13:41:39 RRSAgent has joined #wpwg 13:41:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-wpwg-irc 13:41:43 Meeting: Web Payments Working Group 13:41:46 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda-20210902 13:41:53 Scribe: Ian 13:42:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 13:58:32 present+ Ian_Jacobs 14:00:51 present+ Arman_Aygen 14:01:15 present+ Jean-Michel_Girard 14:01:59 present+ 14:02:26 present+ Robert_Savage 14:02:35 present+ Stephen_McGruer 14:02:39 present+ Adrian_Hope-Bailie 14:03:18 AdrianHB_ has joined #wpwg 14:03:52 present+ Werner 14:03:55 present+ Susan_Pandy 14:03:56 JMGirard has joined #wpwg 14:04:02 Topic: SPC Status 14:04:22 1) SPC => FPWD 14:05:12 present+ Clinton_Allen 14:05:18 werner has joined #wpwg 14:05:27 present+ Gerhard 14:06:09 Ian: Any initial test work? 14:06:19 Stephen: Yes, we have about 1/2 the coverage I'd like for a launch 14:06:21 clinton has joined #wpwg 14:06:31 ...we are doing our work in "Web Platform Tests" 14:06:41 https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt 14:06:53 ...we need automation to get the rest of the way 14:06:55 ...web driver 14:07:14 -> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/tree/master/secure-payment-confirmation SPC test 14:07:34 -> https://wpt.fyi/results/secure-payment-confirmation?label=experimental&label=master&aligned 14:08:08 -> https://github.com/w3c/wpsig/blob/gh-pages/spc-psd2.md Using SPC to fulfill PSD2 Requirements for SCA and Dynamic Linking 14:09:17 Gerhard has joined #wpwg 14:10:16 q? 14:10:43 IaN: One idea is to develop tests to help fulfill expectations of financial institutions, on top of web platform tests 14:11:41 q+ 14:11:47 Ian: Need to have some compliance conversations. 14:11:49 ack Ger 14:12:15 present+ Nick 14:13:04 q? 14:13:09 Ian: I think the answer is "there should be specificity" 14:13:29 Gerhard: You can get an eMVCo "sticker" but I don't think you can get a sticker for "SCA" 14:13:36 q+ to respond about stickers 14:13:47 Gerhard:...you commission a reputable and independent security company to provide their opinion 14:14:23 Ian: Like who? 14:14:39 Gerhard: I will find the name of an EU security firm 14:15:36 Gerhard: FIDO Alliance has done a lot in this space. Keep checking with them. 14:15:57 ...maybe a collaboration with FIDO would be helpful 14:16:51 q- 14:17:36 NickTR: There is no standard regulatory path; each country has its own competent authorities. I'm not aware of a certification regime to get a "sticker" about SCA. 14:17:59 q? 14:18:24 Ian: Any implementation expectations to set? 14:18:49 Stephen: We are looking to ship in M95 (MacOS, Windows) ... not guaranteed. 14:19:02 ...this is shippable for experimentation but not done. 14:19:04 zakim, agenda? 14:19:04 I see nothing on the agenda 14:19:36 Topic: Basic Card 14:19:44 Topic: Charter 14:19:52 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2021Aug/0044.html Draft charter 14:20:47 topic: Payment Request API 14:21:05 scribenick: nicktr 14:21:27 AdrianHB_ has joined #wpwg 14:21:35 ian: Marcos is working on cleaning up the tests and spec for final move to PR 14:21:54 ...we've not received any further public comments since removing features 14:22:07 Topic: Basic Card 14:23:45 ian: Klarna has a interesting use case. If there is a standardised format, then as an App provider, you can send transactions without the merchant having to make changes. Deprecating basic card removes that ability 14:24:21 ...we also had work going on tokenised card format, which was superseded by SRC, which was superseded by SPC 14:24:45 scribe: Ian 14:24:49 Ian: What are the use cases? 14:25:06 Gerhard has joined #wpwg 14:25:19 AdrianHB: What I'd love to solve for is instrument selection. Not necessarily storing anything sensitive, but storing a handle that makes it easy for users to choose a payment instrument. 14:25:32 ...but in a generalized fashion so that it can be used for a variety of payment methods (e.g., SEPA) 14:26:09 ...it would be useful if the browser could store that information and for browsers to provide a selection UX. 14:26:28 ...instead of choosing a payment app, simpler: choose a payment instrument. 14:26:44 q? 14:26:46 ...and then, for example, SPC could be used for authentication, or the user could be redirected to a payment provider page. 14:26:55 ...this would be an improvement beyond autofill. 14:27:06 ...and browsers could sync across browser instances 14:27:58 q+ 14:28:12 Jean-Michel: The big problem for us is regarding the merchant. How does the merchant know what the user has to pay with? 14:28:40 ...best solution for us is to use a PSP to propose contracts to the browser, and for the browser to present what can be used to pay. 14:29:07 ...another issue we have regards merchants that have more than one PSP. How do they know which PSP to use based on what the customer can pay with? 14:29:44 ...we don't have any proposals at this time. 14:30:04 ...we also have some tokenized services.... 14:30:11 q? 14:30:15 ack Gerhard 14:30:18 Chair: NickTR 14:31:08 Gerhard: We've been doing a lot of thinking around open banking. One thing that it does well is move the user from the merchant domain to the banking domain for instrument selection. 14:31:12 ...the merchant doesn't get to know 14:32:24 ...I think that open banking and SRC are going to be dominant models, where the user interacts with a party that returns (opaque) data to the merchant. 14:32:30 ...standardized fields might be: 14:32:32 * Token 14:32:35 * Expiry date 14:32:46 * Dynamic data 14:32:59 ...and you may need notification of payment with an account push. 14:33:01 q? 14:33:04 ..summarizing use cases: 14:33:09 * Instrument selection 14:33:20 * Notification payment on the way 14:33:24 * Authentication (SPC) 14:34:39 ...within instrument selection, there are push and pull variations. 14:35:44 4'th is SPC as defined today (payment consent) 14:36:06 NickTR: We have an architecture of Payment Request and Payment Handlers (with canMakePayment), with computation of the interaction of what is accepted and what is available. For push payments, the payment response data is a handle that something is underway 14:40:32 q? 14:41:21 Gerhard: Use case I have in mind is "guest checkout" to get a tokenization process going. 14:41:51 ...I think we might make progress with a less generic solution. 14:41:53 q> 14:41:55 q? 14:42:03 s/q>// 14:44:41 q+ 14:44:55 Gerhard: Some users are happy to store card info in their browser. 14:45:27 q? 14:45:29 ...I think that browsers already provide some selection mechanism (to-fill) 14:45:32 ack smcgruer_[EST] 14:45:34 s/to-fill/auto-fill/ 14:46:04 smcgruer_[EST]: I think this is an interesting topic. As a user, I observe that digital wallets have not yet won! 14:46:24 ...I assume it's a chicken and egg problem (adoption only if ubiquitously used by users) 14:46:52 ...I heard Gerhard's proposal is a "marketplace" with multiple backends. 14:47:15 ...I agree that merchants want to control the UX. Digital wallets control *everything* for the merchant, which is more than what Basic Card offered. 14:47:34 q+ to comment on background of basic card vs payment handler 14:47:45 ack AdrianHB 14:47:45 AdrianHB_, you wanted to comment on background of basic card vs payment handler 14:48:53 AdrianHB: Recall that the two problems we set out to solve originally were for browser-stored data (especially on mobile due to data capture friction) and digital wallet connections. 14:48:56 q? 14:50:18 q+ 14:50:43 AdrianHB: Maybe we need a simpler PR API that still has payment apps. But I see challenge of getting more browser adoption. 14:51:04 q? 14:51:05 ack clinton 14:51:29 Clinton: Where is adoption documented? 14:51:51 https://caniuse.com/payment-request 14:54:47 https://www.w3.org/Payments/WG/charter-2021.html 14:54:59 "Payment Handler API and Payment Method Manifest do not yet have sufficient cross-browser implementation experience to advance to Recommendation. However, the implementation in Chromium browsers enables experimentation and the Working Group intends to maintain them as Working Drafts. If the implementation landscape changes, the Working Group will revisit the question of advancement to Recommendation and re-charter as needed." 14:58:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 14:59:21 Topic: Next meeting 14:59:29 16 september 14:59:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/02-wpwg-minutes.html Ian 15:00:55 zakim, bye 15:00:55 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Ian_Jacobs, Arman_Aygen, Jean-Michel_Girard, benoit, Robert_Savage, Stephen_McGruer, Adrian_Hope-Bailie, Werner, Susan_Pandy, 15:00:55 Zakim has left #wpwg 15:00:57 rrsagent, bye 15:00:57 I see no action items