15:00:55 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:00:55 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-tt-irc 15:00:57 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:00:58 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:03:06 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/193 15:03:27 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2021/07/08-tt-minutes.html 15:03:30 scribe: nigel 15:03:42 Present: Andreas, Mike, Pierre, Nigel 15:03:51 Regrets: Gary, Atsushi 15:04:06 nigel has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/193 15:04:46 Topic: This meeting 15:04:56 Nigel: Today we have IMSC HRM strategy and comms 15:05:14 .. and the TTML2 issue on the agenda has since been closed by merging the pull request. 15:05:19 atai has joined #tt 15:05:23 .. Is there any other business? 15:05:46 .. [hears no other business] 15:05:53 .. Then let's proceed. 15:06:00 Topic: IMSC HRM Strategy and Comms 15:06:25 pal has joined #tt 15:07:11 Nigel: Members have been emailing on the member-only reflector following 15:07:21 mike_ has joined #tt 15:07:28 .. my first and second drafts of comms to go out about the HRM. 15:08:37 .. Thanks for the good discussion, let's see if we can converge. 15:09:21 .. Probably its worth going back to the top and thinking what we want from these comms, 15:09:27 .. since there are pulls in slightly different directions. 15:10:17 .. I thought that we wanted to tell the world that we are working on the HRM specification 15:10:29 q+ 15:10:55 .. due to implementer feedback, and inviting anyone else interested to participate. 15:11:07 .. Are there other goals, or are they the wrong ones? 15:11:23 Mike: I have reservations about giving the impression that the HRM in IMSC 1.0.1 is in some way imperfect or unstable. 15:11:27 ack at 15:11:42 Andreas: I checked on the minutes from last meeting and I think the main part of our discussion 15:11:56 .. was about how to deal best with the HRM and the different IMSC versions, and how to streamline or out-factor it, 15:12:01 .. and get a better publication strategy. 15:12:16 .. Then we noted at the end that possibly there is a bit of feedback missing on how the HRM is used in general, 15:12:24 .. then the idea came to invite people to look at it. 15:12:38 .. I think the main idea was to get some feedback on how it is used, in whatever way. 15:12:50 .. Maybe we need to refine it a bit based on the discussion, how big we want to make this issue. 15:13:08 .. We could take Pierre's approach of saying "please use it, there's a real world application", and let 15:13:15 .. us know if there are real world impacts. 15:13:25 .. I also liked your proposal Nigel to explain what the HRM is. 15:13:44 .. But this also does not have to happen now; as Pierre noted we are not yet sure what direction it takes. 15:13:53 .. And maybe make a bigger thing out of it later. 15:14:57 Nigel: Straw poll: based on the discussion, please could you say with a +1 if you think comms are still a good idea, -1 if not? 15:15:28 +1 15:15:31 +1 15:15:33 +1 15:15:40 +1 15:15:51 Nigel: OK, we're all still in favour, so let's get the message right. 15:16:30 .. What to do? Edit the text directly. 15:16:36 Mike: Let's list what we want. 15:16:49 .. It's important to announce that there's an implementation of the HRM, because that's what's driving this. 15:16:57 .. And invite people to comment, and use it, and provide feedback. 15:17:16 .. I think that's sufficient, but (apologies for not making many meetings) I understand that there's interest in TTWG 15:17:25 .. in an activity to look more closely at the HRM, and I think that's okay. 15:17:42 .. The tutorial material is good, but we shouldn't lead with it, because a lot of people probably don't know what an HRM is, 15:17:47 .. as evidenced by the email exchange. 15:18:07 .. I would stop short of document structure, specific issues, what may or may not happen in 1.1 vs 1.0.1 - I think we need 15:18:10 +1 15:18:12 .. to stay away from that right now. 15:18:18 q+ 15:18:23 ack at 15:18:45 Andreas: I would agree with what Mike says. The minimal communication I think is already reflected 15:18:59 .. in Pierre's proposal. That's the shortest thing you can do now. 15:19:18 .. Then later, I'm not sure if we are missing feedback to get a better idea what to do 15:19:26 .. to develop or fix the HRM or whatever. 15:19:37 .. Apart from this announcement, which I think Pierre's proposal would be a good one, 15:19:54 .. if we later then decide to make changes on it or out-factor it, then it would be a good idea to go into more detail, 15:20:07 .. say it's out there, ask for feedback. That could be in the second stage. 15:22:11 Nigel: Pierre, the thrust of your draft is to request feedback based on experience of using your open source 15:22:30 .. implementation on real documents. Is the goal of your implementation to be a reference implementation? 15:22:47 Pierre: The intent is to match the specification. If someone else had an implementation with different results then we'd want to know that. 15:28:38 Nigel: Just covering other points in the thread, I have the end state in mind - we're here to work on specification changes, 15:29:01 .. so under W3C Process, I need to have a path towards getting any spec changes to Rec, in the long run. 15:29:15 .. Gathering information is good, in so far as it helps us understand where the spec issues are. 15:29:42 Mike: Can we return to the comms? 15:30:01 Pierre: Agree, and also want to return to the comms. 15:30:37 Nigel: Is there anything else we need to gather as a goal before looking at the comms text? 15:30:52 Mike: The comms should not imply or state that there's anything necessarily wrong or unstable with the HRM. 15:31:37 Nigel: Agree with the goal. 15:34:41 Nigel: Let's work on the doc together. [shares text editor on screen] 15:44:21 .. [group works on the text directly] 15:44:30 .. I've emailed that as a response to the thread. 15:44:52 .. By the way I've also contacted the Comms team, but haven't had a response yet. 15:45:19 .. Any last thoughts, or stuff that we've forgotten to cover, on this topic? 15:45:38 Pierre: Looks good. Looking forward to feedback. 15:45:56 Nigel: I'll allow a little more time for any other members to comment, and then 15:46:05 .. get this published as soon as I have a response from the Comms team. 15:46:55 Topic: AOB - TPAC 15:47:17 Nigel: If we do get feedback on HRM, could it be a good topic for TPAC? 15:47:48 Pierre: Trying not to get on my soapbox - let's deal with issues as they come in rather than looking for reasons for meetings at TPAC. 15:49:21 Nigel: Right, the list we have now is not hugely compelling, and we can deal with issues any time. 15:49:58 Topic: Meeting close 15:50:12 Nigel: We've completed our agenda, let's wrap it up there, thanks for all your contributions everyone. 15:50:19 .. [adjourns meeting] 15:50:24 rrsagent, make minutes 15:50:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:51:45 Chair: Nigel 15:55:59 rrsagent, make minutes 15:55:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:56:26 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:56:32 zakim, end meeting 15:56:32 As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Mike, Pierre, Nigel 15:56:33 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 15:56:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-tt-minutes.html Zakim 15:56:37 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:56:41 Zakim has left #tt