IRC log of pointerevents on 2021-09-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/09/01-pointerevents-irc
- 14:49:16 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Meeting: PEWG
- 14:49:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
- 14:49:28 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
- 14:49:36 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
- 14:50:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210901T110000
- 14:50:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
- 15:00:32 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ smaug
- 15:01:56 [mustaq]
- present+ mustaq
- 15:02:27 [flackr]
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- 15:02:30 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- present+ flackr
- 15:02:48 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Add note about rounding coordinates for click, auxclick, contextmenu https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/404
- 15:05:29 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: change since last time is changing "round" to "Math.floor" reference
- 15:05:41 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: I think this is good, but we need similar in compat mouse events
- 15:05:52 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: should do separately
- 15:06:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: can do, but then we should cross-reference in this bit ("similar to compat mouse events...")
- 15:10:31 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [discussion on how we should say the same in compat mouse events or not]
- 15:11:07 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: fundamentally, wonder if we can extract the whole discussion on flooring to a new top-level section (similar to our section 12 Converting tiltX/tiltY...) and then cross-reference from both those places to this
- 15:11:37 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: I'd suggest merging THIS PR now (as it does other things that we want to retain), and doing a follow-up PR that does the abstraction to a new section
- 15:12:03 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: create PR for a new section that abstracts/generalises coordinate conversion and adds cross-references
- 15:13:03 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- TOPIC: Notes with normative (SHOULD/MUST) statements https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/405
- 15:15:08 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: let's go through these one by one, should hopefully not take too long...
- 15:15:11 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#dom-pointerevent-pointerid
- 15:26:58 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- [discussion of the weird "conditional MUST" and whether we want the whole note normative]
- 15:27:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: suggest adding the second requirement to the normative text before the note
- 15:27:29 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: "This identifier MUST be unique from all other active pointers in the top-level browsing context (as defined by [HTML]) at the time"
- 15:28:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- add to this sentence: ", and the identifier MUST NOT be influence by any other top-level browsing context"
- 15:28:39 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: I think, from the last bit of the note, the concern is tracking across pages if the id is the same
- 15:32:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: so with the suggested addition above, we can then remove the problematic "However ..." onwards from the note and leave it at that
- 15:34:51 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- in addition, changing that "starting from 1" to "starting from 0" (since we moved the reserved value from 0 to -1 ages ago)
- 15:35:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- first note on https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#dom-pointerevent-getpredictedevents
- 15:36:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- my take: that whole note should be normative
- 15:36:01 [mustaq]
- Correction for above: "ages ago" -> "few months ago" :)
- 15:36:03 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: that seems right
- 15:36:15 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- "few months ago" is aeons in internet years :)
- 15:37:06 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: we can remove the "Implementations SHOULD provide both" as it's not needed
- 15:37:19 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: yes it's a truism, as those attributes are part of the spec
- 15:41:31 [mustaq]
- https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/321
- 15:44:17 [mustaq]
- Past discussion about default values: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/320
- 15:46:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: so ripping out the whole second sentence ("When an untrusted...") and change the WebIDL to have "=0" for tiltx/tilty/azimuthAngle/altitudeAngle?
- 15:46:27 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: yes, I think so
- 15:49:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: I quite like the opening sentence that sets the scene in that note, that explains where altitude/azimuth came from (touch events)
- 15:49:28 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: maybe ripping this out and moving it to the start of section 12 Converting ...
- 15:50:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: but the last sentence about Math.round is important
- 15:50:13 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: can't move that sentence to section 12 as the whole section is non-normative
- 15:54:03 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: examples are definitely non-normative per the preamble. the example code for conversion is what we didn't want normative
- 15:54:17 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- so we could make section 12 normative, that still keeps the example code non-normative
- 15:54:28 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- and we can then move Math.round sentence to the start of this
- 15:56:09 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Mustaq: even the calculation process should be normative, the output should be the same
- 15:56:12 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: agree
- 15:56:23 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: but examples are non-normative by definition
- 15:56:34 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: we could make this a normative algorithm
- 15:59:34 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: so should we change "The following basic code provides an initial suggested approach for converting these values." to something like "User agents MUST use the following algorithm for converting these values"
- 15:59:39 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: yes
- 15:59:49 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Olli: looking for other specs with similar algorithms
- 16:00:00 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Rob: web animations has heavy ones
- 16:00:28 [flackr]
- as an example, https://www.w3.org/TR/web-animations-1/#calculating-the-active-time
- 16:01:42 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: so to recap, make section 12 normative, move first sentence of the note (that sets the scene) to start of section 12, change the sentence to say this is the algorithm
- 16:02:31 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: i might make a PR for these two already. meanwhile if you want to look at the remaining ones, leave a comment in thread
- 16:02:54 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- ACTION: make PR for first two notes mentioned in #405
- 16:04:43 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
- Patrick: sorry, overran, but this was good ... as painful as this discussion on notes and SHOULD/MUST is, it's cleaning up some things that have been lingering in the spec text for a while. speak to you all in 2 weeks' time
- 16:04:58 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
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- 16:05:04 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
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- 16:05:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/01-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
- 16:05:11 [Patrick_H_Lauke]
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