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14:49:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
14:49:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
14:49:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
14:49:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
14:50:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210901T110000
14:50:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ Patrick_H_Lauke
15:00:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:01:56 <mustaq> present+ mustaq
15:02:27 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:02:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:02:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Add note about rounding coordinates for click, auxclick, contextmenu https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/404
15:05:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: change since last time is changing "round" to "Math.floor" reference
15:05:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I think this is good, but we need similar in compat mouse events
15:05:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: should do separately
15:06:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: can do, but then we should cross-reference in this bit ("similar to compat mouse events...")
15:10:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on how we should say the same in compat mouse events or not]
15:11:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: fundamentally, wonder if we can extract the whole discussion on flooring to a new top-level section (similar to our section 12 Converting tiltX/tiltY...) and then cross-reference from both those places to this
15:11:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I'd suggest merging THIS PR now (as it does other things that we want to retain), and doing a follow-up PR that does the abstraction to a new section
15:12:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: create PR for a new section that abstracts/generalises coordinate conversion and adds cross-references
15:13:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Notes with normative (SHOULD/MUST) statements https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/405
15:15:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: let's go through these one by one, should hopefully not take too long...
15:15:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#dom-pointerevent-pointerid
15:26:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion of the weird "conditional MUST" and whether we want the whole note normative]
15:27:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: suggest adding the second requirement to the normative text before the note
15:27:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: "This identifier MUST be unique from all other active pointers in the top-level browsing context (as defined by [HTML]) at the time"
15:28:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> add to this sentence: ", and the identifier MUST NOT be influence by any other top-level browsing context"
15:28:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I think, from the last bit of the note, the concern is tracking across pages if the id is the same
15:32:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so with the suggested addition above, we can then remove the problematic "However ..." onwards from the note and leave it at that
15:34:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> in addition, changing that "starting from 1" to "starting from 0" (since we moved the reserved value from 0 to -1 ages ago)
15:35:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> first note on https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#dom-pointerevent-getpredictedevents
15:36:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> my take: that whole note should be normative
15:36:01 <mustaq> Correction for above: "ages ago" -> "few months ago" :)
15:36:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: that seems right
15:36:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> "few months ago" is aeons in internet years :)
15:37:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: we can remove the "Implementations SHOULD provide both" as it's not needed
15:37:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: yes it's a truism, as those attributes are part of the spec
15:41:31 <mustaq> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/321
15:44:17 <mustaq> Past discussion about default values: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/320
15:46:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so ripping out the whole second sentence ("When an untrusted...") and change the WebIDL to have "=0" for tiltx/tilty/azimuthAngle/altitudeAngle?
15:46:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: yes, I think so
15:49:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I quite like the opening sentence that sets the scene in that note, that explains where altitude/azimuth came from (touch events)
15:49:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: maybe ripping this out and moving it to the start of section 12 Converting ...
15:50:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: but the last sentence about Math.round is important
15:50:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: can't move that sentence to section 12 as the whole section is non-normative
15:54:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: examples are definitely non-normative per the preamble. the example code for conversion is what we didn't want normative
15:54:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> so we could make section 12 normative, that still keeps the example code non-normative
15:54:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> and we can then move Math.round sentence to the start of this
15:56:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: even the calculation process should be normative, the output should be the same
15:56:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: agree
15:56:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: but examples are non-normative by definition
15:56:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we could make this a normative algorithm
15:59:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so should we change "The following basic code provides an initial suggested approach for converting these values." to something like "User agents MUST use the following algorithm for converting these values"
15:59:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: yes
15:59:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: looking for other specs with similar algorithms
16:00:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: web animations has heavy ones
16:00:28 <flackr> as an example, https://www.w3.org/TR/web-animations-1/#calculating-the-active-time
16:01:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so to recap, make section 12 normative, move first sentence of the note (that sets the scene) to start of section 12, change the sentence to say this is the algorithm
16:02:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i might make a PR for these two already. meanwhile if you want to look at the remaining ones, leave a comment in thread
16:02:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: make PR for first two notes mentioned in #405
16:04:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: sorry, overran, but this was good ... as painful as this discussion on notes and SHOULD/MUST is, it's cleaning up some things that have been lingering in the spec text for a while. speak to you all in 2 weeks' time
16:04:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:05:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, create minutes
16:05:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/09/01-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
16:05:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible