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14:58:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
14:58:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
14:58:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9718517d-0e08-4377-bb7c-07332948233b/20210818T110000
14:59:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
14:59:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:01:46 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:02:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:02:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:03:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Topic: Expand note about preventing compatibility mouse events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/403
15:03:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: see additional comment here after our call two weeks ago https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/403#issuecomment-892968317
15:05:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: i like that it's a note, because it's normative in the DOM spec, not in our spec
15:05:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: ah yes, PE isn't the one making it "normative". i can rationalise that
15:05:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: agree
15:06:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: happy to merge then?
15:06:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: note that while i kept the DOM part non-normative, i made the preceding two paragraphs normative - see https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/403/files
15:08:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Not hearing any objections. Merging.
15:08:07 <mustaq> present+ mustaq
15:08:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Topic: Add note about rounding coordinates for click, auxclick, contextmenu https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/404
15:08:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: had this comment in agenda: "the fact that normatively PE don't say that coordinates should be double (currently only makes a non-normative reference to the CSSOM extension) is leading to a lot of ifs and buts. wonder if instead PE should/can just say that they must be double?"
15:13:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: issue is: do we want to redefine coords ourselves? can we? we were fine handwaving before in a non-normative note, but now we're paying the price. does Firefox use double?
15:13:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: no
15:13:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: from my testing, only Chrome uses double for PEs
15:18:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: is this something that PE wants to even tackle/explain? in essence it's a problem, but only because Chrome decided to apply CSSOM's double idea for coordinates, but spec doesn't mandate this
15:19:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on how WebIDL spec defines how conversions should happen?]
15:19:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ["rounding towards zero"]
15:20:17 <smaug> https://heycam.github.io/webidl/#es-long
15:21:39 <smaug> https://heycam.github.io/webidl/#abstract-opdef-integerpart
15:22:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: ah it's flooring the absolute, which is why it leans towards zero
15:23:46 <mustaq> Chrome uses std::floor, for which -2.7 becomes -3
15:24:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: sticking to WebIDL makes sense
15:25:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: are we concerned that this is a W3C Editor's Draft?
15:25:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I think it's moving soon / will be living standard
15:27:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/404/files
15:27:41 <flackr> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1166853
15:31:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: concerned that we say "there are additional normative requirements" in the initial non-normative note. Then again, the section it points TO is normative.
15:32:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: so for this PR, we can just change the "MUST round the various coordinate properties" to "MUST convert to long"
15:33:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: that opens up too many web compat issues. should really say how, e.g. "round down"
15:33:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> wonder if IDL spec, or ECMAScript, have something official that defines this conversion
15:34:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: couldn't we call this out in the compatibility mapping for mouse events
15:34:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> have a section in there to specify if you have different precision, use floor
15:35:06 <flackr> https://jsbin.com/sagenev/edit?html,js,output
15:35:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> we have same behaviour of rounding for mouse compat events
15:40:23 <smaug> https://tc39.es/ecma262/#eqn-floor
15:42:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so i'd suggest i have a stab at changing that sentence with the "round" to actually say browsers should floor, link to ECMAScript, then we can see what that looks like for next meeting (or comment earlier).
15:42:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: and then after that we can discuss how we want to say the same thing for compat mouse events
15:43:04 <mustaq> Sounds good to me.
15:43:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to tweak PR #404 to change "round" to reference to floor/ECMAScript
15:45:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Notes with normative (SHOULD/MUST) statements https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/405
15:48:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: not to do lengthy discussion now, but if you could all please have a look and ponder. are there notes that should actually be normative? and in ones that should remain notes, should we change/soften the language to not use MUST/SHOULD?
15:49:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: group to review issue #405 and add comments/thoughts
15:49:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: thank you all, we'll adjurn for today. See you all in 2 weeks' time.
15:49:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:50:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, create minutes
15:50:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/18-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:50:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:50:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:50:29 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/18-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:50:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to tweak PR #404 to change "round" to reference to floor/ECMAScript [1]
15:50:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/18-pointerevents-irc#T15-43-10
15:50:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: group to review issue #405 and add comments/thoughts [2]
15:50:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/18-pointerevents-irc#T15-49-15