13:55:33 RRSAgent has joined #wot-arch 13:55:33 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-wot-arch-irc 14:00:02 mlagally_ has joined #wot-arch 14:05:10 regrets+ Sebastian 14:05:33 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ben_Francis, Michael_Lagally, Tomoaki_Mizushima 14:07:08 Mizushima has joined #wot-arch 14:08:05 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Architecture_WebConf#Sept_16th.2C_2021 14:10:18 topic: Minutes 14:10:23 -> https://www.w3.org/2021/09/09-wot-arch-minutes.html Sep-9 14:10:41 ml: (goes through the minutes) 14:14:58 ... duplicated section title for PR 92 14:15:04 kaz: just removed extra one 14:15:07 ml: ok 14:15:09 approved 14:16:11 topic: PRs 14:16:16 subtopic: PR 600 14:16:48 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/600 PR 600 - WIP: Add Description and Model Section 14:16:53 ml: (look into the PR) 14:17:05 ... let's wait for McCool's participation 14:17:31 subtopic: PR 592 14:17:57 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/592 PR 592 - Section on profiles 14:18:05 ml: (look into the changes) 14:19:15 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/592.html#wot-profiles Preview - 8.3 Profiles 14:19:23 ml: would suggest we merge this 14:19:54 ... any opinions? 14:20:27 bf: not really keen on this specific description but no strong opinions 14:20:59 q+ 14:21:49 kaz: don't think "WoT Profile" itself is one of the WoT Building Blocks 14:22:08 ... so should go to another section than "8. WoT Building Blocks" 14:22:11 ml: good point 14:24:38 kaz: maybe part of the "1. Introduction" section following a simple leading text saying "Also the WoT Profiles document defines a limited set of the WoT capability." 14:25:22 ml: or might be a separate section 9 14:25:29 ack k 14:27:11 bf: what about "WoT Discovery"? Is it one of the WoT Building Blocks? 14:27:13 kaz 14:27:34 s/kaz/kaz: think it's OK to have "WoT Discovery" as one of the WoT Building Blocks 14:28:07 ... but "WoT Profile" is by definition a set of limited parts of the "WoT Building Blocks" 14:31:00 ... so it's strange to have a subsection for that within section "8. WoT Building BLocks" 14:31:55 ml: how about putting the proposed text as a separate section 9 following "8. WoT Buidling Blocks"? 14:32:36 kaz: I'm Ok with that but we should review the whole structure of the WoT Architecture spec later again 14:32:38 ml: ok 14:32:56 (merged) 14:33:15 subtopic: PR 603 14:33:48 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/603 PR 603 - WIP: Define and Discuss "Hubs" 14:34:03 ml: need more discussions 14:34:29 topic: WoT Profile 14:34:40 s/topic: PRs/topic: WoT Architecture/ 14:34:48 subtopic: PR 94 14:35:04 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/94 PR 94 - time format - initial draft 14:35:11 ml: (look into the PR) 14:37:27 kaz: there is an internal server error maybe due to the invalidness 14:37:49 ... we can check the HTML by validator later 14:38:37 bf: any data format restriction for profile, btw? 14:39:02 ... if the requirement is for canonical time notation 14:39:41 ... wondering about usage of ms-based times 14:40:15 ml: that's popular within the UNIX context 14:40:40 bf: we do use UTC-based format, though 14:41:05 ... don't have a strong opinions about this PR itself 14:41:40 kaz: in that case, we can merge this PR itself 14:41:52 ... and then create another issue about further questions 14:41:56 bf: ok 14:42:13 kaz: and we should check the resulted HTML using validator :) 14:45:37 ml: ok 14:45:41 (merged) 14:45:53 topic: PR 92 14:46:12 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/92 PR 92 - Define protocol binding for events - closes #42 14:46:26 ml: (goes through the PR) 14:46:48 ... this is very browser-specific 14:47:06 ... e.g., we don't use "user agent" as a client for WoT 14:48:51 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-profile/92/f1ec8e2...benfrancis:34d8f6c.html#events diff 14:49:36 q? 14:49:41 q+ 14:50:00 present+ Michael_Koster 14:50:20 mjk has joined #wot-arch 14:50:49 bf: that's a common way to handle SSE 14:50:59 ... timestamp is missing, though 14:51:18 ... need to include timestamps in the schema 14:51:48 ... you do get timestamps on the client side 14:52:11 q? 14:52:18 q? 14:53:36 kaz: if this proposed description itself is OK, we can merge this PR itself 14:53:50 ... and then should ask the node-wot guys to review it 14:54:07 ... and also should think about how to deal with timestamps based on that mechanism 14:54:09 ack k 14:54:16 bf: yeah 14:54:52 ... SSE is not perfect but the options are quite limited for event handling 14:55:12 q+ 14:55:33 ack mjk 14:55:56 mk: needs to be some metadata 14:56:08 ... delimited by some application 14:56:16 ... not really part of the protocol 14:56:37 ... maybe that is where to put the timestamps 14:57:35 bf: we're working based on some constraints with the existing implementations 15:02:55 (some more discussions) 15:05:24 bf: don't disagree putting timestamps into payload 15:07:10 ml: would support this PR itself 15:08:00 bf: would be good to have feedback from the implementers 15:11:16 ml: let's file a separate issue for timestamps 15:11:57 mk: btw, we need to have some event handling mechanism for the Plugfest. Right? 15:12:05 bf: yes, I'm also implementing something 15:12:50 q? 15:13:29 kaz: btw, Koster, can you also provide something on event handling for the upcoming Plugfest? 15:14:09 mk: if the scope is narrow enough, could work on something 15:14:40 kaz: great. Toumura-san has set up the VPN server, and we should have discussion on the detail next Wednesday 15:15:27 ml: (created new Issues on timestamps) 15:15:44 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/100 for events 15:15:53 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/101 for actions 15:16:05 ml: and then let's merge the PR 92 itself 15:16:07 (merged) 15:16:31 subtopic: PR 91 15:16:48 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/91 PR 91 - Example TD and canonical TD for Core Profile - closes #90 15:16:51 bf: still draft 15:17:00 ml: I'm a big fan of examples :) 15:17:09 kaz: me too ;) 15:17:50 -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-profile/91/f1ec8e2...benfrancis:cefa5cb.html#properties diff 15:19:28 bf: would be better to rename the title of "Example Canonical Thing Description" 15:19:38 ... but the concept here is 15:19:50 ... the first example is about basic TD 15:20:42 ... and the later example is about how a Consumer conforming to the Core Profile would interpret the example Thing Description 15:21:04 ... hopefully not mandate for Web Things to expose 15:21:09 ... just a summary 15:21:28 s/summary/informative summary/ 15:21:59 ml: ok 15:22:48 subtopic: PR 85 15:23:04 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/pull/85 PR 85 - Create echonetExampleTD.td.jsonld 15:23:13 ml: example TD for ECHONET 15:23:16 q? 15:23:18 q+ 15:23:29 bf: we could think about possible binding 15:26:19 kaz: think we should generate this kind of example TD based on their (=ECHONET's) own proposal rather than we generate something for them 15:27:20 ... we can do that based on their generated TD for the upcoming Plugfest based on their own Device Description standard (which is quite similar to TD) 15:27:34 ... and then think about possible binding based on that example 15:28:48 ... at least we should ask them to review this example if we want to include this instead of their own generated example 15:31:03 ... note that Ege created this PR in July to help ECHONET work on the possible binding 15:31:31 ... but ECHONET themselves are joining the Plugfest in 2 weeks 15:31:59 ... and providing actual resources including TD and Binding Templates 15:32:09 ... so we should look into that as well as this PR 15:33:27 bf: wondering if ECHONET devices are conforming to the WoT specs 15:33:48 ... including the data constraints 15:33:58 kaz: yeah, we should see the difference during the Plugfest 15:35:25 bf: would be great if they could follow the Core Profile, but maybe a bit different 15:35:59 ml: maybe there is a possibility we need another profile for ECHONET 15:36:42 ... why don't we revisit this when Ege is available? 15:37:20 kaz: yeah, we can revisit this PR after the Plugfest with Ege 15:37:23 ml: right 15:38:12 subtopic: Issue 99 15:38:35 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/issues/99 Issue 99 - How does a Consumer conforming to the Core Profile get a list of ongoing actions? 15:38:43 bf: (summarizes the issue) 15:39:28 ... here is no way to get a list of ongoing actions now 15:40:07 ... so only the Consumer who invoked the action knows the URL of the actionStatus resource 15:41:16 q+ 15:41:30 q+ 15:42:00 ml: not everybody is capable to implement this feature 15:42:10 ... do we really need to standardize this? 15:43:24 kaz: wondering about the use cases for this 15:43:47 ... maybe it might be even more useful to have a complete history of actions depending on use cases 15:43:58 bf: regarding Lagally's question 15:44:19 ... nothing on authorization within Core Profile 15:44:40 ... only the Consumer which invoked the action can cancel the action currently 15:45:52 kaz: ok 15:45:57 ... understood 15:46:54 ... and my point is for example for a manager servient within a big building management system might want to know the whole history including completed actions to handle the errors for maintenance purposes 15:47:56 bf: in the case of actions, when you request an action, that require a resource 15:48:14 ... the way you cancel the action is removing that resource 15:48:51 ... currently the mechanism is ambiguous within the spec 15:50:25 ... kind of side effect of mapping actions to REST API 15:52:03 ml: need some more discussion 15:52:23 kaz: anyway, Iv 15:53:14 s/Iv/I've understood my point should be discussed as a separate issue based on some concrete use case description, e.g., center console for smart building/city services 15:53:56 ... probably out of the scope of the "Core Profile", though 15:54:51 topic: AOB? 15:54:52 (none) 15:55:05 [adjourned] 15:55:11 rrsagent, make log 15:55:11 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make log', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:55:24 s/rrsagent, make log// 15:55:38 rrsagent, make log public 15:55:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:55:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 17:07:39 regrets+ McCool 17:07:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:07:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/16-wot-arch-minutes.html kaz 18:02:41 Zakim has left #wot-arch