13:38:00 RRSAgent has joined #silver 13:38:00 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/23-silver-irc 13:38:03 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:38:03 Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group 13:38:10 Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group 13:38:10 present: 13:38:10 chair: Shawn, jeanne 13:38:10 present+ 13:38:10 zakim, clear agenda 13:38:10 rrsagent, make minutes 13:38:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/23-silver-minutes.html jeanne 13:38:10 agenda cleared 13:38:11 q? 13:38:27 agenda+ EO WG Survey 13:38:27 agenda+ TPAC APA Joint Meetings 13:38:27 agenda+ Getting a group together to help work on counting aspect 13:38:27 agenda+ User-generated content review 13:50:58 sajkaj has joined #silver 13:51:17 zakim, who's here? 13:51:17 Present: jeanne 13:51:19 On IRC I see sajkaj, RRSAgent, Zakim, jeanne, Jemma, MichaelC, join_subline, ChrisLoiselle, Rachael, alastairc, Joshue108, AWK, jcraig 13:51:31 present+ 13:58:43 Chuck has joined #silver 13:58:56 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver 13:59:38 Lauriat has joined #silver 13:59:41 agenda? 13:59:47 Present+ 14:01:09 ToddLibby has joined #silver 14:01:37 agenda? 14:01:40 present+ 14:01:58 scribe: Suzanne_Taylor 14:02:01 present+ 14:02:06 present+ 14:02:20 scribe: SuzanneTaylor 14:02:21 JF has joined #silver 14:02:27 Present+ 14:02:38 Zakim, take up item 1 14:02:38 agendum 1 -- EO WG Survey -- taken up [from jeanne] 14:02:39 Makoto has joined #silver 14:02:39 agenda? 14:02:55 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jul/0047.html 14:02:56 present+ 14:03:17 Shawn: Is there more context for this one? 14:03:44 Jenanne: EO has an ongoing project to build new resources including videos that they want to make sure are accurate and applicable to both WCAG 2 and 3 14:03:46 bruce_bailey has joined #silver 14:03:47 q+ 14:03:53 present+ 14:04:03 Jeanne: So they are grateful for contributions from this group 14:04:21 s/Jenanne/Jeanne 14:04:33 ack sajkaj 14:05:10 Janina: I wanted to suggest that we consider how these will work with our understanding documents while reviewing 14:05:53 Janina: it does not need to be just text 14:05:55 Jeanne: Yes, we plan to fully integrate EO 14:06:05 Shawn: plus one to that 14:06:12 Zakim, take up next item 14:06:12 agendum 2 -- TPAC APA Joint Meetings -- taken up [from jeanne] 14:06:29 https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2021 14:06:45 Janina: 14:07:26 Janina: We are still organizing this page, but I will run through the list of the meeting we currently plan to have 14:07:46 Francis_Storr has joined #silver 14:07:56 Janina: APA has 4 taskforces (with varying activity level for TPAC) 14:07:57 present+ 14:08:56 Janina: TPAC is fully virtual and will run for 3 weeks 14:09:32 Janina: the first week various groups gather, the second week has more intensive working sessions, 14:10:24 Janina: on the Wednesday of the second week, we have a general plenary for everybody, and mostly through the day you can drop into breakout sessions, so we may want to plan some of the presentations 14:10:33 https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process/Drafts/#registries 14:11:04 Janina: APA meet with ePub about registries 14:11:28 Janina: Michael, do you know the status on this? 14:11:56 Michael: they likely processing comments now, but I would be surprised if it does not go in, we can begin with drafts 14:12:44 Janina: the idea is to promote unity across specifications for definitions, terminology and values 14:13:40 Janina: we might want to use registries to make facts about accessibility discoverable, such as filtering on only media with a11y features 14:13:44 q+ is Registries the way that WAI is discussing doing a common Glossary? 14:14:02 q+ to ask if Registries the way that WAI is discussing doing a common Glossary? 14:14:12 q- 14:15:11 just to note that our specs (Recommendations) already routinely reference other documents. https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#references 14:15:15 Janina: There will also be a proposed TPAC breakout session on creating a central glossary for WAI or W3C 14:16:14 qv? 14:16:23 Janina: There may also be a meeting on whether or not current APIs are adequate for current and future a11y needs. For example, without registries, pronunciation may not be implemented. 14:16:58 Janina: Also 2 intro meetings 14:18:51 Janina: there are a variety of recommendation track specifications to cover in these meetings 14:19:15 Janina: in additional COGA and Personalization will meet 14:19:53 Janina: to be more aware of eachothers work, this will be open to anyone interested 14:20:55 Janina: The Research Questions Taskforce has a number of user requirements documents to be discussed: Real Time Communications, XR, and FPWD Synchonization 14:22:16 q+ to ask for ideas of the groups Silver wants to meet with 14:22:28 Janina: There is a standing agreement with CSS to meet every year 14:22:32 https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/video-examples 14:22:42 Janina: this year, we'll dicuss media queries 14:23:28 Janina: at the URL can see what is currently addressed by media queries and additional potential 14:23:47 Janina: this is an open meeting. Let me know if you have further topics to discuss with CSS 14:25:33 Janina: I'm also proposing we might wish to meet with HTML-developing groups to try to get the browser technology to address some of the guidelines like flashing and auto-play audio 14:26:12 Janina: We also need to chat with Internationalization, to resolve an open issue on Personalization 14:26:44 Jeanne: I'm setting up a wiki page for Silver to list meetings we'd like to have 14:27:41 Janina: Silver topics: Third party conversation, AGWG charter (expires *next* TPAC) 14:27:48 ack jeanne 14:27:49 jeanne, you wanted to ask for ideas of the groups Silver wants to meet with 14:28:10 Jeanne: Any ideas from Janina's list, your own subgroups, etc? 14:28:36 Jeanne: definitely we should meet with EO for help on writing the How-tos 14:28:49 Jeanne: Should we meet with COGA? 14:28:52 PeterKorn has joined #silver 14:28:55 present+ 14:29:02 q+ to suggest groups we'd want to have writing methods 14:29:30 Janina: perhaps the meeting with COGA and Personalization will be enough? 14:30:03 Jeanne: Yes, it would be great for Silver folks to attend, but we might want our own to get COGA's help on writing new guidelines 14:30:36 +1 to ePub mtg. 14:30:39 Jeanne: Should we meet with EPUB? We do want to start including EPUB related guidelines 14:31:01 Epub have their own "accessibility" sub-group (Avneesh from Daisy is the chair AFAIK) 14:31:26 Shawn: We should meet with groups who may help with writing methods. We won't be able to write it all ourselves. 14:31:30 ack me 14:31:30 Lauriat, you wanted to suggest groups we'd want to have writing methods 14:32:58 Rachael: Perhaps we should have a session introducing the method template for all of the groups that might help 14:33:01 +1 to Rachael 14:33:42 present+ 14:33:51 suzanne: We should talk about that one, but also Children's Accessibility Community Group. We haven't had our first meeting yet. Just email discussions. 14:34:11 suzanne: We'll want people from that group stop in or come into the overview meetings. To let them know about the topics and discussions. 14:34:47 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/TPAC_2021_Meeting_Overview 14:34:54 Jeanne: for those who are interested, here is what I have so far ^ 14:35:29 Jeanne: thank you for all of this info Janina 14:35:31 Zakim, take up next item 14:35:31 agendum 3 -- Getting a group together to help work on counting aspect -- taken up [from jeanne] 14:36:25 q+ to ask "counting" def? 14:36:34 What do you mean by 14:36:44 Shawn: There have been many discussions on counting (test results and scoring) and it seems it needs dedicated attention 14:36:46 q- 14:36:46 Got it 14:37:06 counting can also be gamed easily 14:37:31 Jeanne: Tester feedback is that the counting to reach a score will be time consuming 14:37:46 Present+ 14:38:02 Jeanne: So please email Jeanne if you are interested in joining this new subgroup 14:38:41 Janina: Can bring in AWGW 14:39:04 Zakim, take up next item 14:39:04 agendum 4 -- User-generated content review -- taken up [from jeanne] 14:39:04 what about "just don't count"? 14:39:09 Jeanne: But would prefer to develop this in Silver first 14:39:19 s/AWGW/AGWG 14:39:29 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/User_Generated_Content 14:39:34 JF, that is certainly a possible recommendation 14:39:46 +1, good to include in the exploration! 14:40:03 agenda? 14:40:17 Janina: In the Conformance Options Subgroup, we have been working on User Generated Content, there is one wiki page 14:40:37 Janina: but that page holds text designed to be placed in numerous locations 14:42:31 Janina: Some professionals write poor alt text, so perhaps the average user will not be able to write good alt text 14:42:33 q+ 14:42:50 +1 to Janina: there is "mechanisms" and there is "editorial" 14:42:51 Janina: perhaps AI should try to help with this 14:43:08 q? 14:43:08 qv? 14:43:27 I will scribe for Suzanne 14:43:33 while she is in conversation 14:43:58 ack SuzanneTaylor 14:44:21 suzanne: It's true that... we see bad alt text written when people try to get lowest price for legacy alt text. Often because that alt text has context. 14:44:43 suzanne: Usually context will be provided, but there's a lot that has to be gone through, lots of perspectives in mind, etc. 14:44:59 suzanne: Often it becomes too long or the image is an example and they will describe concept and not example. However... 14:45:19 Q+ 14:45:30 suzanne: average person online for social media.... I suggest rather than one use case have a specific social media use case. A person can write good alt text if they are given time. 14:45:54 suzanne: If you take a look at social media (which has largest alt text issues), most of that is very informal. Not appropriate for large department to change that text. 14:46:22 suzanne: It MAY not be appropriate. Let's say you have an impolite person talking with an impolite person, that alt text could be obnoxious. I don't know we should take any.... 14:46:48 +1 to any attempt to evaluate "quality" 14:46:52 suzanne: dangerous to get into a place where we are looking at content. May not be good idea. Another issue is that you can ask questions. 14:47:00 suzanne: Asking questions, generating more posts is a plus. 14:47:26 suzanne: There's very different contexts. Pulling out user generated contexts is fantastic. We can look at where it's different. 14:48:02 suzanne: Even a checklist for quality alt text should be different. A 5th grader could provide less quality alt text than a professional, but may be appropriate for that group. 14:48:22 Janina: I think in the main we are very much in agreement 14:48:28 isn't it typo in "is taking advantage of the latest in computer vision" like vision to version? 14:48:57 suzanne: Helpful to have it? 14:49:03 Janina: Where? Which document? 14:49:11 Q? 14:49:18 Janina: There's many different docs and parts of doc. Where should we put the use cases? 14:49:24 Examples could go into the "Examples" tab of various guidelines. 14:49:30 Sorry, of various methods. 14:49:43 suzanne: Should be considered. Right now proposal points to old guidance and checklist. I think what makes good alt text on social media is different than other use cases. 14:50:07 Janina: That section is not ready to be advanced, it's being rewritten. Will all be replaced? 14:50:15 q+ to speak to this 14:50:23 suzanne: The proposal doesn't suggest that alt text for social media might have a different set of standards. 14:50:33 Janina: That's exactly where we are going. 14:50:33 agenda? 14:50:41 ack JF 14:51:12 JF: Personally I have a real concern about "social media" we don't even have a definition for that 14:51:35 +1 jf 14:51:38 ack PeterKorn 14:51:38 PeterKorn, you wanted to speak to this 14:51:44 JF: we have to be really really careful that we are not chiseling this down too small; thinking about social media may not be right way to have the conversation 14:52:23 s/+1 jf in expanding the scope of target with user generated content 14:52:33 qv? 14:52:37 PeterKorn: The granular details about how to judge and score will go in the methods; there is a tab for examples, which could have this type of information 14:53:05 I love this user generated content! 14:53:30 it includes helps/assistance aspect of accessibility 14:53:38 Thank you Jemma! 14:53:41 PeterKorn: We will be further polishing and bringing this back to AGWG 14:54:02 Janina: We might be back here next Friday with a little more polished document 14:54:05 Joys of using speech recognition... 14:54:53 maybe add hyphen ? 14:55:09 "taking advantage of the latest in computer vision and machine learning tools " 14:55:14 computer vision -> computer-vision 14:55:47 just hyphens to help parse 14:56:04 Shawn: Other questions or comments? 14:56:29 computer vision appoach? 14:56:46 or machine vision and machine learning 14:57:12 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=vision+and+machine+learning+tool&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart 14:57:35 sayonara! 14:57:53 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/error-prevention-July-21/ <- Error Prevention 14:58:14 Jeanne: Please complete these 2 surveys 14:58:18 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ACT-method-proposal/ <- ACT proposal for new Method structure 14:58:34 rrsagent, make minutes 14:58:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/23-silver-minutes.html jeanne 15:01:00 regrets+ Wilco, Azlan 15:01:05 rrsagent, make minutes 15:01:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/23-silver-minutes.html jeanne 15:03:43 ToddLibby has left #silver 15:20:09 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver 17:28:41 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver 17:29:24 SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver 17:58:04 join_subline has joined #silver