15:03:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
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15:04:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:04:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:04:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2021JulSep/0066.html
15:04:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: patrick_h_lauke
15:05:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:05:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:05:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:05:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
15:05:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ patrick_h_lauke
15:05:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Topic: Expand note about preventing compatibility mouse events  https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/403
15:08:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: setting scene, this is out of me being surprised by passive events not being able to prevent mouse compat. agree that it's kind of repeating things if you know DOM events, but maybe we can strike balance of just mentioning it for noobs like me who are not as familiar
15:09:08 <smaug> I guess you can't hear me
15:09:17 <smaug> let me rejoin
15:10:49 <plh> /me would like to come back to https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/384 if time allows
15:11:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/403.html#compatibility-mapping-with-mouse-events
15:13:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i'll add extra bit to the sentence to make it clear those two links point to [DOM] spec, and then we happy to merge?
15:13:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [group agrees]
15:13:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: tweak the sentence to add [DOM], then merge
15:15:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Topic: * Should "click", "dblclick" and "contextmenu" events be PointerEvents?  https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/100
15:16:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PAtrick: (explains issue history) made a first draft https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/404
15:19:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: we don't have anything normative in PE at the moment about CSSOM
15:19:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we do... https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#pointerevent-interface ... ah no you're right, it's in a note, so non-normative
15:19:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: we do need something normative...
15:20:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: do you mean we normatively need to define the exception, or the fact that regular PE have fractional coordinates?
15:21:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: there's no compat problem whether browsers use fractional or not for regular PEs, it's only in this case with the click/auxclick/contextmenu that we do need to normatively make a statement for webcompat reasons
15:22:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: if a UA doesn't use CSSOM fractional coords for regular pointer events (as it's not normative currently), then they would not hit the problem for click etc either, or rather they'd automatically satisfy this
15:23:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: [paraphrasing] but we do need to specify normatively for click etc for web compat
15:23:26 <mustaq> Olli's suggestion sounds good to me.
15:24:21 <flackr> https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#pointerevent-interface
15:28:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/404/files
15:29:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on how to make the requirement normative]
15:30:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: could remove the first para in that note, keep the second para but remove the note markup around it, so that second para remains there and is normative
15:31:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: suggest expanding the original note at end of 4.1 to say ... "except for click/auxclick/contextmenu and then link to this section"
15:35:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: SHOULD or MUST? this may change in future, developers may even moan in future about "to get fractional, i have to listen to pointerup rather than click"?
15:35:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Robert: i think SHOULD, but can live with MUST
15:36:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I think it should be MUST
15:36:21 <mustaq> I am on the fence!
15:36:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: ok, we lean towards MUST then, can change in future if UIEVENTS change (the CSSOM "patch" gets applied)
15:37:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: mustaq can you live with MUST
15:37:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: yes
15:38:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: and fundamentally it's for UIEVENTS to grapple with this, and once they do, we can change our spec
15:40:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: other point: should mouse compat mention this too? (thinks about this some more) ah no because if a UA decides to fire these, they are intrinsically MouseEvents, so no "conversion" or change needed
15:40:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: one structural thin I noticed: when referencing {{PointerEvent}} in the markup, respec links to https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#dom-pointerevent
15:41:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PAtrick: wondering if instead it should point to interface definition https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#pointerevent-interface
15:43:47 <mustaq> {{}} definition in Bikeshed here: https://tabatkins.github.io/bikeshed/#autolink-shortcuts
15:44:31 <mustaq> Better link: https://tabatkins.github.io/bikeshed/#autolinking
15:44:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> looking at the link to MouseEvent for instance in the note at end of 4.1, it goes to https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#mouseevent
15:46:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion about pros/cons]
15:46:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I might make the change in a separate self-contained PR, so we can back it out if it does cause issues/confusion
15:47:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: change the PR to make second paragraph normative, expand original note at end of 4.1
15:49:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: looking at time, probably not worth starting new topic. would say we end it early now, and catch up again in 2 weeks' time. thanks all
15:49:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, create minutes
15:49:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:49:28 <smaug> FWIW, DOM spec was updated 2 days ago so I'll try to write a PR to fix https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/223 using the new hook in that spec.
15:49:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:49:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> thanks smaug
15:50:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:50:12 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:50:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: tweak the sentence to add [DOM], then merge [1]
15:50:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-pointerevents-irc#T15-13-50
15:50:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: change the PR to make second paragraph normative, expand original note at end of 4.1 [2]
15:50:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2021/08/04-pointerevents-irc#T15-47-26