19:03:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
19:03:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-aria-at-irc
19:03:38 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
19:03:43 <Matt_King> present+
19:03:50 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
19:04:07 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group
19:04:19 <jongund> present+ jongund
19:04:31 <Matt_King> present+ Hadi
19:04:32 <boazsender> boazsender has joined #aria-at
19:04:38 <Matt_King> present+ James
19:04:49 <Matt_King> present+ Alysa
19:04:50 <boazsender> present+ Boaz Sender, Bocoup
19:04:51 <michael_fairchild> present+
19:05:00 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
19:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
19:05:45 <Matt_King> TOPIC: App Development Update
19:05:48 <jongund> scribe: jongund
19:06:31 <jongund> MK: A new version of app is available, mostly back end changes: https://aria-at.w3.org/test-queue
19:06:59 <Joe_Humbert> Joe_Humbert has joined #aria-at
19:07:08 <jongund> MK: A new data model has been implemented to allow more flexibility in using the data
19:07:18 <Joe_Humbert> present+
19:07:43 <jongund> MK: The next thing for the app is the report page, it will not be different than the old page, but it is being connected to the new back end
19:08:09 <jongund> ST: The settings page is ready, there are no reports yet
19:09:07 <jongund> ST: We have been looking at a large refactoring of the backend, I am happy to have shorter release times going forward
19:09:34 <jongund> MK: There will be more frequent updates
19:09:57 <jongund> MK: The very next thing is the report pages and there are other things that need to prioritize
19:10:06 <jongund> MK: We hope to be running tests soon
19:10:37 <jongund> ST: Another feature is adding testers is much easier, we have total control
19:10:49 <jongund> ST: Who else would like to be a tester
19:11:18 <jongund> JS: I added a member of our team as a tester, what does the deploy look like...
19:11:49 <jongund> ST: Deployment is manual, there are some expectations on testers, we will discuss a process for merging..
19:11:56 <jongund> JS: Sounds great
19:12:06 <jongund> MK: Spend some time how on this now?
19:12:19 <jongund> JS: That could be an off line discussion
19:12:59 <jongund> ST: Before I promise on deply speed when new person is added, who approves it?  Can they just be added?
19:13:28 <jongund> MK: We have not talked about the process about adding testers, but people on the call ...
19:13:37 <jongund> MK: That is a really good discussion
19:13:52 <jongund> JS: Maybe talk about it next week, but it is easier
19:14:23 <jongund> MK: That is part of the on boarding process, people need to have an understanding of what is expected
19:14:43 <jongund> JS: Are you volunteering to write it?
19:14:53 <jongund> MK: Let's talk about that next week
19:15:18 <jongund> MK: Do we have anything to say about automation MF?
19:15:23 <jongund> MF: Not at this time
19:15:41 <jongund> MK: JS is there any plans on what you want to share
19:16:05 <jongund> JS: Focusing on test plans for the new patterns, for the media seek slider
19:16:28 <jongund> JS: We have 16 tests coming down the pipe in the next few weeks
19:17:00 <jongund> TOPIC: New Test Que
19:17:12 <jongund> https://aria-at.w3.org/test-queue
19:17:36 <jongund> MK: I am opening the test que, but I am signed out
19:18:30 <jongund> MK: I believe there about 16 test plans, but only 3 have been added to the test que
19:18:39 <jongund> MK: Can people see the app
19:18:46 <jongund> AV: I cannot see the page
19:19:09 <jongund> MK: I had that problem and I had to log out and in
19:19:26 <jongund> ST: AV is not a user, I will add now
19:19:37 <jongund> MK: JH are you in?
19:20:10 <jongund> ST: JH and AV are not users yet, can yo put you put your username in chat
19:20:21 <jongund> JS: JH is a tester
19:20:58 <jongund> MK: There is a table for each screen reader/browser combination
19:21:58 <jongund> MK: it is using the identifier "latest", originally going to use version, but discussions the past few weeks we realized we will collect version information automatically
19:22:26 <jongund> MK: The combinations will just use SR and browser name
19:23:09 <michael_fairchild> I have a question about app permissions in github.
19:23:48 <jongund> ST: There is a file in arai-at called support-at, so you could have an in progress test, but not in the app, is this still useful
19:24:11 <jongund> MK: We need a key in the file
19:24:28 <jongund> MK: JS and ST you need to coordinate on fixing this issue
19:24:49 <jongund> MK: For now we have some useful names, we can fix them going forward
19:25:09 <jongund> MK: We have a test plan column, and a column for tester for who is working on it
19:25:24 <jongund> MK: A column for report status
19:25:34 <jongund> MK: Actions is mostly administrative
19:28:24 <jongund> MK: For screen reader users there are some labeling issues, so you have to look at the heading on the page for the name of the test
19:28:47 <jongund> MK: I want to talk about the basic layout and getting into a test
19:28:54 <jongund> MK: Are people able to get in?
19:29:45 <jongund> MK: Who has seen the test plans?
19:29:54 <jongund> AV: I have not
19:29:59 <jongund> HR: I have
19:32:34 <jongund> JG: We may want to look at the use of "Success Criteria", concerned with confusion with WCAG
19:32:58 <jongund> MK: We need to have some time to review the labeling of the sections
19:33:51 <jongund> MK: Each test has it's own form for each part of the test
19:34:37 <jongund> MK: Each section allows recording of results
19:34:44 <jongund> AV: That makes sense
19:35:05 <jongund> MK: Our goal for the next several weeks, is to give feedback on the plans themselves
19:35:51 <jongund> MK: are the instructions correct, are the commands correct and are these the right behaviors
19:37:28 <jongund> MK: If we find problems there is a button on the page "Raise An Issue"
19:37:43 <jongund> MK: Have people used markdown?
19:37:57 <jongund> HR: I have used before
19:38:40 <jongund> MK: You can just use the simplest features of markdown
19:39:44 <jongund> MK: How are we grouping them so that JS can use them
19:40:02 <jongund> JS: What we discussed that each test is under an issue
19:40:28 <jongund> JS: We can go to issue and see an issue is related
19:40:36 <jongund> MK: I am worked about labels
19:40:46 <jongund> JS: Maybe a test feedback label for now
19:41:08 <jongund> JS: We can then discuss at the next meeting
19:41:18 <jongund> ST: There is a uniform label being applied now
19:41:30 <jongund> MK: you do have in the title the name of the test
19:42:02 <jongund> MK: Do you want people add to the title field, to make it more descriptive
19:42:24 <jongund> MK: If you get 3 people providing feedback o the same testm that would have the tile
19:43:16 <jongund> JS: We can see what comes in we can see what happens and make some adjustments
19:43:44 <jongund> MK: If you find problems with instructions, assertions or the commands
19:44:15 <jongund> MK: We are not looking for feedback on UI issues, just on the content of the tests themselves
19:44:45 <jongund> MK: Another problem that can be reported is a problem with a setup script
19:45:43 <jongund> MK: There is a button "Open Test Page" that always opens a new window, with the test code and may have a initial javascript to setup the test
19:46:28 <jongund> MK: Is there an example of a script
19:46:50 <jongund> JS: The test page will tell you what should happen, if thet does not happen it is an issue
19:47:17 <jongund> JS: They run when you open the test page
19:47:37 <jongund> MK: Do you where having a button is?
19:48:36 <jongund> ST: We are having an issue with including a button onload, we need to wrapper all the APG examples in a framework
19:49:13 <jongund> ST: We are currently testing arbitrary pages
19:49:35 <jongund> MK: If it is always a button with the same button with an ID
19:49:44 <jongund> JS: Can we put this on the agenda
19:49:55 <jongund> MK: JS seems to have similar ideas as mine
19:50:10 <jongund> MK: Could e have an asynch discussion on ...
19:50:24 <jongund> MK: JG we don't have the button yet
19:51:06 <jongund> JS: When you said there are 21 tests, those are the one that are applicable, there are more that apply to other SR/browsers
19:51:23 <jongund> MK: SOme of the tests for VO are different than for NVDA/Jaws
19:52:00 <jongund> MK: The type of feedback make sense
19:52:36 <s3ththompson> present+
19:53:39 <jongund> MK: We have 6 total combinations, we are missing other combinations
19:54:45 <jongund> MK: When we are looking at the tests plans these combinations should be sufficient
19:55:21 <jongund> MK: I think less in more in testing the current test cases
19:55:40 <jongund> ST: How do we know when we are done with this stage
19:56:16 <jongund> MK: If we testers get different results, it may identify confusion over the test plan,
19:57:05 <jongund> MK: So that will be one way to identify issues in the test plan, we want people to get the same results
19:57:21 <jongund> MK: I want to make sure we have a mix of ....
19:57:35 <jongund> MK: of experience on each one
19:58:35 <jongund> MK: We need to find what we mean as a group what consistency between testers looks like
19:58:43 <jongund> ST: That allows us to get started
19:59:06 <jongund> ST: Do we need a way to mark when a test is done
19:59:51 <jongund> MK: We need a way to move from draft to candidate plan, that can be sent to screen reader companies for their review and comment
20:00:11 <jongund> MK: Then after their review we can move to a recommended plan
20:00:33 <jongund> MK: Can we assign some people, people can assign themselves
20:00:52 <jongund> MK: We will use calls to talk about the results
20:01:40 <jongund> MK: You can start testing now, and you can raise issues
20:02:02 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:02:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-aria-at-minutes.html jongund
20:03:27 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
20:03:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/26-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King