 <Matthew_Atkinson> URL for the email Lionel is summarizing: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2021Oct/0003.html
14:45:19 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: completed action. wrote summary to e-mails. information learned: consulted an expert in RTL languages. there are no LTR or RTL issues. exactly as John said but now we have expert backup. 1:1 ratio of words to symbols
14:45:19 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:45:25 <CharlesL> q+
14:45:39 <mike_beganyi> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:46:34 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: did some basic testing. haven't put code samples in. when flipped into RTL everything gets flipped. images come first just as LTR. positioning is exactly opposite which seems to be correct
14:46:57 <janina> q+ to offer vocabulary to describe rtl -- retrograde
14:47:32 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: we need to be careful with where the symbol is located. depending on positioning, that probably could be affected by changing writing direction
14:48:23 <Matthew_Atkinson> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:48:26 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: potential issues with top-down. will do more investigation
14:48:29 <mike_beganyi> ack CharlesL
14:48:42 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: thought there were some symbols for groups of words. is that not the case?
14:50:05 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: some symbols can capture multiple words. symbol boards the expert showed me were one or two symbols per word. expert said that symbols exist in isolation. they are not combined.
14:50:24 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: don't put two symbols together. separate symbols
14:50:31 <mike_beganyi> ack janina
14:50:31 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to offer vocabulary to describe rtl -- retrograde
14:51:09 <mike_beganyi> janina: "retrograde" as the term for things being the same LTR as RTL
14:51:47 <mike_beganyi> janina: don't want to be caught up in Bliss' nomenclature and process
14:52:36 <Matthew_Atkinson> q+
14:53:06 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: what people need are recipes and procedures according to expert.
14:55:17 <Matthew_Atkinson> I think this may be the site Lionel referred to: https://globalsymbols.com/
14:55:23 <janina> +1 to Lionel's suggestions
14:55:25 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: exciting conversation. recommended recipe. thought it could in combination with simplification
14:55:33 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q?
14:55:40 <mike_beganyi> ack Matthew_Atkinson
14:56:56 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: concerned about some messages. we need to be clear about the use case so that we can capture as wide an audience as possible initially
14:58:21 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: finding other symbols more useful than Bliss'
14:59:08 <mike_beganyi> janina: recipe is a great word. we want to support all use cases and mechanisms
14:59:12 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ARASAAC
14:59:26 <Lionel_Wolberger_> https://globalsymbols.com
14:59:41 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: this is a symbol set from the global symbols site
15:00:18 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: proposing using recipe instead of Alice in Wonderland. which recipe should we pick?
15:00:50 <mike_beganyi> janina: why not just use cup of tea as it has been around for a long time
15:01:51 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: maybe too simple. how about salsa?
15:03:22 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: Charles please get recipe to Matthew and involve Steve Lee
15:03:36 <mike_beganyi> CharlesL: will find and send forward
15:04:29 <mike_beganyi> Matthew_Atkinson: be mindful of licensing. ARASAAC seems to be creative commons and non-commercial. should be fine for W3C but may be an issue later
15:05:00 <mike_beganyi> Lionel_Wolberger: still some unanswered questions but have enough to mark up new content
15:06:11 <Matthew_Atkinson> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:06:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/10/11-personalization-minutes.html Matthew_Atkinson
15:09:56 <LisaSeemanKest> LisaSeemanKest has joined #personalization
15:13:58 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #personalization
16:55:08 <Roy_> Roy_ has joined #personalization