IRC log of pointerevents on 2021-09-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:00:00 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
- 15:00:00 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-irc
- 15:00:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Meeting: PEWG
- 15:00:20 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
- 15:00:27 [smaug]
- just a second, need to get more coffee
- 15:00:27 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210929T110000
- 15:00:51 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
- 15:01:45 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
- 15:02:19 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ smaug
- 15:02:32 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ mustaq
- 15:04:42 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Notes with normative (SHOULD/MUST) statements https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/405
- 15:05:52 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Has a few pull requests from last meeting already, probably makes sense to review in order
- 15:05:56 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- * Make "Converting..." section normative https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/410
- 15:08:48 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: don't think we need to say anything about MUST/SHOULD implement both sets as it's implicit by being in the IDL
- 15:08:50 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: agree
- 15:09:11 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: just worried developers might think, because they're complementary, they don't need to
- 15:09:33 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: i think because it's in the IDL it's clear it's a SHOULD/MUST
- 15:10:48 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: happy to merge?
- 15:10:52 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [no objections]
- 15:11:02 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- * Move elements of pointerId informative note to normative text https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/411
- 15:14:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: not sure if we need to be more precise with "existing pointers", as just saying it must not be influences by any other top-level browsing context is a bit a handwavy
- 15:15:56 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: it's a very dense sentence, but i think it's ok as is
- 15:18:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [discussion on whether the now normative wording allows for mouse to always use same pointerId - it doesn't allow tracking across sites because it's the same, BUT the current wording doesn't seem to allow that]
- 15:20:03 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: maybe we can leave it as is
- 15:20:10 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: needs some tweaking, but for now we can merge
- 15:21:54 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: sorry, meant that we want to mention something about mouse
- 15:22:15 [mustaq]
- I meant adding the mouse case explicitly "has const id..."
- 15:23:55 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: think bringing forward the bit about fingerprinting/tracking, so it's clearer why we do all that. mouse can be fixed, as you can't track across sites.
- 15:24:55 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: we should mention that mouse pointer is special
- 15:27:40 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: so how about also bringing forward the -1 value for non-pointer, then add something about UAs MAY reserve a pointerId for mouse. and then "for all other pointers, must be unique etc etc"
- 15:28:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: we have the ask about pens being recognised
- 15:30:14 [mustaq]
- I now see "a particular pointing device for the lifetime of the page" already covers the removed pen case nicely.
- 15:30:42 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: i'll make another stab at this
- 15:31:45 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- * Move first part of the note about dispatched event order into normative text https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/412
- 15:39:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [discussion on whether first "should" should be a MUST, and the SHOULD should be a MUST as well]
- 15:40:14 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: "should resemble" > "must match"
- 15:40:21 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: i think that captures it yes
- 15:41:03 [mustaq]
- Or "the UA must maintain the order..."
- 15:41:09 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- * Make note about UAs not firing compat events if they support touch events normative https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/413
- 15:44:10 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: i think the SHOULD NOT should be MUST NOT
- 15:44:26 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- mustaq: the last sentence about touch or pen worries me
- 15:45:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: it's redundant now that i look at it. TE don't fire for mouse
- 15:47:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Make note about buttons/buttons and compat events normative https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/414
- 15:48:09 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: again, change SHOULD to MUST
- 15:48:55 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- since sending agenda i made two more PRs related to this
- 15:49:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- * Remove may/should from note about complex gestures https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/415
- 15:50:22 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- still remains a note, just removes the trigger words may and should. doesn't change the meaning of what we're saying
- 15:50:37 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- smaug: this is fine
- 15:51:04 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- * Reword legacy properties note to remove the "must" https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/416
- 15:54:10 [mustaq]
- https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=692709#c5
- 15:54:54 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: as this is about properties that we don't define in IDL, i personally don't care if some UA decides to keep those legacy things as long as it doesn't interfere
- 15:57:44 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: make changes to the PRs as discussed, tackle the remaining ones in #405
- 15:58:05 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, make minutes world-visible
- 15:58:05 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', Patrick_H_Lauke. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 15:58:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagents, make logs world-visible
- 15:58:19 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- urgh.
- 15:58:31 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 15:58:37 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 15:58:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
- 15:58:45 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 15:59:01 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- rrsagent, bye
- 15:59:01 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
- 15:59:01 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: make changes to the PRs as discussed, tackle the remaining ones in #405 [1]
- 15:59:01 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/09/29-pointerevents-irc#T15-57-44