15:59:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #editing
15:59:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/08/13-editing-irc
16:00:07 <Travis> present+ Travis
16:00:13 <whsieh> present+
16:00:15 <BoCupp> present+ Bo
16:00:19 <comandeer> present+
16:00:29 <whsieh> is the link https://meet.google.com/wdp-xkma-taf?
16:00:39 <Travis> no...
16:00:40 <Travis> https://meet.google.com/pdx-dnmm-cen
16:01:15 <Travis> Anyone want to scribe today?
16:01:59 <Travis> agenda+ travis introductions
16:02:34 <johanneswilm> Travis introduces himself. He is to replace Grisha for the time being.
16:02:49 <BoCupp> agenda+ Virtual Keyboad API ED to WD? (https://w3c.github.io/editing/docs/virtualkeyboard/index.html)
16:03:57 <Travis> agenda?
16:04:37 <Travis> agenda- 1
16:04:45 <Travis> agenda
16:04:48 <Travis> agenda?
16:05:02 <Travis> agenda+ review Agenda+ items on github
16:05:42 <Travis> agenda+ keyboard api participation from MS
16:05:51 <snianu> snianu has joined #editing
16:05:52 <GameMaker> GameMaker has joined #editing
16:06:45 <Travis> drop agenda 4
16:06:57 <Travis> agenda+ clipboard-api participation from MS
16:07:00 <Travis> agenda?
16:07:24 <Travis> agenda+ What to include from input-events L2?
16:07:54 <Travis> Any other agenda items from folks here in IRC?
16:07:56 <johanneswilm> Bo: will get a PR ready for what part sof Input Events level 2 have to be marked optional
16:08:09 <GameMaker> present+
16:08:13 <snianu> present+
16:08:19 <johanneswilm> present+
16:08:56 <johanneswilm> Wenson: we are on board with svg as safe clipboard mimetype
16:08:56 <Travis> agenda+ SVG clipboard topic
16:08:57 <alex_> alex_ has joined #editing
16:09:09 <johanneswilm> ... but we might want some sanitization that we can discuss here
16:09:31 <Travis> take up agenda 2
16:09:45 <Travis> take up agendum 2
16:10:04 <johanneswilm> Bo: virtual keyboard API - we have worked on it a while. have internal and external users. Is the group willing to move it to be a WD?
16:10:58 <Travis> Note: not hearing opposition here on the call.
16:11:20 <Travis> ACTION: BoCupp to send mail asking the same.
16:12:16 <Travis> a?
16:12:19 <Travis> agenda?
16:12:25 <Travis> agenda- 2
16:12:37 <Travis> take up agenda 5
16:12:44 <Travis> take up agenda 3
16:13:04 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/editing/labels/Agenda%2B
16:13:12 <Travis> Will be looking over these from top to bottom.
16:13:26 <Travis> First issue: https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/327
16:14:01 <Travis> Anyone have a preferred day/time to meet at [virtual] TPAC?
16:14:19 <Travis> Dates are 25 - 29 Oct.
16:15:37 <Travis> Suggest that we keep same relative time and day?
16:15:49 <Travis> Any other day we might also like to meet (for schedule flexibility)?
16:16:32 <Travis> johanneswilm: think asking for 2-3 hours might be good?
16:17:37 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/265
16:18:12 <Travis> johanneswilm: first we need an update from Bo/Grisha...
16:18:24 <Travis> .. they worked on a very long PR. Can we get this merged?
16:18:38 <Travis> .. there was a question in the issue asking about moving into the HTML spec.
16:18:56 <Travis> .. then Doemenic had a discussion about using the terminology of execCommand.
16:19:05 <Travis> .. I personally don't think we need to do it.
16:19:20 <Travis> .. if HTML thinks it's central and should use that naming scheme..
16:19:31 <Travis> .. would be good to have common understanding of execCommand.
16:20:25 <johanneswilm> Bo: it stalled because noone is going to jump on delivering this
16:20:26 <Travis> BoCupp: to complete the PR... I think it stalled because may not be likely that anyone is going to be working on this?
16:21:03 <johanneswilm> it became deprioritized
16:21:22 <johanneswilm> I would rather wok on those things we want to ship
16:21:32 <johanneswilm> like virtualkeyboard api
16:22:14 <johanneswilm> wenson: we will nor prioritize
16:22:39 <Travis> johanneswilm: this started as a request on the JS side... editors unhappy showing actions that won't be taken.
16:23:17 <Travis> .. whenever someone wants to know the current state, folks have to read through the spec + PR. Can we merge as an intermediate step.
16:23:38 <Travis> .. would it be easier to merge and then still not worry about putting further time into it.
16:24:19 <Travis> I think that's a sensible request.
16:24:31 <Travis> johanneswilm: there may be a few issues...
16:24:58 <Travis> BoCupp: looks like there's a reduction in scope... dom token list was dropped.
16:25:32 <Travis> johanneswilm: it was asked to include, but not done. But.. not a problem. We can file an issue to do it.
16:26:33 <Travis> ACTION: johanneswilm to file issues that remain from this PR, and then merge the commit as is.
16:26:47 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/260
16:27:43 <Travis> johanneswilm: question to whsieh? CAn we move undo manager api?
16:27:58 <Travis> whsieh: Will talk to tess.
16:28:03 <Travis> is it in scope of our charter?
16:28:22 <Travis> johanneswilm: I think so, but whereever it ends up, we probably shouldn't link to a person account.
16:28:59 <Travis> wondering if webkit/explainers would work?
16:29:20 <Travis> BoCupp: is undo manager a concept you'd like to invest to move forward?
16:29:29 <Travis> whsieh: momentum has stopped, but we still see value in it.
16:29:43 <Travis> .. good use cases :) I'd say "far on the horizon"
16:31:11 <Travis> johanneswilm: there are buttons for undo/redo, and authors want to disable them. authors are trying to figure out how to integrate their own undo/redo.
16:31:26 <Travis> .. so how do we do this? Add events? Have an Undo Manager? What's the larger direction?
16:32:23 <Travis> whsieh: I don't think having undo events is mutually exclusive to undo manager.
16:33:46 <Travis> ACTION: whsieh to move undomanager to webkit/explainers, then update the issue so we can get a better link.
16:34:24 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/editing/pull/244
16:35:02 <Travis> johanneswilm: people are still interested in fixing/changing execcommand.
16:35:13 <Travis> .. there's a new command "useCSS"
16:35:22 <Travis> .. implemented in Safari 10 years ago.
16:35:29 <Travis> .. not present in all the browsers.
16:35:35 <Travis> .. so technically shouldn't be deprecated.
16:36:28 <Travis> .. spec should say "we recommend "styleCSS" but "useCSS" shouldn't be marked as deprecated.
16:37:31 <Travis> any objections to undeprecating?
16:37:48 <johanneswilm> bo: don't feel know enough to comment
16:37:57 <Travis> BoCupp: don't know enough to comment--but seems reasonable if everyone has implemented it.
16:38:10 <Travis> johanneswilm: there is a full-replacement for it "styleCSS".
16:39:12 <Travis> not hearing objections to this undeprecation
16:41:46 <Travis> ACTION: Ask @saschanaz to files bugs on implementations that may be firing deprecation warnings, and merge the PR.
16:43:01 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/input-events/labels/Agenda
16:43:18 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/input-events/pull/118
16:43:45 <Travis> johanneswilm: We need to figure out if we can merge these specs.
16:46:05 <Travis> johanneswilm: we could just auto-publish both and then think about merging later?
16:46:16 <Travis> johanneswilm: we can defer this for another month.
16:46:54 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/input-events/issues/117
16:47:42 <Travis> johanneswilm: We decided that we don't need a new input type, but we should agree on which type to use.
16:47:55 <Travis> .. then we got a question back: should there be a paste event?
16:48:10 <Travis> Does anyone implement this with a paste event?
16:48:27 <Travis> johanneswilm: new spec, implementers may do this if we spec it.
16:48:34 <Travis> whsieh: similar to emojis.
16:48:46 <Travis> .. we treat it like a paste, and our implementation does fire 'paste'
16:48:53 <Travis> .. it's for compatibility.
16:49:25 <Travis> johanneswilm: any argument against having a paste event?
16:50:31 <Travis> BoCupp: is there a spec change here?
16:50:37 <Travis> .. where would this be documented?
16:50:54 <Travis> .. or is this just advice from the WG on how to maximize compatibility?
16:51:05 <Travis> johanneswilm: we could be a non-normative note on how to handle paste.
16:51:28 <Travis> .. in the note we could explain to fire it... you'd write the event order.
16:51:41 <Travis> .. e.g., when does input event fire in relation to the paste event?
16:51:58 <Travis> The firing of 'paste' is written somewhere, right?
16:52:06 <Travis> BoCupp: I think it would be a good addition.
16:52:12 <Travis> .. also fine with a note.
16:52:20 <Travis> agenda?
16:52:28 <Travis> agenda- 3
16:53:31 <Travis> ACTION: include a note in the spec (non-normative) about firing paste event as well in this scenario.
16:54:37 <Travis> https://github.com/w3c/input-events/issues/115
16:54:43 <Travis> johanneswilm: let's just remove the agenda label.
16:55:16 <Travis> agenda?
16:55:37 <Travis> take up agenda 5
16:55:46 <Travis> BoCupp: anupam is working on pickling API.
16:56:01 <Travis> .. questions on security aspects, sanitization.
16:56:18 <Travis> .. our plan is to make updates to clipboard-api spec (before shipping anything)
16:56:22 <Travis> .. we're working on it.
16:56:25 <Travis> .. :)
16:56:39 <Travis> johanneswilm: can we update the editor (it's grisha)
16:57:06 <Travis> BoCupp: who are we asking? I nominate Anupam!
16:58:12 <Travis> ACTION: we'll take the nomination for Anupam back and try to make the switch.
16:58:18 <Travis> agenda?
16:58:38 <Travis> agenda- 5
16:58:39 <Travis> agenda- 6
16:58:46 <Travis> take up agenda 7
16:59:34 <Travis> whsieh: was a blog post recently about adding image/SVG+XML... to the web-safe list.
16:59:50 <Travis> .. one of the challenges is dealing with sanitization.
17:00:09 <Travis> .. SVG may use XML parser (vs. HTML parser)
17:00:21 <Travis> .. sanitization may involve more than adding this to the list of types.
17:00:59 <Travis> .. if we're not careful could lead to XSS..?
17:01:11 <Travis> johanneswilm: does the sanitization need to be sanitized?
17:01:32 <johanneswilm> * standardized
17:01:54 <Travis> whsieh: in blog post (link) there was a note about not wanting to standardize the sanitization algo.
17:02:07 <whsieh> link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rx7gi01avpRRNYKSpp3U4WQdjery0H0IkX2XxDtfZ8I/edit
17:03:01 <Travis> BoCupp: what is the outcome of "adding to web-safe list" does it join a list of things UAs must support?
17:04:07 <Travis> .. we had feedback from Moz in anotehr issue. Putting a mime-type on a list isn't sufficient...
17:04:21 <Travis> .. need to know the format when "html is on the clipboard"
17:04:33 <Travis> .. there are some interop issues.
17:04:45 <Travis> .. Moz feedback was to add that level of detail (to get interop)
17:05:09 <Travis> .. there are variations by platform, yet we'd like a platform neutral.
17:05:17 <Travis> .. I'm very supportive of providing the details.
17:05:37 <Travis> .. a little concerned about adding another one with no good docs.
17:05:41 <Travis> whsieh: good poitn.
17:06:17 <Travis> BoCupp: proposal: maybe have whsieh become a co-editor of clipboard-api to help iron out some of the details?
17:06:28 <Travis> .. (also helps improve clipboard-api spec).
17:07:36 <Travis> RRSAgent: please make the minutes
17:07:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/13-editing-minutes.html Travis
17:07:45 <Travis> agenda?
17:07:48 <Travis> agenda- 7
17:08:00 <Travis> RRSAgent: make minutes public
17:08:00 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Travis.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:08:45 <Travis> RRSAgent, make logs world-visible