14:02:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwe
14:02:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/24-pwe-irc
14:02:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:02:03 <Zakim> Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG
14:02:23 <Ralph> present: Tzviya, WendyR, WSeltzer, Jemma, Tobie, Anette, JudyB
14:02:34 <Ralph> regrets: Léonie
14:02:45 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2021Aug/0004.html
14:03:01 <tobie> Scribe: Tobie
14:03:10 <tobie> Present+
14:03:34 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #pwe
14:03:49 <Ralph> zakim, take up item 1
14:03:49 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Inclusion fund update -- taken up [from tzviya]
14:03:56 <wseltzer> q+
14:03:58 <tobie> tzviya: Reads trough agenda
14:04:04 <tzviya> ack wseltzer
14:04:28 <tobie> wseltzer: applications to the fund closed on August 15th
14:04:30 <Judy> Judy has joined #pwe
14:04:36 <tobie> ... with 7 applications
14:04:39 <Judy> present+
14:04:51 <tobie> ... passed on to team
14:04:52 <annette_g> present+
14:05:13 <wseltzer> s/team/short-list team/
14:05:25 <Ralph> topic: Update on Survey
14:05:30 <tobie> JaEun: team is on track to handle this.
14:05:42 <Jemma> Jemma has joined #pwe
14:05:42 <Ralph> scribe+
14:05:57 <Jemma> present+
14:06:05 <Ralph> Tobie: I am struggling to get StackOverflow to say under what license they are releasing their survey questions
14:06:17 <Ralph> ... I'm having trouble get an answer
14:06:17 <Jemma> rrsagent, make minutes
14:06:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/24-pwe-minutes.html Jemma
14:06:20 <wseltzer> q+ to offer legal-team assistance to talk licensing
14:06:27 <Ralph> ... the data is available, but not the questions
14:06:35 <Ralph> ... I'm hoping to use their questions as a starting point
14:07:06 <Ralph> ... I've talked with the person that might be running the survey; he quoted me a range of costs for running another survey
14:07:12 <Ralph> ... $2k - $5k
14:07:20 <tzviya> ack wseltzer
14:07:20 <Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to offer legal-team assistance to talk licensing
14:07:26 <Ralph> ... he provided a set of requirements to get a more firm quote
14:07:54 <Ralph> Wendy: ^^
14:08:01 <Ralph> Tobie: thanks for the offer
14:08:11 <wseltzer> s/talk/talk about/
14:08:30 <Ralph> Tzviya: Léonie may have talked with someone at Nomensa and might have a super-simple set of questions
14:09:00 <Ralph> Tobie: I was thinking simple too, and looking for good simple language; that's what I was hoping to get as a starting point
14:09:11 <Ralph> Tzvyia: Nomensa has worked on simple language as well
14:09:19 <Jemma> agenda?
14:09:24 <Ralph> Tobie: thanks; I'll reach out to Léonie and cc you
14:09:28 <Ralph> zakim, next item
14:09:28 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Meeting at TPAC -- taken up [from tzviya]
14:09:59 <tobie> tzviya: TPAC will be remote this year.
14:10:16 <tobie> ... Joint meetings on week of October 25th.
14:10:27 <tobie> ... Do we want to have an extended meeting?
14:10:38 <tobie> ... Do we want to meet with other groups?
14:10:48 <tobie> ... The Cognitive TF has asked to meet with us.
14:10:55 <Judy> q+ to mention another tpac thought
14:11:17 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:11:17 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to mention another tpac thought
14:11:20 <tobie> ... In the past, the ID CG had talking sessions at TPAC more than worm sessions.
14:11:37 <tobie> s/worm/work/
14:12:21 <tobie> Judy: the cognitive lang and learning TF is part of WAI. Recently finished a document on best practices connected to learning disabilities.
14:12:32 <tobie> ... wanting to take on new tasks.
14:12:50 <tobie> ... Two questions they are wondering about from process standpoint:
14:13:00 <tobie> ... 1. anonymized feedback
14:13:45 <tobie> ... due to changing mental health state.
14:14:19 <tobie> ... 2. anonymized feedback because the person might have a guardian or be in a similar relationship
14:14:44 <tobie> tzviya: we would want to understand the scenario better
14:15:44 <Judy> s/due to/for instance possibly due to/
14:16:03 <tobie> tzviya: suggests we meet on Oct 26th usual time slot to better understand the needs.
14:16:57 <tobie> Judy: Last year we had training sessions at TPAC.
14:17:03 <tobie> ... these were well received.
14:17:08 <tobie> ... We should do them again.
14:17:27 <tobie> ... I'm planning to go ahead with this next year again unless folks object.
14:18:17 <tobie> tzviya: I'm wondering whether we might have the same people as last year and so might want to provide deeper content.
14:18:47 <tobie> Jemma: this is a good "PR" opportunity for the group.
14:19:18 <tobie> tzviya: what about an un-minuted discussion session?
14:19:47 <tobie> tzviya: How do we make this session welcoming to people? Do we want to do it at TPAC?
14:20:27 <tobie> s/JaEun/Jemma/
14:20:59 <Judy> s/anoymized feedback because the person might/also, some individuals with some disabilities might/
14:21:02 <Judy> q+
14:21:10 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:22:23 <tobie> Judy: Your question reminds me that it was mentioned a while ago that it was  sometimes difficult to have open conversations in this space because of the presence of W3C staff members.
14:23:11 <tobie> tzviya: yes this was what I had in mind.
14:23:28 <Judy> s/members/members including managers/
14:23:32 <tobie> tzviya: this wasn't only about staff, but also AB, TAG members, etc.
14:24:07 <tzviya> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDsWB4oIBRZLY9KdeIH_WbePUAp0x2z1BSbjna_9UHU/edit?usp=sharing__;!!N11eV2iwtfs!7eYlwosFSxNe2vnN3HxisWXbXIuSYOBA_bhE_e3H56U7Y5tXE4OvIxngE_EbFA$
14:24:24 <tobie> tzviya: Will follow-up on trying to organize such space spaces.
14:24:32 <tobie> Zakim, next item
14:24:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Joint meeting with the Cognitive Task Force (TF) -- taken up [from tzviya]
14:25:06 <wseltzer> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:25:06 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Working through ombuds scenarios -- taken up [from tzviya]
14:25:13 <Ralph> zakim, close item 3
14:25:13 <Zakim> agendum 3, Joint meeting with the Cognitive Task Force (TF), closed
14:25:14 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:25:14 <Zakim> 4. Working through ombuds scenarios [from tzviya]
14:25:26 <Jemma> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WDsWB4oIBRZLY9KdeIH_WbePUAp0x2z1BSbjna_9UHU/edit#
14:26:32 <tobie> tzviya: Goal is to look at the different scenarios in the linked doc.
14:28:11 <tobie> tzviya: suggests scenarios should be less vague, more specific.
14:29:06 <tobie> Jemma: asking clarification as to frequency of interviews
14:29:36 <tobie> tzviya: the interviews are for recruiting Ombuds people.
14:29:40 <Judy> q+
14:29:45 <annette_g> q+
14:29:52 <Judy> q- later
14:29:53 <tobie> tzviya: suggests working on the scenarios in real time
14:30:14 <tobie> Jemma: what would be the motivation and incentive for the candidate to apply for this position?
14:30:39 <tzviya> ack annette_g
14:30:57 <tobie> tzviya: this is a volunteer position. We know it's going to be difficult to find people for this position.
14:31:26 <tobie> annette_g: agree that these are too vague, they also give away a little more than they should
14:31:29 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:31:56 <lutgendorff> lutgendorff has joined #pwe
14:32:07 <lutgendorff> q+
14:32:13 <tobie> annette_g: we should have less labelling
14:32:28 <tobie> Judy: +1 to annette_g's point
14:32:55 <tobie> ... I can find so many examples of these scenarios on a daily basis
14:33:04 <tzviya> ack lutgendorff
14:33:13 <tobie> ... is the micro-agression what we really want to focus on for such interviews?
14:33:38 <tobie> Liz: agrees, we need to craft scenarios
14:33:58 <tobie> ... so candidates can understand the scenarios and then respond to it.
14:34:01 <tzviya> q+ to talk about prompts
14:34:23 <Jemma> I think asking about micro-agression can be a measurement for the sensitivity of the issues.
14:35:19 <Jemma> q+ to ask how many "regions" we will cover
14:35:23 <tobie> ... create scenarios around common things people experience (for example over a period of time)
14:37:11 <Judy> q+
14:37:34 <tzviya> ack me
14:37:34 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about prompts
14:37:36 <tzviya> ack Jemma
14:37:36 <Zakim> Jemma, you wanted to ask how many "regions" we will cover
14:38:20 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/blob/main/DraftOmbudsJobDescription.md
14:38:26 <tobie> tzviya: explains "choose your adventure" example, reminds group that we collected real scenario from the pwe training we had
14:38:27 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:39:12 <tobie> Judy: Finds conversation interesting and useful.
14:40:19 <tobie> ... Especially the threshold effect.
14:40:58 <tobie> q+
14:40:58 <lutgendorff> Agree, reflecting on CPC is really important
14:41:18 <tzviya> ack tobie
14:41:24 <tzviya> s/CPC/CEPC
14:41:46 <Ralph> Tobie: some of the scenarios are violent or urgent that need a very different response
14:41:53 <Ralph> ... folks need to be ready to address these
14:42:11 <Ralph> Tzvyia: +1; we need scenarios that address emergency situation
14:42:46 <tobie> s/pwe/CEPC
14:43:23 <tobie> tzviya: Looking at the micro-agression scenario, can we focus on that?
14:43:34 <wseltzer> q+
14:43:44 <tobie> tzviya: most of us have been in such a situation
14:44:44 <tobie> tzviya: can someone help with a more violent scenario and put at the bottom of the doc? (as this can be triggering we don't need to discuss it here).
14:45:14 <Jemma> q+ to ask how to deal with" seniority", which is common culture in Asian countries
14:46:49 <tzviya> ack wseltzer
14:46:56 <tobie> tzviya: other kinds of scenario: very rapid (negative) response to questions/issues on GitHub which burdens the person having filed the issue to prove their point.
14:47:19 <tobie> ... "sea-lioning"
14:47:49 <wseltzer> ack next
14:47:50 <tzviya> ack je
14:47:51 <Zakim> Jemma, you wanted to ask how to deal with" seniority", which is common culture in Asian countries
14:48:03 <tobie> wseltzer: suggest rejecting an opinionated edit suggestion to the doc
14:48:35 <Judy> q+
14:49:05 <tobie> Jemma: how do we deal with cultural differences in for example micro-agression scenarios.
14:49:18 <tzviya> ack ju
14:49:34 <tobie> tzviya: can you help? We'd very much want a broader cultural perspective.
14:51:37 <tobie> Judy: There are sometimes scenarios where going up against some established cultural norms can cause issues/punishment after the fact. How can we handle this?
14:51:50 <tobie> Jemma: this clearly exists.
14:51:50 <annette_g> q+
14:52:44 <tzviya> ack annette_g
14:52:54 <tobie> tzviya: writing that up would be super useful. Not sure that mitigation strategies, if they exist, belong in that doc.
14:53:53 <tobie> annette_g: should we have region-specific scenarios?
14:55:18 <tobie> tzviya: region is just one element that someone could chose to decide which Ombuds person to reach out to.
14:55:49 <tobie> tzviya: we need a more robust sets of scenarios.
14:56:16 <tobie> tzviya: any other business for today?
14:57:08 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/pwe/calendar PWE CG Group Calendar
14:57:12 <tobie> tzviya: next meeting is on the 14th of September
14:57:36 <tobie> Judy: that's Geek Week, so W3C staff won't be present.
14:57:42 <tobie> tzviya: ajourning
14:57:48 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
14:57:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, WendyR, WSeltzer, Jemma, Tobie, Anette, JudyB, Judy, annette_g
14:57:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
14:57:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/24-pwe-minutes.html Zakim
14:57:54 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:57:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwe
15:02:39 <Jemma> I added culture specific microagression scenario.