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15:00:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:00:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:00:27 <smaug> just a second, need to get more coffee
15:00:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210929T110000
15:00:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:01:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
15:02:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:02:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:04:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Notes with normative (SHOULD/MUST) statements https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/405
15:05:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Has a few pull requests from last meeting already, probably makes sense to review in order
15:05:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Make "Converting..." section normative https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/410
15:08:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: don't think we need to say anything about MUST/SHOULD implement both sets as it's implicit by being in the IDL
15:08:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: agree
15:09:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: just worried developers might think, because they're complementary, they don't need to
15:09:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: i think because it's in the IDL it's clear it's a SHOULD/MUST
15:10:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: happy to merge?
15:10:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [no objections]
15:11:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Move elements of pointerId informative note to normative text https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/411
15:14:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: not sure if we need to be more precise with "existing pointers", as just saying it must not be influences by any other top-level browsing context is a bit a handwavy
15:15:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: it's a very dense sentence, but i think it's ok as is
15:18:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on whether the now normative wording allows for mouse to always use same pointerId - it doesn't allow tracking across sites because it's the same, BUT the current wording doesn't seem to allow that]
15:20:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: maybe we can leave it as is
15:20:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: needs some tweaking, but for now we can merge
15:21:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: sorry, meant that we want to mention something about mouse
15:22:15 <mustaq> I meant adding the mouse case explicitly "has const id..."
15:23:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: think bringing forward the bit about fingerprinting/tracking, so it's clearer why we do all that. mouse can be fixed, as you can't track across sites.
15:24:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: we should mention that mouse pointer is special
15:27:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so how about also bringing forward the -1 value for non-pointer, then add something about UAs MAY reserve a pointerId for mouse. and then "for all other pointers, must be unique etc etc"
15:28:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: we have the ask about pens being recognised
15:30:14 <mustaq> I now see "a particular pointing device for the lifetime of the page" already covers the removed pen case nicely.
15:30:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i'll make another stab at this
15:31:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Move first part of the note about dispatched event order into normative text https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/412
15:39:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on whether first "should" should be a MUST, and the SHOULD should be a MUST as well]
15:40:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: "should resemble" > "must match"
15:40:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: i think that captures it yes
15:41:03 <mustaq> Or "the UA must maintain the order..."
15:41:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Make note about UAs not firing compat events if they support touch events normative https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/413
15:44:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: i think the SHOULD NOT should be MUST NOT
15:44:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: the last sentence about touch or pen worries me
15:45:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: it's redundant now that i look at it. TE don't fire for mouse
15:47:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Make note about buttons/buttons and compat events normative https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/414
15:48:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: again, change SHOULD to MUST
15:48:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> since sending agenda i made two more PRs related to this
15:49:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Remove may/should from note about complex gestures https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/415
15:50:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> still remains a note, just removes the trigger words may and should. doesn't change the meaning of what we're saying
15:50:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> smaug: this is fine
15:51:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> * Reword legacy properties note to remove the "must" https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/416
15:54:10 <mustaq> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=692709#c5
15:54:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: as this is about properties that we don't define in IDL, i personally don't care if some UA decides to keep those legacy things as long as it doesn't interfere
15:57:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: make changes to the PRs as discussed, tackle the remaining ones in #405
15:58:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, make minutes world-visible
15:58:05 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', Patrick_H_Lauke.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:58:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagents, make logs world-visible
15:58:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> urgh.
15:58:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:58:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, create minutes
15:58:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:58:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:59:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:59:01 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:59:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: make changes to the PRs as discussed, tackle the remaining ones in #405 [1]
15:59:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-irc#T15-57-44