IRC log of wpwg-spc on 2021-07-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wpwg-spc
15:58:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/26-wpwg-spc-irc
15:58:33 [Ian]
Meeting: SPC Task Force
15:58:39 [Ian]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2021Jul/0006.html
15:58:43 [Ian]
Chair: Ian
15:58:45 [Ian]
Scribe: Ian
15:59:05 [Ian]
present+
15:59:10 [Ian]
present+ Rouslan_Solomakhin
15:59:15 [Ian]
present+ Bastien_Latge
15:59:43 [Ian]
present+ Clinton_Allen
16:00:23 [Anne]
Anne has joined #wpwg-spc
16:00:54 [Ian]
present+ Anne_Pouillard
16:01:04 [Ian]
regrets+ Stephen_McGruer
16:01:29 [Ian]
present+ Susan_Pandy
16:02:11 [Ian]
present+ Gerhard_Oosthuizen
16:02:24 [Ian]
present+ Jonathan_Grossar
16:02:30 [Ian]
present+ Sameer_Tare
16:02:46 [AdrianHB]
present+ AdrianHB
16:03:01 [Ian]
present+ Christian_Aabye
16:03:22 [Ian]
-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2021Jul/0006.html Agenda
16:03:24 [rouslan]
rouslan has joined #wpwg-spc
16:03:28 [rouslan]
present+
16:03:30 [Gerhard]
Gerhard has joined #wpwg-spc
16:03:30 [Ian]
Topic: Preparing for FPWD for SPC API
16:03:37 [Christian]
Christian has joined #wpwg-spc
16:03:49 [Ian]
-> https://w3c.github.io/secure-payment-confirmation/ SPC API
16:04:06 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/wiki/Plan-2021
16:05:28 [Ian]
present+ Doug_Fisher
16:06:34 [rouslan]
q+ to ask whether the major point of FPWD is the patent exclusion or something else?
16:06:47 [Ian]
Ian: Can we start CfC on 5 August?
16:06:49 [Ian]
ack rouslan
16:06:49 [Zakim]
rouslan, you wanted to ask whether the major point of FPWD is the patent exclusion or something else?
16:08:18 [werner]
werner has joined #wpwg-spc
16:08:50 [Ian]
present+ Werner_Bruinings
16:08:59 [Ian]
present+ Praveena_Subrahmany
16:10:32 [Ian]
Ian: I think the main reason to go to FPWD is to say "The wg plans to make this a rec (in the future)." Important industry statement.
16:10:34 [Ian]
q?
16:10:53 [AdrianHB]
q+ to ask about timing
16:11:10 [Ian]
Ian: Does FPWD hinder us from making changes?
16:11:12 [Ian]
Rouslan: No
16:11:23 [Ian]
...we like the living specification model (e.g., HTML4)
16:11:26 [Ian]
s/HTML4/HTML5
16:11:43 [Ian]
q+ to talk about living standard
16:11:44 [Ian]
ack AdrianHB
16:11:44 [Zakim]
AdrianHB, you wanted to ask about timing
16:12:14 [Ian]
AdrianHB: My fear is that if stuff ships and people are implementing against it (irrespective of specs), browsers will be reluctant to change.
16:12:39 [Ian]
...if people are implementing against what you put out in first iteration, it's very hard to make breaking changes
16:13:11 [Ian]
...so my question -- is there a deadline for suggested changes? How soon would you like people to suggest changes to the spec so that it can be incorporated into chrome?
16:13:25 [Ian]
rouslan: Pull request this week or next week might make it into the first version we ship
16:13:31 [Ian]
...the timeline is quite tight at this point
16:13:49 [Ian]
...I do understand the concern about shipping things and those features being "burnt into the net"
16:14:02 [Ian]
...that's the point of the origin process (we've been in trial for nearly a year on and off)
16:14:32 [Ian]
...we are making spec changes and API changes based on both partner feedback and webAuthn team within Google
16:14:39 [Ian]
...so we've been moving the API closer to WebAuthn
16:14:57 [Ian]
...I don't think we should be too concerned about the inability to remove things from the Web...we have processes for deprecation
16:15:23 [Ian]
...relies on good feature detection and availability of new improved approach
16:15:39 [Ian]
...when users of old API drop below .002% of all page loads (approximately) we can remove the API from the Web
16:16:00 [Bastien]
Bastien has joined #wpwg-spc
16:16:03 [Ian]
...I envision that SPC will be a good signal to the ecosystem to start using it...and we'll get more feedback from those users
16:16:10 [AdrianHB]
q+ to ask about feature detection for SPC
16:16:14 [Ian]
..and we'll add new features and try to prevent old features from breaking
16:16:39 [Ian]
..is chrome 93 we are switching lots of things that are breaking changes, which is ok in origin trial
16:17:00 [Ian]
ack AdrianHB
16:17:00 [Zakim]
AdrianHB, you wanted to ask about feature detection for SPC
16:17:14 [AdrianHB]
https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/81
16:17:17 [Ian]
AdrianHB: The one thing it would be great to fix before shipping is feature detection
16:17:23 [Ian]
...it's not great right now
16:17:39 [Ian]
...I'm happy to help with this if that's a priority
16:17:49 [Ian]
rouslan: +1
16:20:44 [rouslan]
q+ to say that updated feature detection is planned for after first ship date
16:20:51 [Ian]
ack me
16:20:51 [Zakim]
Ian, you wanted to talk about living standard
16:20:55 [Ian]
ack rouslan
16:20:55 [Zakim]
rouslan, you wanted to say that updated feature detection is planned for after first ship date
16:21:30 [Ian]
rouslan: Regarding feature detection; I think our plan is to ship without stronger feature detection and to improve it in subsequent implementation
16:22:47 [Ian]
Topic: SPC issues
16:22:52 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues
16:23:29 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/84
16:24:42 [Ian]
Ian: Any more views on 84?:
16:24:43 [rouslan]
q+ to talk about the enrollment UI
16:24:46 [Ian]
ack rous
16:24:46 [Zakim]
rouslan, you wanted to talk about the enrollment UI
16:25:00 [Ian]
rouslan: I think a majority of the Google team is leaning to "no special enrollment UI"
16:25:08 [Ian]
...to align more with WebAuthn
16:25:31 [Ian]
...the reasons for enrollment UI were 2 originally: (1) icon/display information was required at enrollment, but that's no longer necessary
16:25:53 [Ian]
(2) privacy team had originally suggested that in order to do enrollment in a cross-origin iframe needed special UI
16:26:25 [Ian]
...however, more internal discussions suggest that the enrollment UI is probably not required for privacy
16:27:26 [Ian]
Ian: Do you think 3p enrollment will be more generally acceptable to WebAuthn?
16:27:31 [Ian]
rouslan: Don't know yet
16:29:24 [Ian]
https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/issues/92\
16:29:28 [Ian]
Topic: Next call
16:29:33 [Ian]
2 July
16:29:41 [Ian]
RRSAGENT, make minutes
16:29:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/26-wpwg-spc-minutes.html Ian
16:29:55 [Ian]
RRSAGENT, set logs public
16:30:22 [Ian]
rrsagent, bye
16:30:22 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items